The white paper on Scotlands Independence

For those who may be interested in Scotland's Attempt to Break away from the Shackles of Westminster once and for all, I give the case for... Feel free to read all 600+ pages.... for those Unionists out there, it has some Pictures as well...

Alba Gu Brath..


"Scotland’s referendum on 18 September 2014 is a choice
between two futures.
If we vote Yes, we take the next step on Scotland’s journey.
We will move forward with confidence, ready to make the
most of the many opportunities that lie ahead. The most
important decisions about our economy and society will be
taken by the people who care most about Scotland, that is
by the people of Scotland. The door will open to a new era
for our nation.
Scotland’s future will be in Scotland’s hands"

www.dropbox.com...

reply to post by Soloprotocol


This interests me from a cnstitutinal law perspective, but I dont have the time to read on it now; Just marking the thread for later comment.

cartenz
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

This interests me from a cnstitutinal law perspective, but I dont have the time to read on it now; Just marking the thread for later comment.

Enjoy.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Tagging along. Good luck! Maybe the ghost of William Wallace will help

reply to post by Soloprotocol


God love ye! I'll have a read tonight when I get some peace.

Thanks for putting this up

B x

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Remember that for generations Scots both forced and voluntary have moved into england and there may be more people of scot descent (I am a MAC) here than north of the reaver territory so think that all the blood of generations healing by sharing there burden under one UNITED nation have spent in countless sacrifice abroad so I am emphatically against seperation but dont have a say as I am in Lancashire, Do you really believe once they have there control that these politicians will be any better than the scoundrels in westminster because if you are right then on behalf of the rest of the united kingdom I petition to replace westminster with Hollyrood so dont think we will be gone, ancient hatred againt the sassanax should really be ancient hatred against the normans and that means the aristocracy both south and north of the border.

Did you know the mac clans were danish and norse whom settled in the north west of england and west "Caledonia", these people brought there culture and one of there traditions was that only the eldest son could inherit but they had large familys so boyed by further nordic settlers the next generation invaded Ireland were they became naturalised and galicized with there names being altered to the Gealic equivelent being MAC (so the irish with brian boru never threw the old vikings out they threw the new vikings out), then for two to three hundred years they invaded the Pict lands of Caledonia driving the picts to near extinction and it was only a marriage between the Scot prince (irish viking) and the Pict princess that saved the Pict and unified the country but the Pict traditions and language as well as there culture were lost forever.

It was the picts not the scots whom defeated the hardened roman legion and when you look at a claymore look closely as it is nothing less than a development of the late viking long sword and is almost identical to its sister from europe the bastard sword.

I have always been proud of the scots and my ties to them but now I see petty little men tearing the union apart and part of me want to reciprocate weather they be south or north of the border, we are one unified nation but a house divided will never stand.

LABTECH767
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

Remember that for generations Scots both forced and voluntary have moved into england and there may be more people of scot descent (I am a MAC) here than north of the reaver territory so think that all the blood of generations healing by sharing there burden under one UNITED nation have spent in countless sacrifice abroad so I am emphatically against seperation but dont have a say as I am in Lancashire, Do you really believe once they have there control that these politicians will be any better than the scoundrels in westminster because if you are right then on behalf of the rest of the united kingdom I petition to replace westminster with Hollyrood so dont think we will be gone, ancient hatred againt the sassanax should really be ancient hatred against the normans and that means the aristocracy both south and north of the border.

Did you know the mac clans were danish and norse whom settled in the north west of england and west "Caledonia", these people brought there culture and one of there traditions was that only the eldest son could inherit but they had large familys so boyed by further nordic settlers the next generation invaded Ireland were they became naturalised and galicized with there names being altered to the Gealic equivelent being MAC (so the irish with brian boru never threw the old vikings out they threw the new vikings out), then for two to three hundred years they invaded the Pict lands of Caledonia driving the picts to near extinction and it was only a marriage between the Scot prince (irish viking) and the Pict princess that saved the Pict and unified the country but the Pict traditions and language as well as there culture were lost forever.

It was the picts not the scots whom defeated the hardened roman legion and when you look at a claymore look closely as it is nothing less than a development of the late viking long sword and is almost identical to its sister from europe the bastard sword.

