The Existential Millennial Struggle

I will admit my OP was rather vague and generalized, but this was intentional, as my own experiences are only one of many paths to our widespread mental health issues of today. I dug down to the bare feelings and emotions that I have felt, wondering if they would resonate with others. And it seems in some cases it has, and in some cases it has not. But that is ok. That is why we are having this discussion.

When I speak of problems with the system, I think the post below does a fine job detailing these problems that I have noticed. What I explained as disconnectedness, he has spelled out more specifically.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What we live today is not freedom, it is bondage to the economy and those in power. We give our kids to complete strangers 5 days a week to raise them for us while we work our 9-5 jobs, society has completely ruined the family structure and has replaced it with state-sanctioned indoctrination and slavery with schools and jobs.

I don't know if there is any way of fixing it short of reverting back to our indigenous roots. That's where happiness truly lies, in family and friends. Our current way of life rips us away from those we love for a good portion of our lives and even actively encourages it.

I'm doing my part for myself by making a move to Montana where I can connect with nature and get away from the city. I think on an individual basis a good way to break the spell is by going out and being one with nature. Man has corrupted the world and destroyed it in many places, to reconnect with your higher self you need to leave where man has touched and find where he has yet to lay his hands.

I especially like your comment on needing to connect with nature. In German there is a word, Waldeinsamkeit, for a feeling of solitude, being alone in the woods and a connectedness to nature. I feel like this is an important but often overlooked concept. I believe this may explain why my uncle, after going through panic attacks and depression, moved away from the city and went to live in Maui.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
But community is needed for mental health, so you have to find the balance that fits you.

Absolutely agreed. But our disconnectedness and lack of struggle is preventing the development of communities. I feel it especially in the Army. Those that deployed together often have strong, lasting bonds with each other after spending close to a year around each other every day, sharing in hardship and misery. But those of us that haven't deployed, which is most of us, and almost all of my peers, seem to be unable to connect, no matter how hard we try.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
I am not writing simply about assimilating ever more knowledge upon which to exercise one's faculty of wisdom, but more about the profound philosophical, even ideological changes that occur as one gets older. If there is one thing I perceive to be more lacking in many different societies today, it has to be trust. Trust is the first casualty of polarization. The loss of trust brings about its own unique form of a vacuum, a void that is very hard to fill once it is created.

I think you are spot on about trust. I realized a couple weeks ago I really wasn't trusting anyone. I wasn't able to share the things that were most important to me to the people who were supposed to be closest to me. It took a monumental breakdown and several days of reflection between I looked myself in the mirror and finally admitted to myself that it was my responsibility and no one else's to rebuild trust in my relationships. I can't expect trust if I don't give it.

a reply to: Willtell

Thank you sir. I am slightly disappointed at the lack of commentary on your post, but again, that may be because there is not much to disagree on. I feel you've made a crucial and wise distinction... that freedom is a means, and not an end. I did not think about it that way before, but now that you've said it, it makes sense. I'll need to reflect on this some more.

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
You just have a poor outlook,my kids and many others are excelling at their jobs,just because your not equipped to deal with the real world,others were taught to care and think for themselves,only whiners I see are on TV,try turning it off and applying for a job,does wonders for depression

You have a poor attitude. It's pretty sad that I come here with real issues and you (and several others) want to pretend that these are problems with me, they are MILLENNIAL problems, and you can just blame THEM and deflect any sort of blame or responsibility from yourself. Millennial problems were born out of the generation that raised them. A generation of spiritual freefall, philosophical incoherence, and blind progress.

I sincerely hope you are right and your kids are excelling at their jobs at and not on multiple anxiety medications and snorting coc aine in their free time like half of my generation seems to be.

a reply to: Sahabi

Hello sir. I disagree that you disagree. I actually believe you are supporting exactly what I'm trying to say.

Despite a higher "quality of life" families in our country are more disconnected than ever. I believe as a result of new technology we have also begun to lose our sense of community. These two things, combined with a lack of shared struggle and hardship, are what have caused this huge influx of mental health issues in our society.

