Kobe Steel Scandal

For the last week Kobe Steel has been rocked by a scandal going back at least 10 years, involving everything from bullet trains, to aircraft. It initially came out that the Mitsubishi Regional Jet used steel that didn't meet standards, and rapidly spread to other industries. Initially they said it was the aluminum and copper side of the business, but it's spread to steel as well. Kobe says that employees falsified reports to show that materials met customer standards, when it didn't.

So far Airbus hasn't found any suspect parts, but Boeing and Mitsubishi both have. Kobe is involved in making marts for the 777, and composite structures for the 787. They are setting up an external board to monitor the situation, and there are comments that the company could be broken up, or even go under because of this. Their stock has already dropped 40% since this broke.

Kobe Steel Ltd. sank deeper into crisis on Friday as the embattled company said it had lost some customers to competitors because of widespread data falsification that had extended to its mainstream steel sheet business.

Japan's third-largest steelmaker, which supplies the world's top airline and automobile manufacturers, also said it had violated statutory standards set by the industry ministry, pushing the scandal beyond failure to meet specifications agreed with customers.

Until now, the 112-year-old company had said products it sold with falsified data met safety and other standards but did not meet contract specifications agreed with customers. It had also said the problem was mainly with aluminum and copper products.

www.cbc.ca...

I'm waiting to see if these metals show up in other critical applications like nuclear power plants, submarines, rocket engines. The possibilities are endless.

a reply to: CraftBuilder

Probably won't show up in nuclear plants, unless it's in some kind of secondary system, or something minor.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Dumb question,
I was planning a trip to Belize. United offered a first class flight on a 77x 777.
($897.58 usd)

What do the mean by standards?
I'm deathly afraid of flying to begin with. Soooooo the wings and fuselage won't break under stress yes?

Yes I love aviation, but I have issues with hieght.

a reply to: Bigburgh

Well, have you ever heard of wings breaking mid-flight?

a reply to: Bigburgh

Even if the parts used were for the wings and fuselage, the chances of them causing something to happen are so miniscule that it isn't even funny.

a reply to: MysticPearl

Comercial aircrafts no. But a few years back, there was an forestry fire aircraft.. C-130? That the wing came right off. No survivors, But that was a different manufacturer.

aviation-safety.net...

a reply to: Zaphod58

(Phhhewwww) 😥

Load off my mind.

a reply to: Bigburgh

That was also an old aircraft, past the end of its life, being used in a role it wasn't initially designed for.

This makes me wonder why the end user didn't do their own periodic independent metalergic testing, in stead of relying on the manufacturer's internal reporting. In the business I'm in, (high end space rated parts) the end buyer does on site inspections of the parts on a regular basis. It would seem to me that a similar action plan could have prevented or at least shortened the amount of time something like this could have occurred.

a reply to: Sammamishman
even in constrution the concrete is poured into blocks and then tested for it´s rated strength. So I wonder, too why that didn´t happen.

And before I even read that kobe steel was a Japanese company, I wondered if they delivered parts to nuclear power plants and other critical industrial systems, too.

originally posted by: Bigburgh

What do the mean by standards?

chemistry specs
hardness(brinell/rockwell)
mechanical properties(tensile strength. yield strength. elongation)

Aircraft grade aluminium in the 2000 range (notably 2024 series) comprises Copper as one of its elements..It is a general purpose aircraft grade used mainly in skins and low stress structures.
Its pretty much the most used aircraft grade...Looks like a lot of backtracking of release notes is in order..
A lot of bowed heads and dishonor is in order..

originally posted by: Sammamishman
This makes me wonder why the end user didn't do their own periodic independent metalergic testing, in stead of relying on the manufacturer's internal reporting. In the business I'm in, (high end space rated parts) the end buyer does on site inspections of the parts on a regular basis. It would seem to me that a similar action plan could have prevented or at least shortened the amount of time something like this could have occurred.

some of the things i deal with are for aerospace.
everything is laid out in industry standards.

B505 specs dictate this material be evaluated and certified by an outside lab.
i will have to read the entire article to see how and when the falsification happened.

i know in dealing with copper and aluminum bronze all aerospace material gets checked for mechanicals in house but we send them all out to an outside lab for certification.
maybe dealing with steel you dont have to have it certified by an outside lab.

when i worked at the iron foundry the only thing we sent out for outside certs was # for x ray. we certified all our own stuff.

the foundry i am out now sends out all aerospace material but for the rest we certify it ourselves.

i can only speak as to what i have seen but there are many things that can cause # to go wrong. there are so many specifics to it. traceability of the product. this tends to be a problem in a lot of places.

sorry to ramble.

i will read the whole article ow but i think if it is aerospace the material must have been verified by an outside lab.


as far as falsification of data. i am 100% certain this happens more often than people think. i know this for a fact.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
Aircraft grade aluminium in the 2000 range (notably 2024 series) comprises Copper as one of its elements..It is a general purpose aircraft grade used mainly in skins and low stress structures.
Its pretty much the most used aircraft grade...Looks like a lot of backtracking of release notes is in order..
A lot of bowed heads and dishonor is in order..

i dont deal with that material at all.
that material is usually extruded. i work in continuous cast.

for aerospace we deal with AMS 4880 and AMS 4881 though recently we stopped with the 4881 because it was not cost effective and almost impossible to get correct with continuous cast.

He said the Hatano plant did not meet Japanese Industrial Standards for quality management after it faked data on tensile strength and other properties of copper and copper-alloy piping.

boom. tensile strength

the company decided to set up a panel of outsiders, replacing an in-house panel led by the company's president.

outside testing AFTER the whistle blow.

i guess the standards in Japan for steel do not require outside testing.

a reply to: MysticPearl

Yes I have. I did accident investigation photography for the USAF for 10 years and have always been interested in the subject. The wings have failed along the fuselage and the tail. Most times it's either maintenance related or pilot error which caused a structural failure but it does happen. My best,