Hosea; What's wrong with Israel?

“The Lord has a controversy with the inhabitants of the land” (Hosea ch4 v1).
We might call it a lawsuit.

The summary of the indictment is that “there is no faithfulness or kindness, and no knowledge of God in the land”.
These are key.
The premise of the complaint is that our good conduct towards other people rests upon keeping good faith and keeping good will towards one another, and this follows on from our knowledge of God.
What the land has instead is “swearing, lying, killing, stealing, and committing adultery”, which covers the second half of the Ten Commandments.

They are also prone to drunkenness and spiritual adultery (that is, idolatry), which seem to go together.
“Wine and new wine take away the understanding.
My people inquire of a thing of wood, and their staff gives them oracles” (vv11-12).
“Ephraim is joined to idols, let him alone.
A band of drunkards, they give themselves to idolatry” (vv17-18).

Part of the problem is that they are getting no true guidance from the priests, who are charged with neglecting their duties;
“My people are destroyed through lack of knowledge;
Because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children” (v6).
It gets worse. We read that the priests band themselves together against men like robbers, “they murder on the way to Shechem, yea, they commit villainy” (ch6 v9).
Shechem was one of the towns named as a place of refuge for murderers, and the suggestion from one commentator is that this right was being abused.

Then there are the “princes”, the leaders of the land, who are obsessed with drink and politics;
“On the day of our king the princes became sick with the heat of wine…
For like an oven their hearts burn with intrigue;
All night their anger smoulders; in the morning it blazes like a flaming fire…
And they devour their rulers. All their kings have fallen; and none of them calls upon me” (ch7 vv5-7).
And if we turn to the histories, indeed, what we find in the northern kingdom is a succession of short-lived dynasties, each one overthrown in a bloody coup.
“They made kings, but not through me.
They set up princes, but without my knowledge” (ch8 v4).
In Saul’s time, it was the prophet Samuel who chose and anointed kings.
This verse refers to the way that the hereditary principle (modified by rebellions) and automatic anointing by priests has eliminated the role of the Lord and his prophets.
Therefore, says the Lord, “They shall cease for a little while from anointing king and princes” (ch8 v10).

“Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them” (ch9 v15).
In other words, it goes right back to the beginning, since Gilgal was Israel’s first rendezvous after crossing the Jordan.
But the other shrines of Israel have been just as bad. The priests have been “a snare at Mizpah, and a net spread upon Tabor, and they have made deep the pit of Shiittim” (ch5 vv1-2).
One of the most prominent names mentioned is Bethaven (“house of idols”), which is being used as a nickname for Bethel and its calf image.
“Because Ephraim has multiplied altars for sinning…” (ch8 v11).
Worshipping at many altars is not wrong in itself, though the later priests of Jerusalem would like to read it that way.
“They love sacrifice; they sacrifice flesh and eat it; but the Lord has no delight in them” (ch8 v13).
Nor is the sacrifice wrong in itself, though it’s not the important thing God wants from his people. However, the offerings they give him are not sufficient to compensate for their other faults.
“They do not cry to me from the heart, but they wail upon their beds;
For grain and wine they gash themselves, they rebel against me…
They turn to Baal” (ch7 vv14-16).
That is the real problem. Their worship is not wholeheartedly directed towards the Lord, and that is what makes it faulty.

“A spirit of harlotry has led them astray, and they have left their God to play the harlot.
They sacrifice on the tops of mountains, and make offerings upon the hills, under oak, poplar, and terebinth, because their shade is good…
The men go aside with harlots, and sacrifice with cult prostitutes” (ch4 vv13-14).
Their spiritual harlotry is associated with literal harlotry and with drunkenness- not just as part of the same life-style, but also, it seems, combining them all in the same time and location.

Therefore the Lord says of them “They sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind” (ch8 v7).
“Ephraim is like a dove, silly and without sense, calling to Egypt, going to Assyria” (ch7 v11).
This is partly about looking for political alliances, partly about imitating pagan ways.
But what they are doing unconsciously is inviting Egypt and Assyria to come and invade them and take them into exile.
For when they move away from the Lord, they leave themselves vulnerable;
“They shall return to the land of Egypt, and Assyria shall be their king, because they have refused to return to me” (ch11 v5).

There is also a message here for all those in later times who understand themselves to be part of God’s people.
It serves as a warning that that their confidence in their status should not cause them to relax into complacency.

