Dalhousie University Supports Perps, NOT Victims

Talk about Next Level Bull#.

Just watched a CBC interview with Dalhousie President Florizone and the Dental Faculty Dean.

Now it's official - this is all about money and power, and protecting the perps, NOT the victims. Here's how they're working it:

* Just to be clear: The perps are NOT suspended from the faculty or classes, just from clinical activities in the now-closed dental clinic. [Gotcha. They're suspended from working in a closed clinic.]
See: Dalhousie Dental Clinic Closed Over Scandal
Also see: Dalhousie dentistry faculty postpones opening clinic

* The perps' suspensions from the clinic are meant to protect the perps (!), NOT the victims. The University claims they were informed of "credible threats" to the perps' safety. [Hmmm.]

* Dalhousie delayed announcing the suspensions to protect the perps and set up counselling for them - NOT the victims. [Huh?!]

* The perps are NOT suspended from classes, but exams have been delayed for ALL dental students. [Got the picture?]


Dalhousie is committed to following a just process (which is "complex") and just incidentally, protecting the perps, NOT the victims.

And oh yeah - Dalhousie officially considers the Facebook posts to be "offensive, degrading, and unacceptable" - but at the same time, clearly fine-and-acceptable in terms of Dalhousie Policies, Codes of Conduct and Professional Standards.

….Maybe Dalhousie is following India's example. : puz :

"Rape does not exist in a vacuum, it is not an aberration. There's a matrix of social and economic violence in which rape survives. We have to also tackle moral policing, violence inside homes and systematic assaults on women's autonomy."

Or maybe Dalhousie doesn't understand the true power of social media.

Seems to me these assholes don't deserve to finish their education in dentistry......it puts the public at risk.....
They do the same kind of trolling for terror suspects and deal with them too...why not just boot these jerks out of dental school?

More as it comes online.

Dalhousie Dentistry Students Return to Class

...Thirteen Dalhousie University dentistry students who belonged to a controversial Facebook group have been temporarily suspended from clinical activities, pending consideration by the faculty of dentistry’s academic standards class committee.

..."The committee will assess the situation of each individual and ensure that any individual recommended for graduation will have complied with the professionalism requirements of the academic program. No student will be permitted to graduate unless they have done so."

[NOTE: Academic standards are about scholastic achievement, NOT conduct.]

originally posted by: stirling
Seems to me these assholes don't deserve to finish their education in dentistry......it puts the public at risk.....
They do the same kind of trolling for terror suspects and deal with them too...why not just boot these jerks out of dental school?

I agree. I also think guys who joke about having a bomb while boarding a plane are just stupid. But guys who "joke" about chloroforming and raping women are voicing real ingrained attitudes that inspire their decisions and actions.

ng

I've already said this, in numerous places, to lots of attacks but whatever.

Not all of these people are future rapists, there is an investigation that needs to be done. Not all 13 of these people are as guilty as some of the others. I'm sure there are two ringleaders that are more guilty than the others.

The problem i'm seeing is, its perfectly okay to end 13 peoples lives for some immature comments made on a private facebook page. I've read said comments. YES these kids should pay for what they have done, and they will. But guess what, the ladies at dalhousie aren't #ing nuns either. They say the same kinds of things to those "hot guys", and such. I condone punishment, of course. But if these 4th year students (already spent over 100 grand on school) are expelled for these comments, how will people feel if one or more of these kids kill themselves? becomes a drug addict? Booting them out with 100k in debt is pretty much ending their lives. Signing them off into the poor house.

A humiliating punishment would work best, they'd actually learn something.

The mob crying for blood right now is insane. Well they'll get it when one of these kids off themselves because of an immature joke. We've all said some terrible things in private, meaning it or not. Angry or not. Do they deserve to have their lives ended because of one lapse in judgement? This same knee-jerk reaction reminds me of that guy who landed on a comet, and was brought to tears because of the shirt he wore. Expelling them gains nothing. If anything they'll become criminals when they can't find a job to sustain the huge loan payments they'll have to pay. Like we need more leeches on the system.

a reply to: AzureSky

...how will people feel if one or more of these kids kill themselves? becomes a drug addict? Booting them out with 100k in debt is pretty much ending their lives. Signing them off into the poor house.

