Stop the Bleed' Classes Come in Response to Mass Shootings

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Cygnis

A little bit of knowledge can go a long way at saving one more person.

A "little bit of knowledge" can do more harm than good.

But okay, have a by stander call 911 while you tie a tourniquet around somebody's neck to stop bleeding from the mouth, nose and eyes.

If you aren't smart enough to get 911 on the horn to advise first, good luck to the person you treat with that 'little bit of knowledge'.

Wow, intrptr, you are really rather bitter about this whole ordeal of helping someone in need.

Why don't you run along and go play in the street if you don't have anything constructive to say, it might soften your disposition.

Some of us are actually smart enough and do have the training to help those in need.

CPR + First aid classes also teach basic tourniquet use, so you too can be handier then another tool playing with their phone, probably videotaping it.

a reply to: Excallibacca

i COULD write a big list - that would get very technical and pedantic - but the one item you dont list - that would make the biggest impact [ my opinion - given your stated motives ] :

ACS dressing

and the training to know how to apply and maintain it

just one last comment an NPA ??

a reply to: BlueJacket

i carry CELOX [ other heamostatic dressings // treatments are availiable ]

my point ?

IF i apply it - its logged on the patient care sheet AND specifically mentioned at the handover . lastly - the empty packet goes with the patient

the reason - the are [ as stated ^ ] several different products - that have different actions - and need different resonse by hospital staff

so - thats why they get an empty packet - with the patient - and cascare notes

thus - no doubt as to what has been done pre hospital - or what the correct response is

just my opinion

just my opinion on this

but there are 4 " main " places where you dont want blood to be going in a trauma casualty :

1 - floor

2 - bones

3 - chest

4 - abdemon

NB - i have not listed " head " deliberately

feild solutions to manage 3 and 4 are difficult - to put it mildly

and # 2 - can be hard to diagnose - esp it often combines with #1

a reply to: Cygnis

CPR + First aid classes also teach basic tourniquet use

I kind of doubt it. I took a health care provider first aid class maybe 2 years ago and they were adamant about not using a tourniquet.

I asked if someone had lost a part of their limb if it would then be advisable. NOPE.
I don't agree with it, but I don't think they're teaching that in the more basic classes. My class lasted a quarter, so it wasn't just 4 hours or anything.

a reply to: Domo1

This is a new line of thinking, especially after the Las Vegas shooting incident.

So, no, probably not something you would have run across before the recent turnabout in thinking.

I suppose I should have mentioned this was "an update to the old methods".

The article was limited but worth considering.

Sure, sure, we've all been taught one thing, but things change.

Consider the old "Eggs are bad." "Wait, no we were wrong, eggs are good!" "Wait, again, egg whites are good, yolks are bad".

I think many, many things are far from settled, but when seconds and minutes count, doing something to help is better than nothing? Sure the idea of shoving a shirt you've worn all day into a wound is kind'a gross to think about with all the germs and whatnot, but is it better to let them just bleed out on the floor 'cuz "I didn't have anything sterile to stuff in the wound" or "They said not to use a tourniquet in my first aid class 'cuz it might cost someone their limb" going to sit well in your conscious when it very well could have saved their life?

Sure, they're likely going to get an infection, or possibly have lost the limb, and at the least have some nerve damage from the tourniquet if it's on too long, but I think most people on the receiving end of life-saving efforts would be grateful, even if missing an appendage.

I know I wouldn't have a problem with it, if it meant I got to go home again.

Before the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the use of tourniquets in medicine had fallen out of favor. "Tourniquets to control extremity bleeding were not used, and best practice was that they shouldn't be used," said Rasmussen. But new evidence changed the practice: Military health professionals saw early on that patients on whom tourniquets were used were more likely to survive their injuries.

Source

I am amused at how roughly I am being shot down by many of you for this.

It's almost like we're arguing over the world being a sphere, or flat.

Another article!

Please go on and tell me that I'm wrong, and the concept will kill people.

Go on and tell me that this is bad, and just call 911 and be a moron and wait for the "professionals" to arrive.

Some of you, I really hope are never in a situation where someone's life is in your hand, because you are severely lacking in the capacity to think on your feet, and you will likely let someone die.

Bolding is mine.

Although the training is good for any emergency where someone is bleeding heavily, incidents like the Las Vegas shooting have made one thing very apparent: When the need for medical attention is widespread, first responders may be too late to help a victim.

“Vegas really really hit home how many people could get injured in such a short period of time,” said Dr. Robert Madayag, trauma medical director at St. Anthony. “There’s not a city in the country that can respond to everyone that quickly.”

“Stop the Bleed,” a national program started after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, was initiated by the National Security Council Staff and the American College of Surgeons. The classes teach how to identify serious bleeding and stop it until professional medical help arrives.

“Uncontrolled bleeding is the number one cause of preventable death from trauma,” said Robert Hayes, the injury prevention specialist for St. Anthony. “Someone who is bleeding severely can die within five to 10 minutes, and the average first response is seven minutes. That time could be much higher in a mass-casualty situation.”

Source

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Cygnis

CPR + First aid classes also teach basic tourniquet use

I kind of doubt it. I took a health care provider first aid class maybe 2 years ago and they were adamant about not using a tourniquet.

I asked if someone had lost a part of their limb if it would then be advisable. NOPE.
I don't agree with it, but I don't think they're teaching that in the more basic classes. My class lasted a quarter, so it wasn't just 4 hours or anything.

Its still true. Unless you're far away from emergency medical responders, theres a reason they recommend not applying them.

Besides, its unusual to encounter the need for one in the first place. Most triage doesn't involve massive blood loss.
Usually.

a reply to: Cygnis

This is a new line of thinking, especially after the Las Vegas shooting incident.

The notion average people at a concert, at night, under automatic weapons fire, are going to do anything but try and get out of the field of fire, is the same as in combat when an ambush breaks. Everyone dives for cover, first.

I'm so glad you're there to stop, drop and apply tourniquets to the dying while bullets are pinging all around.

You should become a Medic in the army, Uncle Sam needs people like you.

There were people dragging wounded to cover, and others that started basic first aid in vegas.

Its not a hard concept, use bandages if you have them, your own shirt if you must apply direct pressure to the wound. (assuming arm or leg, chest wounds are a different animal)

If that fails, then move on to a tourniquet, unless you have arterial blood spurting out then you move directly to a tourniquet and use some of the victims blood to write the time you applied it to the forehead so first responders will have the information.

That's first aid 101 in the military, everyone should be aware of that depending on the wound the time it takes for the paramedics to arrive is plenty of time for people to bleed out.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Its not a hard concept,

You weren't there either.

a reply to: Cygnis

Sorry, I've been away a few days. Checking PM now.