FLIR Video showing shoot down of F-15S over Yemen

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: intrptr

That was my thought...he looks to have realized the missile was incoming late panicked and went full blast on the throttle while trying to get flares out...doing all the right things but too late...if it had been earlier the afterburner effects wouldn't be as bad and he also could have eased up after having gotten away from the flares.

Maybe he was surprised when he looked back and saw it that close, panicked and did all the wrong things in succession. He could have punched out instead, What happens to captured Saudi Pilots?

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: mightmight
Jesus Christ op, please for the love of God learn how to embed a video!!! even if you do not see the button or are unable to access it, just type the code in brackets, or ask a mod if you are incapable of doing it for whatever technical reason.

I dont understand, whats the problem with clicking on a link?


The lack of Saudi response sure points to the possibility that the plane made it home. Amazing if true.

Kind of ironic this happens in the week that Trump seeks to increase weapons sales to foreign countries. Not that Obama was immune to that either since foreign sales tripled over his two terms.

I don't think the Houthi having a FLIR is a big deal unless that turret is dramatically different from commercial units.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: face23785

Yes, but it's not something that can be done without a lot of training until it becomes second nature.

Which is why when I'd hear people bitching about all that "wasted" money on our fighters flying training every day, I would just shake my head.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: face23785

Yes, but the point here is if the pilot is going to pull 7g's in a break, that isn't sustainable. So he needs more thrust to overcome the higher drag while in the break so he can maintain that high turn rate long enough to get out of the seeker's field of view. The load factor goes up when you pull g's, too, so you have a much higher stall speed than in level flight. So you need more speed to maintain controlled flight. So you have exponentially increasing drag and need more speed to maintain controlled flight all at the same time.
So your question about is it easier to make a sharp maneuver without speeding up, is sort of "no". You need the higher thrust and speed to turn tighter.

Thanks for the explanation.

a reply to: gariac



Whats interesting about the FLIR system is even though lets just say that its a COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) sensor and turret system, they are still highly export restricted from the USA, which begs the question, who helped procure these for the "rebels".

These kind of conflicts are the bread and butter for defense contractors.... an opportunity to up-arm, or arm both sides, in a slow escalation until one either runs out of money or is defeated. Trump loves this kind of stuff, trickle down economics for the MIC, whoever wins or loses, we always do (money wise).

This is tough for the pilot. In my experience, the Saudi's didn't take their training all that seriously, but they have a real world threat now, so we'll see how they do.

In this case, the pilot selects afterburner about 5 seconds before impact. That's not much. Also, he doesn't maneuver, so I'm guessing, he didn't see the missile. There are some clear, easy things to do if you see a missile. The fact that he doesn't maneuver makes me believe he was told about the launch by some other info source, likely a wingman.

His flare rate is slow and his level flight, combined with AB makes me think he has almost zero SA to what was happening and got nailed.

I can assure you that if my wingman told me a missile was inbound, and my RWR gear was quiet, that I'd be pumping out flares much much faster than that. I'd be wigging out and jamming that button like I'm playing the final stage of Space Invaders.

That was my thought. He knew there was a missile but did not have eyes on it but he was banking as though looking for it. He may have been dumping chaff as well but it would be hard to see in the video.

I didn't see anything in the video that indicated he was trailing fuel or fire so he may have gotten lucky but thte video doesn't follow long enough to really know.

The pics of the pylon and missiles may have been the result of them being jettisoned. Though I don't think the AIM-9 usually is dumped. Could have been that the wing stations were hit.

a reply to: Flipper35

The pylon and missile were from a couple years ago (or early last year). That was the last time they claimed to have downed an F-15.

The AIM-9 sits on the external fuel tank pylon, above the tank. If you jettison the tank, the entire pylon goes with it, including the missiles.

originally posted by: BoutThere
Whats interesting about the FLIR system is even though lets just say that its a COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) sensor and turret system, they are still highly export restricted from the USA, which begs the question, who helped procure these for the "rebels".

The latest updates are saying that the FLIR shown was 1 of the 3 FLIR's sold to the Yemen as part of their Huey II upgrades....from 2009.

FLIR Ultra 8500 with CCD Camera option. A unit designed primarily for police. Which would make it all above board for how the Houthi's obtained it. Granted, no one has yet to provide any evidence that the order was completed...so, I doubt we will ever know with absolute certainty.

a reply to: BoutThere

People go to jail for acting as middle man to get around export restrictions all the time, but who knows the percentage that are actually caught.

dual use

The other thing to consider is dual use technology. FLIR (the company, not the technology) sells EMCCD which competes with the long wave IR, but is relatively common these days. The enemy* can get these and roll there own tracker with a few servo motors and a couple of beagle bones. The same EMCCD can be used in biological research.

*One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist

a reply to: peck420

It was done through the Foreign Military Sales office. The type of sale they did it as is done as an internal Pentagon purchase and transfer so they're not required to document delivery, unlike the normal FMS requirements. They occasionally do it that way with relatively small purchases so they can be completed faster.

a reply to: gariac

This was done through the Pentagon to the government of Yemen before the civil war.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Zaphod,

Being an Internal Petagon purchase, does this preclude it from the proper oversight and reduced technical specifications that a product or technology may undergo as being sold through FMS?

Could weapons, manpads, and other military hardware go under the same guise in order to quickly and effectively arm a side?

a reply to: BoutThere

No, it still has to clear State and the export controls. The difference is that if they go through the usual channels, FMS goes something like 3 years before they sign the contracts. Doing it this way, they order everything and have it on hand to deliver once it gets clearance.

On a normal FMS schedule, the buying nation goes to the Pentagon with a list of equipment. They send that on to State, who reviews it and approves or denies equipment on it. Then it goes to Congress, who approves or denies it and sends it to the President. Once he signs it, they can negotiate with the manufacturer of whatever they want to but. All told you can look at 5 years just to get to negotiations if someone drags their feet.

Under a pseudo FMS sale, it still goes through the approvals, but it's usually for equipment such as the FLIR cameras, so approval is more or less a rubber stamp process. Since it's going to be approved, the Pentagon buys it, and either has it shipped to the customer, with a bill, or sent to a holding area and ship it on once everything is done.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Considering the persistent export of technology to these foreign groups/governments, will this push the Saudi Government to spend even more money on offensive/defensive countermeasures and or training.

www.thedrive.com... talked about it and has links to futher news articles.

Apparently newer photos have been passed around indicating that the only wreckage found was from an external pylon, external fuel tank, and attached missile.

No wing spar, or debris from what would definitely be a sizable and easy photo'd crash site.

No word on pilot as of yet, however it is such a tight lipped civil war between the two, that were probably not going to hear much unless they release photos in the coming days

a reply to: BoutThere

That's the first thing you're going to do after a hit. You get rid of all the drag you can, so pylons and tanks are gone. ThisI is at least the second time they've claimed an F-15 and only showed "wreckage" of what the pilot would jettison.

I can assure you that if my wingman told me a missile was inbound, and my RWR gear was quiet, that I'd be pumping out flares much much faster than that. I'd be wigging out and jamming that button like I'm playing the final stage of Space Invaders.

My thoughts exactly,plus pumping G to see where the heck it was coming from..No word on Manpad used yet?
The Australian Defence Force had a lot of pressure after PNG got ex Australian Army Hugheys for "humanitarian" use where they converted them to Gunships for anti Rebel control..