Have you even considered for even a nano-second the effects such assaults have on the female victims? How many female victims commit suicide or become drug addicts? How many female victims are forced to withdraw from classes in self-defence? And suck up that 100k debt? Have you thought about how many female lives are ended, how many are consigned to the poorhouse from the get-go because they're shut out of "professional" faculties by such vicious students and professors? Have you contemplated the loss to society? At all?

Please, give me a break. These guys are NOT victims. Their expulsion would not represent a loss to society - their graduation would. The institutions and societies that allow and support such behaviours are victimizing themselves by doing so.

Yes, the 13 perps represent 68% of that graduating class - not to mention a HUGE financial hit for Dalhousie. So what?

a reply to: soficrow


I'm not saying they are victims. But they didn't actually do anything wrong.
There is nothing in the criminal code that states they can't say things. Hell, what Louis CK says on stage is 10x worse than what these douchebags said.
Yes it unethical, yes it was stupid. Yes they deserve punishment.

There was no "assault" here, maybe sexual harassment, maybe it can be perceived as cyber bullying. Whatever the case may be. Why would anyone withdraw from class, in self defence? in self defence of what, being raped in the middle of class?

Its not for us to decide anyway, this is the schools problem. It's not a criminal issue either as no laws have been broken. I'm sure the ladies in question could sue said males for sexual harassment if they so desired to. I bet there are similar groups where women do the same thing, only they didn't get caught.

Regardless, they wont be expelled. Its the schools decision, the guys will pay for their comments either way.

originally posted by: AzureSky
Not all of these people are future rapists

Yeah, okay.

The problem i'm seeing is, its perfectly okay to end 13 peoples lives for some immature comments made on a private facebook page. I've read said comments. YES these kids should pay for what they have done, and they will.

No one is talking about killing these people, unless I am out of the loop.

But guess what, the ladies at dalhousie aren't #ing nuns either. They say the same kinds of things to those "hot guys", and such. I condone punishment, of course. But if these 4th year students (already spent over 100 grand on school) are expelled for these comments, how will people feel if one or more of these kids kill themselves? becomes a drug addict? Booting them out with 100k in debt is pretty much ending their lives. Signing them off into the poor house.

Your First Amendment Rights still have social consequences. If you don't want to be expelled, don't say something that can get you expelled.

A humiliating punishment would work best, they'd actually learn something.

Expulsion is pretty humiliating.

The mob crying for blood right now is insane. Well they'll get it when one of these kids off themselves because of an immature joke. We've all said some terrible things in private, meaning it or not. Angry or not. Do they deserve to have their lives ended because of one lapse in judgement? This same knee-jerk reaction reminds me of that guy who landed on a comet, and was brought to tears because of the shirt he wore. Expelling them gains nothing. If anything they'll become criminals when they can't find a job to sustain the huge loan payments they'll have to pay. Like we need more leeches on the system.

Excuse me if I'm not crying for some idiots that think rape is a joke.

Meh, i hardly care about this. There are worse issues happening in nova scotia right now then silly kids making silly jokes.

a reply to: AzureSky

Guys like this terrorize women online, in the classroom and in social settings. They're all about power. In comparison, guys who joke about having a bomb while boarding a plane are just stupid. But guys who "joke" about chloroforming and raping women are voicing ingrained attitudes that motivate their decisions and actions.

I'm waiting for Anonymous to post their names - and warning patients NOT to let them anywhere near them or their children.

In case you missed it. [I LOVE these guys!]

