US company receives historic nod to send a lander to the moon

What an interesting thread, thank you all.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Oh believe me I understand that.

But SpaceX and others aren't reliant entirely on congressional funds. There is a huge market waiting for lift infrastructure for commercial satellite and space mining operations that are coming around the the bend over the next 5 to 10 years.

The government has a vested interest in exploiting space. To them the cost of contracting companies with their own resources is more cost effective than the old hat in house development that has been a hallmark of US space exploration for decades.

True -- nut I suppose I was also answering those (not you) who were claiming that NASA and the U.S. government is behind other countries in space exploration.

The reason for NASA and the U.S. Government paying SpaceX and Boeing and Orbital and other companies, such as the United Launch Alliance, to provide these launch services is because NASA wants to get out of that business and start concentrating more on what they used to be -- and that was a developer of space technologies and to get more into the deep space exploration side rather than being a package delivery driver or taxi service.

For example, to be able to get a spacecraft on its way to Mars that is large enough to have the things it needs to have for an extended human mission, we will need a very heavy-lift vehicle -- a heavy-lift vehicle that does not yet exist. NASA is currently working on such a heavy lift vehicle (the SLS Block 1B and Block II) that could launch payloads of over 100 metric tons to Mars or elsewhere. No one else is developing such a heavy-lift vehicle other than NASA. SpaceX has their Falcon Heavy, which could launch about 23 metric tons beyond Earth's orbit.

originally posted by: projectvxn
The space program has been choked out by government for decades.

How so?

a reply to: intrptr

Some of that is true using 1950-60's technology. No doubt that it takes fuel, money, etc., to get there but this not about sending somebody there this is about a robotic rover being sent. With modern materials, modern computers, modern rockets, the cost should drop low enough for a billionaire to start up a company with the goal of getting there. And that is what this news was about.

My thoughts now are: send a rover-robot, set up an uplink comm. system back to earth, dig around, analyze samples and send the information back. Helium 3 is all nice and stuff but can it even be processed out of the soil? IIRC, most of the surface is silicates and fine powered rock stuff. How is the other stuff separated to get to H3? Can it even be done? What about the other stuff they want to get at? Can that be easily processed out without human hands?

I think reality will set in rather quickly once they get there. Unless they can throw lunar moon dust on a shaker plate and classifier to get what they want then they will need water and energy to obtain minerals. That is if they do not encounter catastrophic loss like even "routine" satellite launches have experienced. Can their company withstand such a loss? IDK. That is why I am cautiously optimistic on this announcement. Yeah for science and mankind; lukewarm applause on the commercialization.

More info:

Congress last year passed a “finders’ keepers” law that granted companies ownership of any resources they might extract from an asteroid or lunar soil.

But a problem remained: No federal agency was responsible for approving such missions, so there was no green light to proceed.

Moon Express needed to show that its mission would comply with the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, including commitments not to contaminate another planetary body, to be subject to government oversight and to not interfere with other missions. The latter provision included promising not to disturb NASA's historic Apollo landing sites, for example.

“It was completely uncharted territory,” said Richards. “We boldly went where no private sector company had gone before in terms of regulatory frameworks.”

Now Moon Express just needs to pull off the moon shot.
...
A first launch optimistically is targeted for late 2017 on Rocket Lab’s new Electron rocket, either from Rocket Lab’s launch site in New Zealand or possibly Cape Canaveral. The FAA has not yet issued a launch license, which will be considered separately from the mission itself.

A soft moon landing late next year to start two weeks of operations on the surface would position Moon Express to win the Google Lunar XPRIZE’s top award of $20 million.

Florida Today, Aug 3, 2016 - Moon Express approved for first commercial lunar mission.

So there are a couple answers. I imagine you cannot just walk out into your back yard and shoot a rocket ship off without FAA approval. And the other agencies too. I did not know about the "finders keepers" rule! Or the Lunar XPrize (travel on the surface 500 meters and send back HD video).

MSNBCnews says the rocket will cost "under 5 million" and that the craft will be "four to five feet in diameter". link.

Shame that their own website does not contain this information. The rhetoric of hope and the future are very abundant in Florida Today piece. And that raises the whole "vaporware" specter again.

Thanks for all that replied to the OP! I have a few things to take of and will be back in a little bit and see if there is anything I can reply to with either wit, stupidity, or clarity!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

"Imagine getting engaged and instead of a diamond, giving your fiancé a moon rock ring," he said.

A 'rock'? for a wedding ring? She wants a big diamond instead, trust me.

But I get the bragging rights thing amongst the wealthy elite. The man with the biggest-- rock, wins.

Imagining for a moment that some of these upper crusters have billions, a moon shot returning a lump of moon is a relatively small if not worthless investment to have a bigger... rock.

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah, a moon rock engagement ring! LOL. Does he not understand that going to the moon all the time to gather moon rocks would decrease their value? Supply and demand. May as well be pukka shells at that point right?