I have always been proud of the scots and my ties to them but now I see petty little men tearing the union apart and part of me want to reciprocate weather they be south or north of the border, we are one unified nation but a house divided will never stand.

edit on 26-11-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

The Only Petty little men who are tearing this Island Apart are those who have sat in power in Westminster,,,,,, Nae mare Wars for Oil.....I'm disgusted with Westminster and i have a chance to get shot of that cesspit for good...I'm sure if The English/Welsh/NI could they would do the exact same...Maybe instead of crying fowl over Scotlands decisions to have a vote on Independence, England et al should stand up and say...enough is enough we also want you out, but hey...Who votes these parasites in....

Not only are they Corrupt, they are blatantly thumbing their noses at us and we just sit back and take it.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Hi LABTECH,
What a stirring and passionate post! Well done on stating your case.
I am a Scot, living in Scotland, and I can assure you that the discussions and debate that I've been hearing up here, have nothing whatsoever to do with hating the sassenachs!

Neither is it aimed at ripping apart or taking for granted, the mutual support and comradeship in arms of the united nations of the UK.

It's more about political self-determination. Control of our own destiny.
For decades now, Scotlands politics have been drifting further and further away from those in the rest of the UK.
We don't feel that the UK government is representative of our own aims and ambitions.
We don't feel that our strengths as a nation are being recognised, nurtured and developed.
We do strongly feel that the UK economy and infrastructure is steadily, relentlessly moving in a direction that favours London and the south, at the expense of Scotland and the north.

Take the high speed rail network as an example.
The UK government are planning on spending over £40 Billion (GB Pounds) on HS2, the new high speed rail network.
That's an equivalent cost of over £1000 for each Adult, living in the UK (Including Scotland).
It will link most of the largest cities in the UK, (mainly with London) improving travel times between those cities and in theory making it easier to commute / travel to meetings / trade events etc. Brilliant!

Except that NONE of those cities are in Scotland. Not one.
The 2 largest cities in the UK which will not be linked-in, are GLASGOW and EDINBURGH in Scotland. Funny that.
The "official" HS2 website even talks about "...Building a connected Britain..." and "...bringing the whole country closer together..." The WHOLE country??

That is of course just one small example, but it is representative of the UK governments' complete and total disregard for the needs, wants and aspirations of the Scottish people, and that is what is regarded as the real problem up here. it's not about the English people. It's not a "them and Us" thing, It is not a "chip-on-the-shoulder" type thing, or even a "braveheart" thing.

It's simply that we, as a nation are coming to the gradual realisation that the London based UK government no longer works for us, no matter how we vote in UK elections. Did you know for example, that the outcome of each of the last eight UK parliamentary elections would have been exactly the same, had no one in Scotland voted at all?
In other words it doesn't matter how we Scots vote in UK general elections, we are outnumbered to the point where we repeatedly get a government that we didn't want.

Please note also that we are talking exclusively about the POLITICAL UNION.

We are not "leaving" Great Britain (we live here!!). We will always be "connected" as friends and neighbours no matter what happens in the referendum. Our relationship with the rest of the UK could even blossom given the chance. A Strong independent Scotland could be a great friend, ally and trading partner to the UK.
Left to follow our own path, to head in our own political and economic direction, and to determine our own future based on our own aspirations, there would be less of a feeling of being neglected/ignored/over-ruled etc.

I think, in simple terms, that an Independent Scotland would look after it's own interests better than a London-centric UK government would. I am not worried about the costs either, because Scotland is a country rich in natural talent and resources. Not just in oil and gas and Whisky, but tourism, wind wave and hydro power, green initiatives, science, technology, architecture, agriculture, fishing, education, the arts - you name it!
We are FAR RICHER in many respects than very many other independent countries throughout the world and we are gradually becoming confident enough to contemplate expressing the belief that maybe... just maybe it is time to prove it.

kindest regards
Gordi

Basically, one group of politicians want to be allowed to fleece the populace themselves, rather then sharing with a larger group of politicians.

As an aside, all Scots are British in the same way that all Glaswegians are Scottish.

And we're all Albions/Albannaich

(Albion being the old name for Britain, now remembered in the gaelic Alba which DOES NOT mean Scotland)

reply to post by AndyMayhew


Well, not quite. This was always my bone of contention with the SNP, that after a Yes vote they would assume control, despite previous assurances there would be an election. According to the White Paper, our first election will be in May 2016, with independence commencing in March 2016.

It looks like I owe fat Alex an apology, he has stood by his assertion. So it's up to us in Scotland to vote in our party. And if we don't like it, there's nothing stopping anyone joining the political process to change it.

