What's with all the hate for Paul?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yeah, maybe if you knew the scriptures, you could point out exactly where it says that. The problem in your case is that the bible never condones rape, thats an idea of your imagination that you project onto God and His word.

No rape in the Bible, eh? Au contraire, they love to rape the virgins.

The bible is coherant, it flows from book to book...so much so that Jesus' identity as the Messiah is painfully obvious. The fact that you cant see that indicates that you cannot thing out of the box. You are a SLAVE to worldly psychology...you and the rest of your Paul bashing buddies. Hine sight is only 20/20 if you open your eyes.

Addressing my integrity instead of the subject. A telling tactic.

Nothing that Paul taught was new. Over and over and over again those principles are taugh in OT, Gospels and NT. To say other wise after honestly examining the bible for yourself is outright slander.

Oh, right. Slander is only okay when God's chosen people do it.

Again i will thank you all to vent your demons elsewhere. I have learned much here and the belittling of others has not much basis here.

a reply to: deadeyedick

The main reason I have seen is that Paul expands on the message and teachings of Jesus Christ to the point that many post-modern, liberal minded people find his epistles offensive. Paul really expands on sin of all types, especially homosexuality, and some "Christians' can't handle the truth. This is where the "Red Letter Christian" movement comes from. They choose to only give validity to what Jesus actually said, because in their warped mind Jesus never taught or spoke against abortion and homosexuality, so they choose to ignore Paul's teachings on these subjects, as well as many others. The bottom line is this... Those who say that Paul's teachings are wrong or corrupt, or that they contradict the teachings of Jesus are no true Christians. In order to be a true born again believer in Jesus Christ, one must accept and believe EVERY word of the infallible truth of God's revelation to man (the Bible), even if they don't understand it. Just because you don't understand it or believe it doesn't make it any less true. The people who don't like Paul, are just too proud, arrogant and egocentric to have their sins and other lacking areas of their life pointed out to them. These people are not Christians, and these people are not saved.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

They choose to only give validity to what Jesus actually said, because in their warped mind Jesus never taught or spoke against abortion and homosexuality, so they choose to ignore Paul's teachings on these subjects, as well as many others. The bottom line is this... Those who say that Paul's teachings are wrong or corrupt, or that they contradict the teachings of Jesus are no true Christians.

Jesus speaks against fornication, not homosexuality.

These people are not Christians, and these people are not saved.

That's a relief. I hear the party in heaven is alcohol free and requires formal wear. Not my kind of gig at all.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

They choose to only give validity to what Jesus actually said, because in their warped mind Jesus never taught or spoke against abortion and homosexuality, so they choose to ignore Paul's teachings on these subjects, as well as many others. The bottom line is this... Those who say that Paul's teachings are wrong or corrupt, or that they contradict the teachings of Jesus are no true Christians.

Jesus speaks against fornication, not homosexuality.

Same goes with Paul. The customs in the area he writes to in the given epistles where he speaks of eh, manlove, well it was common and fully accepted that married men could have male lovers. Paul resented that.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

They choose to only give validity to what Jesus actually said, because in their warped mind Jesus never taught or spoke against abortion and homosexuality, so they choose to ignore Paul's teachings on these subjects, as well as many others. The bottom line is this... Those who say that Paul's teachings are wrong or corrupt, or that they contradict the teachings of Jesus are no true Christians.

Jesus speaks against fornication, not homosexuality.

Same goes with Paul. The customs in the area he writes to in the given epistles where he speaks of eh, manlove, well it was common and fully accepted that married men could have male lovers. Paul resented that.

Is fornication the same thing as homosexuality? That's like saying sex is the same thing as masturbation.

You Chrstians have to get it through your head that the bible is not nor has it ever been "Infallible"

This is a provable fact...

said infallibility is NOT...

Paul was just an interpriter of the Old Testament.

Non of the events preformed in the new testament were done by Yahweh Elohim.

It's a false doctrain. The new testament says that Avatar of the commander has already been born which didn't happen 2000 years ago. If it did happen we would be in a golden age.

The second coming in the new testament is a depiction of the prophecies of Amos/Isaiah/Psalms

The new testament replaces YWHW with Jesus and such as become the icon awaited by Christians.

But no original human would except such a cheasy story.


What reason is there for Jesus being sacrifised on a cross by a mob have to do with salvation of the species?
Absolutely nothing.

The action itself is in Negative view of the creator. By pinning him to a couple wood beams and having rituals hereafter where you drink the blood of Christ. If there were such things as Satanic rituals that would be one right there.

The new testament tries to make a 2nd coming possible LOL.
He is supposed to be the answer to the riddles in the Old testament. The promised seed of David.

The first coming hasn't even occured. And besides all this.


All these religions are based out of Egypt after the fall of the Egyptians, When the pyramid and Sphinx monuments were rediscovered.

Rome developed Jesus to quell the Jews, Because the Jews believed Yahweh was coming and that Jesus is the false Avatar. So they said they crucified their leader already. And provided documents of the events to divide the faith of the semetic people and evolve into the Christianity we know today.