What amazes me is how quickly all the government agencies "OK"'d this request. Kafka wrote about bureaucracies for a reason. He is probably a supporter to Honorable So and So that fast-tracked the request.

Thanks for taking the time to read the source! Seems many just throw up an opinion nowadays. I figured a local source would be better than MSM (which seems to reprint affiliate stuff with op-ed comments).

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: projectvxn

I also hope they do not have to worry about this guy either!

Dennis Hope, an American entrepreneur, sells extraterrestrial real estate. In 1980, he started his own business, the Lunar Embassy Commission. As of 2009 Hope claimed to have sold 2.5M 1-acre plots on the Moon, for around US$20 per acre. He allocates land to be sold by closing his eyes and randomly pointing to a map of the Moon. He claims two former US presidents as customers, stating Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan had aides purchase them plots on the moon.

Wikipedia: Extraterrestrial real estate.

Feeding the meter would be a PITA unless you can use Visa or AmEx! I guess there no way to get a ticket so NVM.

So if the idea of ownership and land/mineral use are not settled wonder what that would mean to this venture? IDK, just thought about space treaties and how they involve the moon...

No, just no. When that happens expect the Moon to be bombed. Cracked in half and Earth gets affected.

a reply to: makemap

I will see your moon bomb and raise you that Glorious Leader will save us all!

A senior official at North Korea’s space agency, speaking to the Associated Press, said that Pyongyang plans to have satellites in orbit by 2020 and its flag on the moon within ten years.

“Even though the U.S. and its allies try to block our space development, our aerospace scientists will conquer space and definitely plant the flag of the DPRK on the moon,” said Hyon Kwang Il.

Newsweek, Aug. 4, 2016 - North Korea Wants to ‘Conquer Space’ and Plant Flag on Moon.

See, that is why we need space treaties! To keep North Korea from conquering space!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

That was fast. That article could be a separate thread. I wonder why kind of dystopia we are going to have if NK does get space Territory.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Yah, I couldn't resist that one. Only guys would think to put a bit of murky moon glass on a wedding ring.

Girls are like, whats the mineral? Obsidian?

They wanted a 5 million dollar 10 carat yellow canary diamond.

image

a reply to: intrptr

But what color and carat?

LOL. The whole thing is a scam. But.. hey, why do you need 50% of your net income to get laid?!


I want the private sector to succeed but still have those reservations.

We (humankind) really do need this.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

LOL. The whole thing is a scam. But.. hey, why do you need 50% of your net income to get laid?!

I know, huh. So busy earning all that dough, where do they find the time?

Me, I'll be happy with the rocks i find here.

a reply to: makemap

I would not really think of it was a 'dystopia' since every sci-fi story from the 50's always featured some dude holding a ray gun. Seems our thirst for knowledge cannot be separated from our thirst for blood.

So I guess the "we were warned off from returning to the moon" does make sense from that point of view.

Gee, what can't Kim Jong Un do? He created the fusion bomb, discovered cold fusion, climbed a mountain without breaking a sweat, declared war on the thrice cursed 'Mericans... all he needs now is a Nobel Peace Prize! /sarcasm

If their puny ballistic bombs can only reach the tip of South Korea I doubt they can achieve low earth orbit in ten years.

So what is on the lunar surface (beside engagement ring rocks)?

Lunar iron mining might also come with other elements commonly used in industry like aluminum and silicon, which are also common on the moon’s surface.
...
The metals potentially on the moon include ruthenium, rhodium, palladium, osmium, iridium, and platinum itself.

Inverse.com, Aug 3, 2016 - The Five Big Things on Moon Express's Future Lunar Shopping List.

The five from the article are: Iron, Platinum, Helium-3, Nickel-cobalt-iron, and Water.

So how to process dirt to get any/all of the loot? There is a major problem right there. Cool that there is bunch minerals and unknowns. Unless they send up a radio controlled robot that links back to earth and a human controller... even just typing that seems rather silly! Anybody who has prospected or mined will tell you it is a dirty job any way you do it. A robot would seize up--see how dirty the Apollo guys got just walking around? Michael Collins would not the others back in unless they cleaned off first! Any ideas?

Single source, so take it with a grain of salt!

The New York Post reported that Moon Express's plans for commercial cargo include taking human remains to the moon.

Jain told the New York Post that the delivery of one's ashes for lunar interment would be based on a "payload" price of USD 3 million per kilo.

"Since the cremated remains of adults generally weigh between 4 and 6 pounds, the indicated price range is USD 5.4 million to USD 8.1 million," the Post said, adding that the demand for such a service is high.

"We already have a long list," it quoted Jain as saying.

NDTV, Aug. 9, 2016 - Indian-American's Moon Express To Take Human Remains To Moon.

As stated, single source, NDTV (New Delhi Television), has this story up with a creepy photo of Jain in what looks like a version of the "vomit comet" doing free fall training. If this is true... wth?? There are not enough dead bodies feeding the earth right now we have to go to the moon to inter vain glorious rich bastids?

Hope this is not true (or at least exaggerated) because, "Booo!"