123% voted in Sevastopol? Yeah...no, they didn't.

Hello,

There's a thread on here that doubtless many have see, claiming that 123% of the population of Sevastopol voted in the Crimea referendum. There's much hilarity, many gifs, and much mocking.

The only problem is, they didn't. If one follows the links in the opening post of that thread, we see the story comes via Euromaindnpr.com, via Pravda.comm.ua then links to a blogger who calculated it.

Please note, I am not questioning the validity of the sources, I'm happy to accept them.

The blogger in question, 'tehnomad' writes here (via Google Translate)

teh-nomad.livejournal.com...

"At 20 o'clock in the Crimea voted one million 250 thousand 426 people. This result excluding Sevastopol "- he said. "Given Sevastopol voted one million 724 thousand 563 people," - said the head of the commission.

If you count: 1 724 563-1 250 426 = 474 137 people from Sevastopol voted in the referendum.

Except he didn't say that at all. Even the blogger himself, in a little amendment at the bottom of the post says as such (again via Google Translate)

Error P.s.2 Interfax figures. In a briefing was named number: 1524563 man. www.youtube.com... YiA & feature = youtu.be & t = 3m55s

There's even a link to a Youtube video of the actual announcement being made, in which the total given is 1,524,563.


Which is here. If you skip to about 3 minutes in the speech starts.



Which means that 1,524,563 - 1,250,426 = 274, 137 voted in Sevastopol, or about 70% or so.

While I'm aware the meme is now out there that 123% of people voted, look at those crazy/inept/evil lying Russians, they didn't.

And no one will care because now the notion is out there it can't be rebottled. Ever. So while I'm aware this thread will be ignored or people will start saying 'But the referendum was illegal' etc, I mostly don't care.

I am addressing the lie of 123%.

Deny ignorance indeed.

Did they count people or ballots?

Overall, there's really not enough math or information here (or anywhere) for me to be able to arrive at any kind of percentages personally. Examples. what is the total voting age population registered to vote? How do they control and track voting? Is it possible to vote twice or lose papers with check marks on them? Vote twice? Stuff ballot boxes? Vote if you're a "Tartar?"

Also, many times what they say isn't what it really is. I don't trust any of these numbers.

~Lucidity
Did they count people or ballots?

Overall, there's really not enough math or information here (or anywhere) for me to be able to arrive at any kind of percentages personally. Examples. what is the total voting age population registered to vote? How do they control and track voting? Is it possible to vote twice or lose papers with check marks on them? Vote twice? Stuff ballot boxes? Vote if you're a "Tartar?"

Also, many times what they say isn't what it really is. I don't trust any of these numbers.

None of that matters in this instance. I'm not trying to establish an absolute percentage of who voted, or how many voted.

I'm simply trying to kill the meme that '123% of Sevastopol voted'. Nothing more, nothing less.

reply to post by khimbar


Good post op and thank you for digging in and bringing a more accurate assessment of the numbers .I wouldn't worry mush about what propaganda has gone out .The truth is in denying ignorance and some will remain ignorant despite the truth . S&F

khimbar
None of that matters in this instance. I'm not trying to establish an absolute percentage of who voted, or how many voted.

I'm simply trying to kill the meme that '123% of Sevastopol voted'. Nothing more, nothing less.

Agenda explained.

SLAYER69

khimbar
None of that matters in this instance. I'm not trying to establish an absolute percentage of who voted, or how many voted.

I'm simply trying to kill the meme that '123% of Sevastopol voted'. Nothing more, nothing less.

Agenda explained.

Yes, trying to deny ignorance and put paid to a lie.

Thank you for your very helpful post and your thumbs up indicating you understand.

I thought it was b/s even from the get go.
They're not accounting for people who live outside the city limits for one (you know, skewing the numbers, as to be expected)
The big bad russians are coming!!

AzureSky
I thought it was b/s even from the get go.
They're not accounting for people who live outside the city limits for one (you know, skewing the numbers, as to be expected)
The big bad russians are coming!!

edit on 21/3/14 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)

Even that doesn't matter, the 123% is based on numbers which were made up and then corrected. There's even a video of the actual numbers given.

I approve of the music choice though.

reply to post by khimbar


Not wanting to name names and fall foul of the T&C on expressing opinion about other members, but i think we both know, as sould many other members on here, that the real truth matters little to the poster propagating the multitude of anti-Russian threads on here over the last few weeks.

Let him carry on...members can read his profile, see what types of threads he has authored and the obvious bias and inaccuracies attached to them, and see that all he's doing is essentially shining a very bright light right back at himself.

As we all know, light reveals a lot more detail than darkness can.

But yeah, even obviously inaccurate propaganda has a way of sticking in people's minds, that's what makes it such a long used tactic. Even if the real information is easy for them to find and confirm or refute for themselves, people are basically lazy and seldom check.

Teams of International observers were present and overseeing the Crimean referendum, i'm sure they would have been the first people jumping up and down and screaming foul if the vote was irregular..and they were not. Quite the opposite, they confirmed the vote was legit and fair.

