China moving forward to shut down all Bitcoin exchanges

originally posted by: lightedhype
All it would take is a major government issuing their own, with control of all the nodes, thus being centralized, which while defeating the entire purpose and vision of Satoshi, and then a cryptocurrency with a blockchain would be a fiat.

When this happens, bitcoin or other alts would very likely remain around for channels of official corruption alone let alone actual positive things they offer.

Right. Then you're basically back to square one where you are now which is why I don't see these as a viable long term investment strategy and agree they could be a very large financial bubble.

The thing I don't like about bitcoins is :
-Too much fluctuation in the value. It's not a stable currency, too much risk
-There are a finite amout of bitcoins which has halmarks of a pyramid scheme
-The way new bitcoins are created is inefficient, massive amounts of energy wasted on useless calculations

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: nOraKat
Imagine if governments can no longer create money out of thin air to bail out their favorite banks and corporations? They would not allow that.

To be fair it isn't exactly like Bitcoin is commodity-backed either, most of the Bitcoin mining took place in China as well.

But it is not possible to create bitcoin just like that isn't it? There is a finite number of bitcoins and each is worth dollars or other currency and then there are altcoins which can be exchanged for bitcoins or are worth an amount of bitcoins so those are dependent on bitcoin or not? I mean if all people exchanged currency for bitcoin and altcoin and went on doing business as usual it should work, except for the volatility parts.

“The mining operation owned by a company called TianJia WangLuo located inside BaJiaoQi hydroelectric power plant has over 5,800 mining machines totaling more than 40 petahashes of processing power. The mining yields around 27 coins daily. This plant uses 7,000 units of energy an hour, amounting to 168,000 units of energy (kWh) a day, as the national average cost of electricity is about RMB 0.40 ($0.06) a unit, the cost of electricity for the plant is around RMB 6,720 ($1,000) a day.”

Even though it is simply computing power sold to other countries, it might be too difficult for the Chinese government to administrate these farms? Or maybe the Chinese government will come up with state owned plants or something. Or it's a bandwith issue.

Is this related to the Chinese testing of the petrol benchmark?

Seems like maybe.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

This China business is just a bump in the road. ..Cryptocurrencies aren't going anywhere.

Now I am just as eager to see decentralization as you.

I have a question for you - if every other government does the same thing and bans Bitcoin exchanges, how can it continue to progress (as in further become instituted)?

Also what makes you think any other crypto-currencies would be accepted?

originally posted by: Jubei42
The thing I don't like about bitcoins is :
-Too much fluctuation in the value. It's not a stable currency, too much risk

I don't think this would be the case in the future if it were adopted.

-There are a finite amout of bitcoins which has halmarks of a pyramid scheme

Please explain this.

-The way new bitcoins are created is inefficient, massive amounts of energy wasted on useless calculations

I agree its a waste of energy. Maybe this would not be such a problem with renewable energy. However work in the computer sense turns out to be something like this. Do you have any other ideas?

The mining operation owned by a company called TianJia WangLuo located inside BaJiaoQi hydroelectric power plant has over 5,800 mining machines totaling more than 40 petahashes of processing power. The mining yields around 27 coins daily.

What an astonishing realization. What an ideal situation for renewable power companies to build mining operations right on site.

I guess they will be the ones with all the initial dough.

originally posted by: nOraKat
What an astonishing realization. What an ideal situation for renewable power companies to build mining operations right on site.

I guess they will be the ones with all the initial dough.

There were the ones with the initial dough but that time has passed, mining profits are only going downhill and have for some years and not expected to go up again except maybe for altcoins and solomining. It's still possible to invest and build an asic datacentre (depending on the country with taxes, internet connection, land/building prices) running on wind/solar power but even then it would be an investment and would work until bitcoin becomes unpopular or stops in some way.

There is much concern other countries will do the same as China and a datacentre of asics would be worthless. Buying an asic and setting it up does not require that much time for anyone with some IT experience, the only difficulty is tying the machines together, understanding pools to mine in and how to get the coins in the wallet and exchange/sell it for real money.

Bitcoin isn't a complete waste of energy; it's like a pilot for new technology to see how the world reacts. Blockchain technology is the future, not just for currency because it allows more transparent verification vs centralized, closed relational databases.

I don't think this would be the case in the future if it were adopted.

If all currency were exchanged for bitcoin and altcoins it would be more stable. However, this is not going to happen and is unrealistic. Doesn't matter if it's virtual or physical; the dollar is an object and so is bitcoin, it's just a number representing a score. It's just unrealistic to imagine dropping dollars and euros for bitcoin/altcoins even if it could work and lead to a better world for everyone. Right now it's only for those who already have money; the lucky ones who invested early are just that, lucky. There are still some chances to get rich quick but only for a few by doing the right thing at the right time.

Imagine you own a shop and accept 100 bitcoins from some multimillionaire for a car you would have to sell the bitcoins rightaway or lose money. So with my meager understanding of economics I wonder how bitcoin will ever become adopted as it will never really stay if only those with a lot of money can buy/invest and trade amongst themselves in a group but nothing outside of that. I can easily store a lot of euros/dollars in a bank but not bitcoin as holding on to it might mean losing money. However I can see the use of having a bitcoin system for developing communities who trade amongst themselves, a country could have a viable technology free to use, create their own coin and this might help with corrupt governments or countries in disarray.