This is an opportunity for Scotland to really change things for the better. It doesn't have to be the same any more, where we sit back and take it from a government that couldn't care less about us, so long as we keep paying our way.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Thanks for the read i'm interested. I do very much hope if you all by majority want it than you should get it. just my irish yank 2c

reply to post by Soloprotocol


To use a quote from Gerald Kaufman MP from 1983:-

"That's the longest suicide note in history"

alldaylong
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

To use a quote from Gerald Kaufman MP from 1983:-

"That's the longest suicide note in history"

edit on 26-11-2013 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)

To quote Publius Terentius Playwrite 190-159 BC:-

"Fortune Favours the Brave.

If the Scottish people really believe they're going to get a better deal going it alone then you deserve the consequences. To break from the UK will benefit a handful of people while making no real difference to the majority. I think your politicians just want a bit more gravy on their gravy train.

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


A great post and possibly the best case I've read so far outlining a reasoned rationale for the Yes vote.
I may see many of your points from a slightly different perspective or belief that there are alternative solutions to the valid issues you raise but I can certainly understand and appreciate your reasoning.

I don't think now is the time for me to enter into further debate, I've said my piece for the time being in this thread;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The only thing I'll comment on is your point about HS2 not going anywhere near Scotland - I agree it's shocking and furher evidence if any was needed of the total indifference shown towards the regions of the UK shown by the London /Home Counties focussed powers that govern this island - HS2 is going nowhere near the North East as well, or Wales for that matter.
The East Coast railine is an integral lifeline for the NE, I've got to wonder what the future holds for it bearing in mind Cameron's intention to privatise it yet again now that it's making money - I fear it may be only a matter of time before we are even further isolated from the affluent South.

SearchLightsInc
If the Scottish people really believe they're going to get a better deal going it alone then you deserve the consequences. To break from the UK will benefit a handful of people while making no real difference to the majority. I think your politicians just want a bit more gravy on their gravy train.

ok...lets hear what the consequences will be......is this the best you can do....instil the fear factor into the argument...Do this or you will regret it....c'mon man, you can do better than that...


Project Fear doesn't scare me...Westminster does.

Soloprotocol

SearchLightsInc
If the Scottish people really believe they're going to get a better deal going it alone then you deserve the consequences. To break from the UK will benefit a handful of people while making no real difference to the majority. I think your politicians just want a bit more gravy on their gravy train.

ok...lets hear what the consequences will be......is this the best you can do....instil the fear factor into the argument...Do this or you will regret it....c'mon man, you can do better than that...

Project Fear doesn't scare me...Westminster does.

Not really interested in scaring you mate, if they choose to break from the UK then more power to you - But dont go thinking they'll be no hard times from doing so.

Can you really not see past the Scottish politicians? Do you really think they're trying to do what's best for the Scottish people or what's best for them?

Matter's not a jot to me, your football team will always be Sh!te haha

reply to post by Soloprotocol


A SNP politician on Radio 4 earlier ( I think his name was Sweeney) stated that if Scotland gains independence, the interests rates in Scotland would still be set by the Bank Of England.
The interviewer asked if the Bank Of England says No, what does the SNP have in mind for a Plan B. He had no answer to the question.

SearchLightsInc

Soloprotocol

SearchLightsInc
If the Scottish people really believe they're going to get a better deal going it alone then you deserve the consequences. To break from the UK will benefit a handful of people while making no real difference to the majority. I think your politicians just want a bit more gravy on their gravy train.

ok...lets hear what the consequences will be......is this the best you can do....instil the fear factor into the argument...Do this or you will regret it....c'mon man, you can do better than that...

Project Fear doesn't scare me...Westminster does.

Not really interested in scaring you mate, if they choose to break from the UK then more power to you - But dont go thinking they'll be no hard times from doing so.

Can you really not see past the Scottish politicians? Do you really think they're trying to do what's best for the Scottish people or what's best for them?

Matter's not a jot to me, your football team will always be Sh!te haha

I'll take the hard times ahead over what's on offer From that cesspit by the Thames....

Our National football Team may be #e, but at least we know we are and dont pretend to be anything other than #e.

alldaylong
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

A SNP politician on Radio 4 earlier ( I think his name was Sweeney) stated that if Scotland gains independence, the interests rates in Scotland would still be set by the Bank Of England.
The interviewer asked if the Bank Of England says No, what does the SNP have in mind for a Plan B. He had no answer to the question.

Politicians never answer a question, they usually just waffle crap about something other than the question asked..... give us a link to what "Swinney" Actually said... He's not known for his off the top of his head responses, but he's # hot at Maths..Unlike Gideon.