If you believe in a God, as a progenitor, and perhaps as a saviour, then we are all God's people...there is no way round that...all the rest is just eloquent shiite..no more priviledged, no master races.

Otherwise, there is a God, a progenitor for each and every religion...that's shiite as well.

a reply to: smurfy
The Biblical God specifically declares the existence of a relationship with a particular group of people (if only as the starting point for establishing relations with the rest of the world).
So we are all "God's people" in the sense of having been made by him, but we are NOT all God's people in the sense of having a relationship with him.
If we believe in this particular God, then we believe what he says.

Quickly.....everyone read-up all that has happened about Israel in just t he last three weeks.....my heavens......it's judgement readied......now to be meted out huh!!!!! the mount......abbas.....da French plan that has become lost in the news.....

a reply to: GBP/JPY
Thank you for those comments.
Yes, Israel and the Jews need to pay attention to warnings like these, but so should the church.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: smurfy
The Biblical God specifically declares the existence of a relationship with a particular group of people (if only as the starting point for establishing relations with the rest of the world).
So we are all "God's people" in the sense of having been made by him, but we are NOT all God's people in the sense of having a relationship with him.
If we believe in this particular God, then we believe what he says.

God hasn't said anything, and a 'Biblical God' as being God, is a misnomer, the Bible is a book, a book of testimony, testimony that this is God's word or wishes, written by whom? not by God, we don't even know who or what God is, and that is the truth. What we really do is mold the God of the Bible to factions, or better still perceived race, like sucking a big dodie...that's what makes us all special and better than that other lot, except we don't actually say that...well some do

What I see here it is. Follow the line of Caine in the Bible. He was of his fathers seeds Satan. What was Abel seeds? To this day? Two fathers, twins were born. Yep What happened in the garden original sin. The talking snake was Satan who transformed into a God had sex with Eve first ok then Eve seduced Adam. Adam and Eve just reached the ripe (apple) age to have children. Eve didn't her first period before being taken etc. Adam and Eve were ripe kids who didn't know anything about sex. Did your folks tell you or from others. Gods plan is perfect if you want to search. The seeds of Cain rule the world etc. Known as Jews were of Caine seeds. The promised land for Gods Chosen is the USA. Think about it. They been hidden until now. The orig Thirteen Colonies and the flag 13 stars in a circle and the stripes 13 total red and white. The Thirteen Tribes, melting pot of all nations USA. From Sea to Shining Sea?

The word Jew wasn't in any bible translation until the 18 Century. The closest to the real truth is KJV 1611 First version. The tree of the seeds in the KJV has pictures with all the names of how the blood lines were born up to the printing. The word Father with capital letters is God speaking, and the father with lower case is Satan speaking in the Bible. You won't see this today.

My version and others what happened.

Jesus who died for us was word of mouth to Fishers of Men to spread his word and truth of who we truly are.




Do a search and see.

a reply to: smurfy

There are three ways to be God's people.

1. God's children in the sense He created all of us which confers little special anything on anyone only inasmuch as it gives you the opportunity to be more.

2. God's people in the sense that He made a Covenant with the Israelites in the OT. They are God's chosen people even today, but that doesn't mean He is necessarily happy with them. However, even some of them will be saved because God keeps His promises.

3. God's people in the sense that through the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ and the Covenant of Grace, but in order to have that, you must form a personal relationship with Him. It is not something that is magically extended to everyone. You have to seek it and embrace it and work on it ... much like a successful marriage in a way. And we all know there are many who do not want that relationship.

originally posted by: smurfy

God hasn't said anything, and a 'Biblical God' as being God, is a misnomer, the Bible is a book, a book of testimony, testimony that this is God's word or wishes

This is an exercise in Biblical theology, and the premise of Biblical theology is that the Creator God has been making the statements attributed to him in the text.
In other words, it is all about communication.
On that premise, we know what he is like because he says so.

a reply to: The only 1 who knows the
You need to take into account the New Testament understanding of God's people.
Paul defines "the Israel of God" as those who "walk by this rule". And "this rule" is "neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation" - Galatians ch6 vv15-16

On that understanding, bloodlines of any kind, whether open or hidden, are beside the point.

So I am covering Hosea in these four threads;
What's wrong with Israel?
I will give them up
I cannot give them up
I will bring them back

double post