Trump signs executive order to stop family separations at border

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Xenogears
The unborn, as in those not even conceived, they are not real people, stopping them from existing is not exterminating anything. You can't exterminate nothingness.

See your position is based on a morality question of when life begins. At birth or at conception.

Basing this type of position on how a person thinks / perceives is a non starter and will never work in the manner you think it will. Does it include perfectly healthy people who are in comas? Car accidents? Genetic disease that hit after 50 years of life?

The Nazis made the exact same argument in their Eugenics program and if we look solely at the thought process it started out specific and then branched out to suit the needs of the state to control the people. This started out as their T-4 program, which murdered people with mental disorders, genetic defects etc and spiraled into something that should never be repeated.

We fought 1 world war that cost the live of more than 50 million people, with a large chunk of that revolving around the murder of certain individuals whom the Nazi state decided were subhuman.

I am not the best person to debate this with as I vehemently oppose the ability of the state to decide who lives and who dies based solely the morality of people in power. Any argument to the contrary tells me we didnt learn a fu**ing thing from World War 2.

No I think until nervous tissue capable of consciousness is not there it is not a person. Such tissue even if dormant or inactive constitutes the basis of personhood. Theoretically alternate substrates with similar capacity may also constitute.

I say conception, because some people think a fertilized egg is a person, and a single cell can be a person. By putting conception, not even they can argue against it.

Again I used conception precisely so it could not be argued that killing embryos is killing people. If they are not even conceived, not even embryos, you are not killing anything.


The reality cannot be escaped, there are finite resources. Which demand a finite population. This is understood by natural selection, by evolution, which is why all the cells in your body have their reproduction properly regulated. The more we lower the death rate, by curing diseases, aging, accidents, homicides, the MORE WE MUST INEVITABLY LOWER BIRTH RATE.

Lack of regulation works fine and dandy so long as enough die naturally, and no fraction reproduces excessively generation upon generation. But welfare finances and incentivices reproduction. What do you think happens if even a small fraction reproduces vigorously generation upon generation? That's right exponential growth, and ask any biologist what the result of exponential growth with finite resources is.

I will add Bezos expects the resources of the solar system to allow for Trillion plus population, which would push the need for regulation well into the future, but even the solar system has a carrying capacity.

That said many futurists do seem to forget that space is an extremely hostile environment. Vacuum, Extreme temperatures, and Radioactivity. Probes have worked for significant time, but for how long? Doubtful they can last more than a few decades at most. Replacing everything in space every couple of decades is likely unviable. Without significant shielding or self-repair most anything put there will break down.

Still there is hope that future complex machinery can work there for significant time. But as said that will require technological revolution. Which again requires high IQ individuals, not low IQ individuals who fail and persecute them like a mob for their success, as happened in germany with the jew conspiracies of the nazis.