My next question then is with the value of a high standard of living. Is it better for your family if you have a lower standard of living and go through some shared struggles, as opposed to having a high standard of living but being disconnected from your family?

My family is incredibly disconnected, and also has an incredibly high rate of mental health issues. Between my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, and siblings, we are living in 8 different states and 2 different countries. About 40% of us have had some sort of mental health issue in the past year that I know of.

When I was a kid, I was always playing outside with the neighborhood kids, and it was normal to just walk into a friend's house and hang out. We had a great sense of community. As I got older, I feel I've lost almost all sense of community with those around me. Perhaps it has to do with technology, or work, or frequent moving, or just something that happens as you get older. But I know a couple people from "the hood," and even though I'm not exactly one of them, something curious happens when I go there. I feel a sense of community with these people who are barely making enough to get by; most of them have been to prison, they often have dysfunctional families, and they barely even know me. But when I'm there I can feel the sense of community like I did when I was a kid.

Anyways, you said you work on generation gap bridging. What exactly does that entail? That sounds interesting.

a reply to: Wang Tang

The loss of community is because of modernization, secularization, and economic and cultural inequalities, imo, not necessarily technology.


Religion is no longer respectable nor accepted in the secular age, and rightly so since it has become anachronistic and predatory.


Families traditionally have merged around cultural identity with religion or nationality.

That’s been entirely wiped out in America for better or worse, so were going through that change


That doesn’t mean there aren’t pockets still of positive and thriving people( which Sahabi highlights) here and there but in macro western civilization is at a crossroads, and some of what you say is the reason for that, but your missing the comprehensive reason.

You’ve got one pear from the bush, you need to look at the whole tree

Western civilization needs a new spiritual or ethical paradigm or it will lead the world probably to destruction.


Were running on the wings of predatory capatilism and its last gasp for air as the old colonial countries catch up.

However, they won’t save humanity because they have been too engrained in materialism: China and India

And the old great spiritual tradition in India has become like in the west, predatory, anachronistic and corrupt.

China has become too secularized so they will be of little help.

Solution is for people to seek individual help for themselves however means they can.

What may spring from that is a new revelation, a new Einstein, A new Davinci, a new Christ, a new Buddha, a new Muhamamd, a new Newton, a new Tesla...etc..


Wang is right, mental illness is rampant and not being dealt with


The phase was going through has devastated families in the millions, he and I are testimony to this.


Right now all one can do is

Save yourself!


Then

Time

WillTell

originally posted by: Willtell
Western civilization needs a new spiritual or ethical paradigm or it will lead the world probably to destruction.

Yes.

Here I go with some more stream of consciousness.

Half of my family has always been a church-going family, the other half has always been secular. Both sides have felt the effects of mental illness equally. I have very little confidence in the church or religion as the spiritual anchor for our society.

Three of my greatest spiritual guides in my life have been an Aikido Sensei, a military chaplain, and a hot yoga instructor. My sensei and yoga instructor are targeted towards a more narrow crowd, but I believe a figure like a military chaplain has great potential as it can appeal to a broader base. The beauty of military chaplains is they don't specifically affiliate with any religion; they are spiritual guides and not religious guides. I have reached great levels of understanding and matured tremendously through my meetings with him.

Can we implement this same concept of a non-religious chaplain outside the military? Yes! Why not? They have a place in both schools and at the workplace. In my experience psychologists are not inherently bad, but they generally treat the symptoms and don't dig deeper into the root of the problem. Again, that is my experience, based on my family, friends, and dealing with the military. I definitely have a generally negative attitude towards psychologists and mental health institutions. It may be different from yours. But I believe the greater need is with chaplains. Psychologists can help in the short term, but if you want to get better for the long term, you need good spiritual guides.

a reply to: Wang Tang

You’re absolutely right. I would recommend to some on a philosophical level the teachings of Integral Spirituality. One popular exponent of this is the one known as “The Einstein of Consciousness, Ken Wilber. integrallife.com...

www.integralworld.net...

Integral Spirituality is a loose movement that was getting big ten years ago.