There is a cap to bitcoin for reasons but if it is a pyramid scheme or some other plan like inventarizing the worlds money flows, gaining insight in other peoples bank accounts to optimize their own trading, or to catch criminals lured into it thinking it's untraceable and a way to launder money. It is still better than what we currently have, which allows a few individuals to print extra money out of nothing and devalue everyone's money, including their own. Just the transparancy would be better and more fair for everyone, besides resource cost on the longer run.

originally posted by: spliffster
But it is not possible to create bitcoin just like that isn't it? There is a finite number of bitcoins and each is worth dollars or other currency and then there are altcoins which can be exchanged for bitcoins or are worth an amount of bitcoins so those are dependent on bitcoin or not? I mean if all people exchanged currency for bitcoin and altcoin and went on doing business as usual it should work, except for the volatility parts.

There is no possible way to have a gold-back currency, let alone a crypto-currency. Who will hold the gold? Where will it be held?

Even though it is simply computing power sold to other countries, it might be too difficult for the Chinese government to administrate these farms? Or maybe the Chinese government will come up with state owned plants or something. Or it's a bandwith issue.

I think it's more of a control issue and an erosion of the state-run currency.

Lots of big traders are making a fortune off the fud!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: spliffster
But it is not possible to create bitcoin just like that isn't it? There is a finite number of bitcoins and each is worth dollars or other currency and then there are altcoins which can be exchanged for bitcoins or are worth an amount of bitcoins so those are dependent on bitcoin or not? I mean if all people exchanged currency for bitcoin and altcoin and went on doing business as usual it should work, except for the volatility parts.

There is no possible way to have a gold-back currency, let alone a crypto-currency. Who will hold the gold? Where will it be held?

That's not what I meant, I meant a bitcoin is basically worthless data on a drive until someone wants to give 3000 dollars for it, someone else might give 300 and another 3 million. But that is all in dollars, without a dollar, what is a bitcoin, just 1 unit, will the bitcoin become like what gold used to be in relation to a currency so bitcoin the gold and altcoin the actual currency? That's what I'm trying to get my head around and never gotten in economics.

I think it's more of a control issue and an erosion of the state-run currency.

That is what I meant by administering; they can't control the books on these exchanges, don't know what exactly is going in and out of the country. So they ban it and next up will be licenses and their NEO will probably skyrocket afterwards.

a reply to: Revolution9

This is all excellent news. It will end a lot of corruption. Bitcoin is subversive and is allowing some very vile people to do business globally. They have an easier time operating globally than Bank of England, lol.

Nothing good news about it. They want it closed because it is decentralised and they want control. Give the control to the people..

These finacial institutions have caused world wide havoc and have been used as wepons of mass destruction..

originally posted by: spliffster
That's not what I meant, I meant a bitcoin is basically worthless data on a drive until someone wants to give 3000 dollars for it, someone else might give 300 and another 3 million. But that is all in dollars, without a dollar, what is a bitcoin, just 1 unit, will the bitcoin become like what gold used to be in relation to a currency so bitcoin the gold and altcoin the actual currency? That's what I'm trying to get my head around and never gotten in economics.

No, because gold has actual intrinsic value and a crypto-currency does not.

Printing on paper ( even when its cloth is only worth as much as you believe it is .But does hold real value if only for teh paper .
Bit coin is compleatly worthless out side a computer .
It even less real then what people call money now .

One epm your whole country is broke and imange a kid wanting to buy candy .
The whole idea is a scam a scam a few people made millions on and so many here wish they were on the band wagon .

Governments dont need to ban it . Most people are not stupid enough to take a few kilobytes of info for payment on areal thing like a car or house or even candy .

Like other posters pointed out you can say its worth what every you want but the people who made millions off it did not get payment in bitcoins .

Better chance hitting the lotto then getting rich off bit coins taht ship has sailed

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: spliffster
That's not what I meant, I meant a bitcoin is basically worthless data on a drive until someone wants to give 3000 dollars for it, someone else might give 300 and another 3 million. But that is all in dollars, without a dollar, what is a bitcoin, just 1 unit, will the bitcoin become like what gold used to be in relation to a currency so bitcoin the gold and altcoin the actual currency? That's what I'm trying to get my head around and never gotten in economics.

No, because gold has actual intrinsic value and a crypto-currency does not.

True decentralized currency or even a few current cryptocurrencies (not so much Bitcoin but Monero, Verge etc)
have some thing worth a lot more than GOLD..

Privacy. It may not be physical but it's something our monetary systems do not have.

That should not be underestimated in today's world. Not for crime just for pure privacy.

Theres a few posts on here thinking it's going away, this is just the beginning.

1 BTC = 4oz gold. - Our system is against that not just for crime and "Think of the children" routine but because they realise this new system WORKS..

a reply to: Taggart


Privacy has no measurable intrinsic value unlike gold.