They traveled to Alexandra, the scribes who wrote the new testament. There was still evidence of the of the Egyptian scrolls and texts at the time, which fueled the development of the old testament.
In that time, Rome knew of the knowledge held within and had everything seized and burned in Alexandria.
Scouts alerted the priests in Alexandria and they fled with jars of scrolls hiding them in the desert.

Some of the scrolls were found in cave, We call these the dead sea scrolls.

This is why such things such as the Underworld exist in the old testament, and evolved into the image of Hell we know as today.

The underworld is a well known land from nation to nation around the globe.
it is not a dwelling place for satan or the like, Demons and such.

The underworld is where the lead may stay for a while, Going along the challenges to be free.
But until YHWH returns, Death will not be conquered.
No one lingers in the underworld forever, and the information held in the new and old testament contradict each other.

At the time Egypt was brimming with activity, and so many cults were fussy over each other. This is recorded very well in the old testament. Interpritations over the monuments and the fallen remains of civilizations that settled there in passed times is what cause much of the diversity with islam/christianity/Jewish faith all being developed in the same city.

Even the egyptians themselves were wiped out over similar experiences that happened previously.

The priests of egypt attempted to interprit the monuments with giving them iconic figures of gods.

The first and ever formost worshiped icon in egypt is the Lion.

It is evident within the scriptual text as well as current art depictions that exist today with meaningful myths.
Ra- before depicted as a bird, was known as the Lion- The horizon. Which evovled into its own seperate god Aker the 2 lions.

www.egyptianmyths.net...

Aker
****(Akeru, Akerui)
Aker was an ancient earth-god in Egypt. He was believed to guard the gates of the dawn from which the sun rose each morning. He was portrayed as a double-headed lion, or a two lions sitting back-to-back. In between them is shown the sun with the sky overhead. In this way they form the akhet symbol, which was a symbol of the horizon. Occasionally they were portrayed bearing the akhet on their backs (as in the image to the right).

The two lions were called Sef and Duau, which means "Yesterday" and "Today" respectively.

As Egyptians believed that the gates of the morning and evening were guarded by Aker, they often placed statues of lions at the doors of their palaces and tombs. This was to guard the households and tombs from evil spirits and other malevolent beings. Sometimes they gave these statues the heads of men and women. The Greeks called this class of statuary, "Sphinxes."

It is believed that Aker is probably a more ancient earth god than the Heliopolitan god, Geb. **

Hosea 11:10

They shall go after the Lord; he will roar like a lion; when he roars, his children shall come trembling from the west;

Isaiah 11:6-9

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Hosea 5:14

For I will be like a lion to Ephraim, and like a young lion to the house of Judah. I, even I, will tear and go away; I will carry off, and no one shall rescue.

Jeremiah 50:44

“Behold, like a lion coming up from the thicket of the Jordan against a perennial pasture, I will suddenly make them run away from her, and I will appoint over her whomever I choose. For who is like me? Who will summon me? What shepherd can stand before me?

Genesis 49:9

Judah is a lion's cub; from the prey, my son, you have gone up. He stooped down; he crouched as a lion and as a lioness; who dares rouse him?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I could never compete with your level of disrespect: willfully taking scripture our of context, calling Christians murderers and necromancers, calling the God of Abraham a hypocrite. These alligations are all made from a possition of arrogance and hate with the intention of causing unrest, not from a possition of understanding.

Why should I show respect when you insist on propagating willfull ignorance?

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

They choose to only give validity to what Jesus actually said, because in their warped mind Jesus never taught or spoke against abortion and homosexuality, so they choose to ignore Paul's teachings on these subjects, as well as many others. The bottom line is this... Those who say that Paul's teachings are wrong or corrupt, or that they contradict the teachings of Jesus are no true Christians.

Jesus speaks against fornication, not homosexuality.

Same goes with Paul. The customs in the area he writes to in the given epistles where he speaks of eh, manlove, well it was common and fully accepted that married men could have male lovers. Paul resented that.

Is fornication the same thing as homosexuality? That's like saying sex is the same thing as masturbation.

Fornication is not homosexuality and homosexuality is not fornication. If a gay man marries another gay man and they live respectable lives, there's no God or sensible man who would call them fornicators. Well few anyway, if they were given the chance to think it through and hear out people who have fought and suffered much like the Lord did himself. I'm a fornicator, I have never been married but have met a few sisters of mercy along my path and God knows I loved every second of it. Doesn't necessarily make me a bad person or a sinner. God blessed me with those women. Some of them may even have saved my life....

And unlike many idiots claim, masturbation isn't prohibited in the Torah.

Onan broke the law you find in Deuteronomy 25:5 and his eh, tecnique, is arbitrary, legally as morally.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Cool, because fornication is the only thing Jesus ever mentioned about Sodom. Along with pride and greed.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I could never compete with your level of disrespect: willfully taking scripture our of context, calling Christians murderers and necromancers, calling the God of Abraham a hypocrite. These alligations are all made from a possition of arrogance and hate with the intention of causing unrest, not from a possition of understanding.