Message to the Leaders of Dalhousie University

Hello, Leaders of Dalhousie University, we are Anonymous. We have watched with growing displeasure as you continue to mishandle the case of 13 Dentistry students who actively targeted their classmates in disturbing and hateful online postings. Anonymous initiated an investigation into this clear example of systemic misogyny, but learned of a far more troubling problem. Numerous reports of willful, systemic suppression of complaints are emerging from your human rights office. It is now clear to Anonymous that Dalhousie University will protect its image above all other concerns, including the wellbeing of its students. This is unacceptable to Anonymous.

Anonymous has gained possession of the list of 13 members of the DDS 2015 Gentlemen’s Club, and identified its ring leaders. The active participants of this group displayed a clear pattern of misogyny and homophobia. These individuals were targeting students of your school in conscious attempts to strip them of their humanity, dignity, and power. When this problem was brought to your attention, your reaction was to ignore it until it went public.

Anonymous has learned of other alleged incidents as well, where Dalhousie University suppressed complaints of outward sexism, sexual harassment, and even sexual assault. In one especially disturbing report, a victim of sexual assault was pushed to change their class schedule rather than pursue a formal investigation. These are not isolated incidents. These are pronounced flaws in the system that governs your institution. We will no longer tolerate policies that sweep uncomfortable matters under the rug. We will no longer tolerate your callous disregard for the dignity and safety of your students.

Your lack of empathy frankly astounds us. By asking victims to engage in a restorative justice process with no clear outcomes or disciplinary action, you place the image of the university above the needs of its students, you discourage future reporting, and you actively facilitate the re-victimization of those affected. This could have been avoided if suitable privacy protections were granted to victims. At least one affected student has expressed fear of academic and career repercussions for coming forward. But your primary concern remains to be the image of Dalhousie.

.........We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.

Anonymous says endemic sexism is alive and well at Dalhousie University, and says they're getting involved because nothing short of outside intervention will spur Dalhousie to act. Anonymous' demands include the following:

1. The Dalhousie Senate Discipline Committee will immediately begin steps to convene a hearing panel in regards to each member of the DDS 2015 Gentlemen club.

2. Steps to expel all active members and ringleaders, of The DDS 2015 Gentlemen club will begin immediately, including but not limited to: the group creator, group administrators, anyone who participated in the hate # poll, anyone who encouraged corrective sexual assault for LGBTQ persons, and anyone who encouraged the use of substances to facilitate sexual assault.

3. We want to know why this case was ignored until made public. Dalhousie University will immediately begin a thorough, inclusive, independent, and transparent investigation into the institutional practices of Dalhousie University as it pertains to human rights, misogyny, rape culture, and gender justice.

4. In concert with its existing and notably underfunded Gender Justice Center at South House, Dalhousie University will immediately begin work on creating a new, community driven, inclusive, and ongoing plan to address systemic sexism on campus and beyond.

5. Active Gentlemen Club members working at the Dalhousie Dentistry School Clinic will be forbidden from returning to practice there, with mandatory Gender Justice training for all clinicians.

6. Dalhousie University will immediately begin public consultation with its students, Gender Justice Center, and staff in order to hear any additional requests and ideas they may have.

7. A public promise from President Florizone that the image and reputation of Dalhousie University will never be placed above the wellbeing of its students.


If Dalhousie does not comply by mid-day Monday January 5th, Anonymous will take the following actions in the interest of public safety:

1. The names of all 13 members of the Gentlemen’s Club will be released.
2. The ring leaders and most active participants of the Gentlemen’s Club will be identified.
3. To ensure future victims know where to safely engage, the names of your staff members who: failed to act on this case, were lauded by the gentlemen, and the Dentistry Professor who displayed the bikini video to his class, will all be identified.


Finally, Anonymous invites all members of the public to join in an act of solidarity and peaceful protest on Monday January 5th at 12:00 noon, in front of the offices of the President of Dalhousie University, in Halifax Nova Scotia.

Demand action. Demand change. Demand a university that works for its students.

Operation Expel Misogyny is now a go. Supportive protests at your local university are welcome and encouraged.






