Maybe welfare recipients could help improve their state

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Zerodoublehero
Have you not read hecates post? Yes, get them to sweep the highway. But what happens to the guy already employed to sweep the highway? Oh, the authority realises that they can get benefit recipients to do it for nothing so the fire their original sweeper.
let's make this perfectly clear. IF THERE IS WORK THERE TO BE DONE EMPLOY THEM TO DO IT AND PAY A LIVING WAGE, whether that's sweeping roads ,cleaning municipal building or any community work it should be payed for doing that job not expecting it to be done for free. And please don't say "oh, it's not free as they are getting benefit". Benefit is payed by the government not the local authorities. The local authorities get the work done for nothing.

You obviously don't understand the point which is to deter people from abusing the system. Did it ever cross your mind that there is more stuff that could be done to help the community but it is not in the budget? Doing that might encourage people to try harder to find a job. There's plenty of trash on the highway where I live. But I don't see people cleaning very often .

a reply to: Azureblue

I never even considered it going back into the economy. Judging from that point of view, I now see it as less of a liability to the state. Thank you for that.
Even so, wouldn't it be nice if the recipients had to do their part to contribute some elbow grease to their county wouldn't it make it more of a win?

a reply to: Vector99

lol. That's what I was thinking... well my thoughts were a little more filtered than yours. lol.
It would also give another incentive for those on welfare to get a legitimate job on their own. Something they'd actually enjoy and possibly improve the quality of their life.

a reply to: Azureblue

I don't have an issue with welfare. There are many people that have no choice but to receive it. What I do have a problem with it people taking advantage of it. For example, a few days ago I was at the grocery store and the women in front of me bought 4 or 5 12 packs of soda and some candy for her daughter (not, judging her on buying candy for her daughter. The kids shouldn't have to suffer) with her EBT card/food stamps. On another transaction, she bought 4 huge bottles of hard alcohol and paid cash. If anything it made me sad for the beautiful little girl that sees this as normal. I'm guessing her mother didn't work. Don't you think the quality of the childs life would change if she were to see her mom leaving and going to a job to earn those food stamps.
I grew up with a single mother who always worked. I had a father whom was a business owner that also contributed quite a bit. So I'm well aware my mother had plenty of help that many of these single mothers don't have. But I don't even think those on welfare are happy being on it, and would feel better if they could say they earned their money. Don't you?

originally posted by: makemethink
a reply to: Azureblue

I don't have an issue with welfare. There are many people that have no choice but to receive it. What I do have a problem with it people taking advantage of it. For example, a few days ago I was at the grocery store and the women in front of me bought 4 or 5 12 packs of soda and some candy for her daughter (not, judging her on buying candy for her daughter. The kids shouldn't have to suffer) with her EBT card/food stamps. On another transaction, she bought 4 huge bottles of hard alcohol and paid cash. If anything it made me sad for the beautiful little girl that sees this as normal. I'm guessing her mother didn't work. Don't you think the quality of the childs life would change if she were to see her mom leaving and going to a job to earn those food stamps.
I grew up with a single mother who always worked. I had a father whom was a business owner that also contributed quite a bit. So I'm well aware my mother had plenty of help that many of these single mothers don't have. But I don't even think those on welfare are happy being on it, and would feel better if they could say they earned their money. Don't you?

I'm sure most would if they could.

What comes into this is that people on welfare are demonized with examples as you have quoted. What many people fail to appreciate is that the owners and controllers of the politicans want more for themselves so their best way of getting it is to have it taken off individuals and given to them.

We also have to face it weather owe like it or not that increase automation and robots are going to put many out of work and they cannot just be cast aside and treated like rubbish. This means that we will have to revisit the discussions I used to see on TV in the 1970's about paying people not work. Now those discussions in the 1970s may have been before their time but they are relevant again today.

Moreover, what makes me very angry is knowing how the banks create money, I know that govt can do exactly the same thing using the exact same method. In fact this is what QE was about, creating money for too big to fail banks. Paul Craig Roberts has a very good article on this.