Why should I show respect when you insist on propagating willfull ignorance?

Because you agreed to when you joined this site, that's why. Terms and conditions, etc.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I read some of the scriptures in that link, didn't seem like they were out of context.
Seem pretty straight forward.
I am curious to see how they were taken out of context, care to show me?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I could never compete with your level of disrespect: willfully taking scripture our of context, calling Christians murderers and necromancers, calling the God of Abraham a hypocrite. These alligations are all made from a possition of arrogance and hate with the intention of causing unrest, not from a possition of understanding.

Why should I show respect when you insist on propagating willfull ignorance?

With God's will I will be able to keep poking you long into eternity....

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


Christians are murderers like anyone else. Let's see, The Crusades, The Inquisition, The Burning of Witches, the attempted genocide of natives.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

No rape in the Bible, eh? Au contraire, they love to rape the virgins.

Its clear to me that you hold tight to the claims in the link without examining the context of scripture itself.

The orders to find wives in Judge 21:10-14 did not come from God. Those were purely the actions and will of men.

In Numbers 31:7-18 & Exodus 21:7-11, only the virgins (who had not defiled themselves with Canaanite sex rituals) could be taken for marriage. No where does it say that these women were under age, or that marriage was forced, since the woman had to willingly shave her head's before entering her husband's house. The alternative to marriage was servitude. No rape here.

The women and children in Deuteronomy 20:10-14 were taken as servants (servants had certain rights under the Law). God did not instruct anyone to marry. The same goes for Judges 5:30. No rape here either.

In 2 Samuel 12:11-14, David broke the Law, and God punished him for doing so.

The slaves of Exodus 21:7-11 were not sex objects. They were servants and maids with rights to humane treatment. Again, no rape.


Zechariah 14:1-2 is a punishment for faithlessness. God withdraws His protection as a result of Jerusalem's apostasy. The crimes committed against Jerusalem are the actions of the foreign armies. God simply allows them access to Jerusalem. Their punishment comes later.

God made a contract with Israel, "Remain faithfull and I will protect you. Fall away, and you will be at the mercy of your enemies." God is not responsible for these crimes.

In Deuteronomy 22:23-24, a rape victim who makes no attempt to stop the crime is guilty of adultery, just as a passive witness to a murder is guilty of murder. This law is just.

In Deuteronomy 22:28-29, an unmarried woman was a misfit in society. No man was willing to mary a non-virgin. A rapist had to pay the price for stealing the virginity, and if the father is willing, he would have to take the responsibility for that woman for the rest of his life. Back then, women looked forward to marriage for status, love was a learned process. In this case, the man was not allowed to mistreat his wife under penalty of Law, and the woman did not have to worry about living as an outcast or as a servant. Your dissatisfaction with this is a matter of culture shock.

How is modern society any better? Over 50% of all non-arranged marriages end in divorce leaving a generation of broken families. Workers are endentured slaves to corporations. Rather than being provided with room and board, we are paid with money to find our own room and board. Who has the right to says this society is any better? Back then, women did not equate arranged marriages with rape. That is a new ideology.


God never gives the authority to rape.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


Christians are murderers like anyone else. Let's see, The Crusades, The Inquisition, The Burning of Witches, the attempted genocide of natives.

Thats a red herring. None of those groups had authority from God to do those things. Only Israel under the Age of the Law and divine revelation took direct military orders from God. The Law was fulfilled by Jesus, Israel was dispersed, the Church was given a new Law that doesnt involve military activity, and the Church dwells throughout many nations, not as a unified national theocracy. The actions of the Pope, the Inquisitors, witch trials, etc go against the Covenant that Jesus established specifically for the Church Age.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Because you agreed to when you joined this site, that's why. Terms and
conditions, etc.

Thats fair enough, I apologise for attacking your character.

I see this thread has turned hostile. Can we not share opinions without hurting other peoples' feelings? If you are offended by someone else's opinion and have to resort to insults and name calling then that shows blatant insecurity in your beliefs. No one is here to convert anyone, we're here to discuss opinions. No need for the insults, if an opinion hurts your feelings you should figure out why that is.

It has to do with reading scripture at face value instead of taking into account his diction, tone of voice, political air, and the rise of gnosticism at the time. Also cherry-picking.

Such as when he speaks of women being silent in church and asking their husbands questions at home. It doesn't actually have anything to do with telling women they shouldn't or couldn't have a voice in church. It is about telling them to refrain from interrupting and wasting a congregations time with elementary questions about prophecy. At the time, women generally didn't receive an education.

I am not actually a bible buff. I've just done some looking into for different parts that caught my attention more out of curiosity than anything, and what I stated is taken from my understanding of this link below:

frankviola.org...

I came across his blog purely by accident while running a search related to Jesus and one thing lead to another and I ended up reading his PDF, which at the time I was not actively searching for anything related to Paul. I found it to be an interesting read and a different take on Paul.