Like I said, I LOVE these guys,
sofi

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: AzureSky

...how will people feel if one or more of these kids kill themselves? becomes a drug addict? Booting them out with 100k in debt is pretty much ending their lives. Signing them off into the poor house.

Have you even considered for even a nano-second the effects such assaults have on the female victims? How many female victims commit suicide or become drug addicts? How many female victims are forced to withdraw from classes in self-defence? And suck up that 100k debt? Have you thought about how many female lives are ended, how many are consigned to the poorhouse from the get-go because they're shut out of "professional" faculties by such vicious students and professors? Have you contemplated the loss to society? At all?

Please, give me a break. These guys are NOT victims. Their expulsion would not represent a loss to society - their graduation would. The institutions and societies that allow and support such behaviours are victimizing themselves by doing so.

Yes, the 13 perps represent 68% of that graduating class - not to mention a HUGE financial hit for Dalhousie. So what?

(Something messed up with my post.... this is a reply to soficrow)
So agree here. I was raped at university and no one gave a sh!t. I tried to soldier on a while but a career felt pointless, survival was pointless, terrified all the time, then swamped in alcohol, depression and suicide, never mind the $27,00 debt incurred because I couldn't face the perpetrator daily. It took decades to overcome psychologically. Yuck.


The big issue in this case really is that these guys will have potentially have access to intoxicating drugs and unsuspecting patients.

a reply to: AzureSky

These are not "silly kids" - these are MEN. Men who will have access to drugs and unsuspecting patients when/if they graduate. We're talking potential "pillars of the community" here - you know, the kind who do all the right things in public, then perpetrate all kinds of abuse and destroy lives in their private time.

a reply to: igloo

So agree here. I was raped at university and no one gave a sh!t. I tried to soldier on a while but a career felt pointless, survival was pointless, terrified all the time, then swamped in alcohol, depression and suicide, never mind the $27,00 debt incurred because I couldn't face the perpetrator daily. It took decades to overcome psychologically. Yuck.


The big issue in this case really is that these guys will have potentially have access to intoxicating drugs and unsuspecting patients.

I am so sorry. Yes - I wish their defenders would recognize that the kind of behavior universities allow, condone and support is exactly the behavior they're allowing, condoning and supporting to be perpetrated on society.

Supposedly, it's a "complex" issue and Dalhousie needs to follow a complex, lengthy process. Sure.

Dalhousie's Code of Student Conduct and Professional Standards

Dalhousie obviously allows, condones and supports threats of sexual violence, discrimination and harassment perpetrated by rich white males. [Don't try it if you're female, poor, black, Asian or GodForbid, Aboriginal.]

The Law

Canada's and Nova Scotia's human rights laws protect us from threats, discrimination and harassment.

Our right to "free expression of opinion" is also protected; however, these Dalhousie men were not "expressing opinions" - they were expressing a wish to act, and were threatening to act. Specifically, they wanted to chloroform and rape women, and to "hate #" women. Again, guys who "joke" about chloroforming and raping women are voicing ingrained attitudes that drive their decisions and actions.

Moreover, the Dalhousie men made their threats and expressed their desires publicly, and published them - which is also illegal.

At the least, these men should be charged on multiple counts of making threats, sexual harassment and discrimination. imho - they should get the book thrown at them, right on up to terrorism - these men were terrorizing the women in their faculty. Political terrorism laws do not require the victim to file a complaint - public threats of sexualized violence, sexual harassment and discrimination should not either.

a reply to: AzureSky

You may know. The whistleblower in the Dalhousie scandal is the ONLY one who is still suspended.

Like you, Dalhousie and that province's Dental Association know their priorities. Same with the Manitoba Police and Dental Association - oft-accused pedophile Dr. Ronald Walter Peterson practiced for decades before being charged. Seems local authorities didn't consider a bunch of allegations by a bunch of minors to be "evidence."

....Power protects power. Ya gotta go along to get along. Go after suspected "terrorists" with everything you've got but leave the rapists and pedophiles alone. Rights, Yadayada.