It’s based on a view of spirituality as a non sectarian idea of getting from all the traditions or any one traditon or any number of them or one of them, the best they offer and each individual practices and uses the methodologies that suits them in time and place.

There's human foibles in this group but you'll find NO sectarian dogma and hatred and division based on sectarianism

You will have Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Sufis, Muslims, Hindus all together seeking enlightenment and unity of purpose—including atheistic philosophers—remember Buddhism is non theistic.

But please, a recommendation to anyone is if you need psychological counseling, please go get it. It’s no shame in seeking help.

I too am from a broken family, and I mean broke, and have come up on the rough side of the fence.

So we all may need help from time to time

a reply to: Willtell

Thank you for the references, I have no doubt I will be digging into this in the next week.

As for psychological counseling, I will always have a cynical view. Perhaps it is the rampant liberal use of medications to "fix" psychological issues. There is no shame, but there is danger. They weaken our internal coping mechanisms by making us rely on medications to get us through the day. And then when the problems get worse, these so called psychological experts have the nerve to suggest we should increase the dosage? Just for a couple months they say. A couple months go by. Just a year, they say.

And when they take her off medication, she commits suicide.

I have seen variations of this story play out too many times, and now it is starting to overwhelm my family. I believe in most cases, it is not depression, but the medication that kills. I realize it is not the psychological counseling that is bad, but the fact that these professionals have been given the power to liberally hand out medications before they properly diagnose the root of the problem. It encourages lazy work. Psychologists aren't charged when their clients commit suicide, but in my mind they are the most responsible party. But no one will hold them accountable. And this makes me cynical.

So my advice is don't trust your psychologist. Consider their point of view. But don't let your life or your child's life be ruined by the incompetent or lazy work of a psychologist. Always retain responsibility for helping yourself; medications should be a last resort.

My life has led me to this cynical view after having dealt with too many suicides and attempted suicides in my short life. Please advise me if I am off-based. My experiences certainly have affected my passions and I sometimes worry that I direct my frustration and cynicism in the wrong places.

a reply to: Wang Tang

I agree, though such counseling can be a friend, a righteous cleric, Guru or wise person. An alt health guy like a Gary Null who attacks depression and anxiety from a holistic health angle: vegetarianism, supplements, exercises, positive thinking.

www.amazon.com...

www.iamplify.com...

I have often thought that there seems to be some real value to being able to project parts of ourself outside, to relieve ambiguity and internal conflict.

Like in the case of freedom. Given complete freedom outside, we simply become confined by the limits we set for ourself within. We become our own jailors. We become slaves to our moral sense, our appetites, our drives… It is easier to battle and push against these limits when it is exteriorized. When you have an external entity being that authority or that obstacle, you can be relieved of cognitive dissonance – choose a side.

My parents fought against what they perceived as a rigid and confining social structure, then tried to be parents who gifted their offspring with the freedom to be and create themselves without limit and without expectation. I experienced it as neglect and felt paralyzed in front of a scary and wide world, in which there was no protection or guidance, and one false step could lead to horrible consequences, even death.

I think they watched and wondered – what is wrong with you?? Why don’t you run forth and grab the world? You have it all laid out in front of you with no limits! It’s what I wished I had had as a child! The grass is always greener...

At least I could focus on the challenge of surviving – necessity for food and shelter gave me some direction for action… I can’t imagine how difficult it must be for kids today for whom even that is assured.

Philosophy creates structure of thought and belief. You can create a mental cage which poses the limits, declares what is and why, and how to maneuver within it. It can create reason and motivation. With no one outside imposing such a structure, it is normal and expected that one finds themselves doing this work for themselves, inside.
When a passing moment of curiosity about having a different sex can quickly lead to surgically changing for life, my god, mastering your thoughts and whims is of terrible importance! Scary times indeed.
…and some wonder why doomporn is so popular.

originally posted by: Bluesma
At least I could focus on the challenge of surviving – necessity for food and shelter gave me some direction for action…

Didn't your parents feed you? Didn't your parents put a roof over your head?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Bluesma
At least I could focus on the challenge of surviving – necessity for food and shelter gave me some direction for action…

Didn't your parents feed you? Didn't your parents put a roof over your head?