MysterX


Teams of International observers were present and overseeing the Crimean referendum, i'm sure they would have been the first people jumping up and down and screaming foul if the vote was irregular..and they were not. Quite the opposite, they confirmed the vote was legit and fair.

edit on 21-3-2014 by MysterX because: added info

With respect, I'm deliberately avoiding the legality or results of the election. The original thread with the 123% title is constantly being taken off topic by discussions of legality, constitutions and results which is merely used to obfuscate and cover the lie.

And I very much have doubts as to the legality and fairness of it anyway.

The purpose of this thread, simply and purely, is to expose the title of the other thread, namely that 123% of Sevsatopol voted, as a lie and a hoax.

reply to post by khimbar

Which brings up a question that if one thread is true and the other is false then shouldn't that untrue thread be put in the HOAX bin ? I some times see new threads get dumped there quite quickly . Anyone able to answer this ? ....peace

As per Wikipedia, Crimea has a population of 1,967,119 (2013 - see link #1) and Sevastopol has a population of 383,499 (2013 - see link #2).

Latest results from the referendum reveal that there were 1,533,208 registered voters in Crimea, which equates to 77.9% of the total population of Crimea and 306,258 registered voters in Sevastopol, which equates to 79.9% of Sevastopol (see link #3). Having a registered voter percentage of 75-80% from the entire population is similar to most democratic nations.

Furthermore, when examining the number of individuals who voted (since not all registered voters actually end up voting) in Sevastopol (274,101) out of the entire population of Sevastopol (383,499) you get a mere 71.5%. I have no idea where the 123% came from, knowledge is power folks!


Link 1: Demographics of Crimea
Link 2: Population of Sevastopol
Link 3: Crimean Referendum 2014

reply to post by khimbar
we

Ah...but, see, I think it kills itself. Where both the math and the headline came from are both questionable. However, given the makeup of the population (age, ethnicity, and so on) and the emotion of this vote, I don't happen to buy either number.

Fact is, there were "news" stories about this and fact is they were posted here for discussion. Why a new thread was necessary, well...agenda explained indeed.

~Lucidity
reply to post by khimbar

 

we

Ah...but, see, I think it kills itself. Where both the math and the headline came from are both questionable. However, given the makeup of the population (age, ethnicity, and so on) and the emotion of this vote, I don't happen to buy either number.

The maths isn't questionable in any way. 123% of the population didn't vote. It's simple. Which part of that do you disagree with may I ask?

~Lucidity

Fact is, there were "news" stories about this and fact is they were posted here for discussion. Why a new thread was necessary, well...agenda explained indeed.

Were there? or did it all come from this one blog who later corrected it? Do you have a link to it being published anywhere that didn't lead to this blog, I'd be grateful if you did, I couldn't find one.

A new thread is necessary to expose the other one as a hoax. That's the agenda. I make no attempts to disguise that in any way, do you prefer we left the other one unexposed?

If so, may I ask why?

reply to post by khimbar

I agree the math doesn't matter. It seems to me that the ATS thread itself wasn't a hoax even though it was discussing information that may have been, in a very similar style to this one. And yes, it probably got derailed, but very little doesn't around here. Symantics.

~Lucidity
reply to post by khimbar

 

I agree the math doesn't matter. It seems to me that the ATS thread itself wasn't a hoax even though it was discussing information that may have been, in a very similar style to this one. And yes, it probably got derailed, but very little doesn't around here. Symantics.

Semantically, if a thread is started based on a hoax premise, is that thread then in itself a hoax do you mean?

I agree. I don't think the original poster of it had any reason to doubt the data presented. In fact, I imagine the opposite.

I merely want to address the myth that 123% voted and bring this to peoples attention. I have tried to do this in the original thread but it is repeatedly ignored.

I'm also curious how many people believed it, still believe it, or did any basic fact checking into it.

How the heck!!! did no-one do math at school. There can NEVER be 123% of any thing. 100% is the tops, this cannot be more people than 100%. Who ever comes out with this guff seriously wants sectioning. No offence to those already sectioned.

crayzeed
How the heck!!! did no-one do math at school. There can NEVER be 123% of any thing. 100% is the tops, this cannot be more people than 100%. Who ever comes out with this guff seriously wants sectioning. No offence to those already sectioned.

The claim came about to try and imply, sorry not imply I mean categorically state, that it was proof of election fraud.

Except it wasn't.

reply to post by khimbar


Can't say I'm at all surprised that people would stoop to such levels!!!
People banging on about "International Law" without a single piece of evidence that the referendum was illegal, just politician after politician & media mouthpiece after media mouthpiece saying the words "International Law"... I've yet to see them back this up with the "How"!!!
So what do they do... Instead they fraudulently spout falsified Ballot numbers in the hopes that people will treat Russia with contempt, too bad for the West that a majority of us wait for firm evidence at ATS!!!

Absolutely fair play to you Khimbar for doing the leg work that nobody else seemed to do, including myself!!!

This Thread is a shining Testiment to ignorance denial!!!

S&F!


Peace K!

I never responded to the thread in question because its easily recognizable as Ukranian propaganda.

(And no, I am not saying that Russia is not also spreading propaganda, leave me alone with your black/white thinking)

More dismaying than the whole crisis is how easily people will believe anything they read if it agrees with their ideology or bias.