I have absolutely not qualms about paying people not to work as I know that the money bounces thru peoples bank accounts straight back into the local economy and in the meantime the people survive, only I don't see the need for it to be a 'survival' only wage. it can easily be more than that.

Anyone who researches how money is created will come to the conclusion that its quite possible as in doable.

What makes me angry is most of the anti dole people hate the dole and the people who claim it for no other reason than because they have been taught to do so by the media. These people usually quote as examples of their purchases, the same things they as you have. So what if they do. How any people buy this stuff when they are working? whats the difference in when someone works and someone gets the dole?

The inference seems to be that people on the dole who buy that stuff are getting too much dole or, they should not be allowed to buy it for some other reasons. Whichever is the reason its focusing on insanely little things. Why is the same focus not brought to bear on corporate welfare???

What also makes me very angry is that most of the dole haters don't even know about corporate welfare and how much money that consumes because they believe what they are told to believe by the media.

Many of them hate the dole and the people who claim simply because they have been trained to do so by the media.

Bottom line? In the western world we all could all have a very strong welfare system at little or no cost to the taxpayer but the corporations are ideologically opposed to welfare for individuals because it takes some money away from them.

Thanks for responding

originally posted by: makemethink
a reply to: Azureblue

I never even considered it going back into the economy. Judging from that point of view, I now see it as less of a liability to the state. Thank you for that.
Even so, wouldn't it be nice if the recipients had to do their part to contribute some elbow grease to their county wouldn't it make it more of a win?

Can I suggest that you do research into how money is created. When people do this research they usually learn that banks create money out of thin air. I wont go into how its done now but the point is that govt could also do it using the exact same method.

When people work they pay tax (which is only because the govt has to borrow money off the Banks) Its likely they pay more in tax than the corporate sector which has far more deductions available to them than wage and salary earners.

I notice no studies have been done on this and I suspect the reason is because as I suggest is likely to be case.

Govts are usually keen to let the public know how much money the welfare system for individuals takes up but why dont they also being the same focus to corporate welfare. Why are there no figures on how much money is spent on corporate welfare each years??

When I went out to work in 1968 the corporate tax rate was 60%. today its 30% and falling. So just who is paying the nations tax? I suggest that wage and salary earners pay far more of the nations tax than do companies.

People should ask the question, just how much tax is going into corporate welfare? why are no figures available? Why is no data collected on this?

It is my view that most people who are opposed to welfare for individuals hold that view because they media has given them that view. They have been 'trained up' to think like the media wants them to.

I submit that the amount of money spent on welfare for individuals is very little compared to how much is spent on corporate welfare and that is why the figures are not available.

Thank you for your comments.

a reply to: makemethink

Unfortunately, there are enough people that abuse the system for others to take note of it. However, I think that those that DO illegally and unashamedly take advantage of welfare benefits are a significantly smaller portion than those that genuinely need the benefits that they receive.

Really, its terrible that these people lend a poor image to welfare recipients that are truly in need and bust their asses for peanuts but there seem to be whole families across multiple generations that have learned how to scam the system and get away with receiving benefits while making cash under the table and using those monies towards frivolous purchases.

This is purely anecdotal, but as a person that has been through a rough patch or two in the past, I've had to apply for certain benefits myself and have witnessed many times women with expensive nails, jewelry, clothing, high end bags, latest smartphone or tablet, climbing out of late model luxury vehicles, in the DES office reapplying for EBT, cash, WIC and free medical insurance. I've heard them actually brag about receiving these benefits so that they don't have to pay for food etc. and may continue to enjoy a lifestyle that those in need could not afford. Sure, maybe the circumstances surrounding these luxury items are completely different than outward appearances would suggest but I think its a stretch to say that it's not always exactly what it looks like.

As calstorm outlined in her well written and thorough post, there is a lot of information that an applicant must supply to the state. Its just that it isn't necessarily all that difficult to scam your way through if you were of a mind to do so and indeed had been taught from childhood to do just that.

What people always must try to remember is that, as I've said earlier in my post, those that abuse welfare are in the minority and do not represent the many hard workers that truly need the help to get by.