After the age of ten we had to find food ourselves. The father left when I was 8, the mother at ten.
We had a shelter, but keeping it meant being careful not to expose to others our situation. It was something we had to be concerned about at all times. At eighteen that was no longer available and become a major motivation.

With kids these days who can stay at their parents home after the age of 18, where are they to find much motivation?

a reply to: Bluesma

With kids these days who can stay at their parents home after the age of 18, where are they to find much motivation?

So do you believe that motivation comes from neglect?

I watched a program last night about anorexia and basically these people don't want to grow up because they feel powerless - staying ill they have to be cared for.
Maybe if there is no care - one has to do it or die?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Bluesma

With kids these days who can stay at their parents home after the age of 18, where are they to find much motivation?

So do you believe that motivation comes from neglect?

I watched a program last night about anorexia and basically these people don't want to grow up because they feel powerless - staying ill they have to be cared for.
Maybe if there is no care - one has to do it or die?

I think motivation can come from many different sources. I think that if ones basic necessities for survival are assured, then they can pull motivation from other drives higher up on the scale of needs. (need for belonging, self esteem, self actualization...).

In the case of anorexia, a funny thing is that even while they feel pulled towards this nurture and care,
another common theme is feeling dominated or crushed by a mother.
Love/hate, attraction /repulsion.... slaves to their own desire. A lot of them just claim their mother is overbearing... when they get to the point of acknowledging they sought out to remain powerless (and are not simply victims) that is a big step. But also means the conflict returns within, to cognitive dissonance.

In the past, I have always felt it is better to do this -own it and then you can manage it.
But what I am tentatively suggesting here is that , based upon what I've observed in very extroverted and externally focused people, is that they seem to benefit from projecting things on others. They can act out and "exorcise" things.

You think your "enemy" or obstacle is an outside thing or person, then you can fight it, you can rebel against it, you can get away from it, etc. If you truly believe "it" or "they" was that influence, then you feel it is gone (or beaten, or overcome...)

The question is how permanent is that effect? I am not sure. Maybe you just go on to re-enact the same battles in life over and over with different people or situations. But it sure makes you feel a need to act outwards and not drown in your internal storms alone...

a reply to: Wang Tang

Every generation has their own existential crisis. Each believes they are the most educated. It is usually later that we realize that the generation before us was not near as uneducated as you thought. I often tell to young people and will say that I wish I was half as smart now as I thought I was in my late teens-twenties.

The one thing I hear a lot from the young people of today is how depressing life is when they head out on their own. I believe this has much to do with the fact that the real world is not what many of you where raised to believe it is. There are no awards for just being there. And no one is going to care about your feelings but you. It's your responsibility to maintain your emotional health. It is personal responsibility that many seem to have trouble with today. Because there has always been an environment that strokes the ego when you are young. So it's not a skill many learn till they hare of an understanding that we are responsible for ourselves.

I find it odd that this generation that has access to so much with so little effort has much to be depressed about. Many of you are feeling alone in a world that allows one to be in almost constant contact but it is not used that way. People wall themselves in with mindless fodder when the information of the entire civilized world in vibrating in your pocket telling you that someone liked the post you made about a taco you had for lunch. We live in a world that we create for ourselves. If that world makes one depressed then it is not the world with a problem. It's the problem of the depressed person that takes all they have for granted.

Our lives are only useless if we allow them to be. a life is only wasted if we believe we are wasting it. And it's what we learn after we "know it all" that matters most.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Wang Tang

That is YOUR experience.

I have a lot of young people I work with and know through my daughter and coaching job and most of them are highly successful and doing great. In fact, they are generally motivated and don't spend time obsessing about their 'plight' and instead concentrate on their jobs, relationships and education.

I have helped many of these young people with guidance, cars and money when they need it to give them a head start on life that I never had as a young person.

I think you need to quit feeling sorry for yourself and start living your life.

Are you hearing yourself? "Quit bitching, and be a good slave."
It's too late for you old people. You don't even understand what he is saying. Sad.