Bill Would Reduce Welfare Benefits For Women Who Cannot Prove They Were Raped

Originally posted by 200Plus
reply to post by HappyBunny

 

How many of the women on assistance are raising children conceived by rape. Not nearly as many as people are making it out to be. But by all means, show me the proof to back your claims............... don't worry I'll wait.

edit on 1-11-2012 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)

Who cares? Why don't we just give provide the highest level of benefits to ALL women who need regardless of how the child was conceived? That way instead of spending a bunch of money on silly tests, verification processes, and increasing the size and complexity of the bureaucracy we can just put the money directly in the hands of the people who need it.

I promise they will go spend it and help out the local economy.

So what's the problem?

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by 200Plus

 

how much a dad is made to pay is proportional to how much he is making, which leads back to the higher wages, doesn't it?? a man working a minimum wage job isn't gonna have enough taken out of his check to pay for half the support the child would need!!!

Exactly.

You know...we had really low crime rates in this country when we had lots of strong unions and 90% tax rate on the disgustingly rich back in the 1950's.

And the scandinavian countries have really strong unions and really high tax rates on the wealthy too...and they have the lowest crime rates in the entire industrialized world.

Hmmmmm......

Anybody seeing a pattern here?

reply to post by milominderbinder


Ok so welfare is a good thing because it helps the poor gain an education and become contributing members of society. However, the military industrial complex is bad because it allows the poor to get an education and become contributing members of society?

Do you have any idea how many poor join the military for the education benefits?

For the record I don't pay taxes so I could care less if we keep flushing tax money down the toilet. Keep feeding the "help the poor to get better" beast and america will become the same as any other third world nation.

feed the poor - yes
house the poor - yes
educate the poor - yes
enable "poor" to be a career path - no

People don't like me because I refuse to see humans as anything other than animals. We use tools and can think ahead but we are animals. If you dropped a dead cow to a pride of lions evey day, how many generations would it take for lions to forget how to hunt?

reply to post by milominderbinder


Those tax rates aren't "just" the wealthy.

US tax rate: 35% individual/ 35% corporate
Denmark: 51.% individual/ 25% corporate
Sweden: 57.77% individual/ 26.3% corporate
Norway: 40% individual/ 28% corporate
Belgium: 50% individual/ 33.99% corporate
Finland: 51% individual/ 26% corporate

So when you show those countries as the model, you are saying you want all the people to pay higher taxes and the corporations to pay less. Kinda stabbed yourself in the foot there I think.

* I did not include a national sales tax. America has 0%, while those "great" countries you mentioned range from 7% to 25%.

Originally posted by 200Plus
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Those tax rates aren't "just" the wealthy.

US tax rate: 35% individual/ 35% corporate
Denmark: 51.% individual/ 25% corporate
Sweden: 57.77% individual/ 26.3% corporate
Norway: 40% individual/ 28% corporate
Belgium: 50% individual/ 33.99% corporate
Finland: 51% individual/ 26% corporate

So when you show those countries as the model, you are saying you want all the people to pay higher taxes and the corporations to pay less. Kinda stabbed yourself in the foot there I think.

* I did not include a national sales tax. America has 0%, while those "great" countries you mentioned range from 7% to 25%.

Yes....that's what I'm saying.

We should closely model the economic practices of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark. There is a reason they lead the world in just about everything they do. Because it's very similar to the same system WE USED when we USED TO lead the world in everything that we did.

One quick correction though... the US Corporate tax is rate is NOT 35%. It slides all the way up to 44% for "corporations" that all of us peasants own and and operate, like home builders, local restaurants, plumbers, HVAC companies, manufacturers under $500 million/yr in gross revenue, daycares, etc.

The corporate tax rate for large multinational companies in energy, defense contracting, and communications actually pay LESS THAN 0%...EVEN WHILE POSTING RECORD PROFITS.

Below are a few examples and the politicians they bribe.

Verizon Communications
Profits: $19.8 billion Effective tax rate: -3.8%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
President Barack Obama: $51,493
Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.): $24,450
Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.): $23,700
Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio): $22,500
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.): $15,000

General Electric
Profits: $19.6 billion Effective tax rate: -18.9%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
Mitt Romney: $53,750
President Barack Obama (D): $30,493
Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.): $23,900
Rep. Howard Berman (D-Calif.): $21,860
Rep. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.): $19,750

Boeing
Profits: $14.8 billion Effective tax rate: -5.5%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
Rep. Buck McKeon (R-Calif.): $31,750
Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.): $25,000
Former Sen. George Allen (R-Va.): $23,500
Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.): $23,125
Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas): $20,986

NextEra Energy: North America's largest solar and wind power operator, based in Florida
Profits: $8.8 billion Effective tax rate: -2%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
George LeMieux (R-Fla.): $9,500
Mike Haridopolos (R-Fla.): $4,800
Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.): $2,000
Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas): $2,000
Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.): $2,000

American Electric Power: Electric utility based in Columbus, Ohio
Profits: $8.2 billion Effective tax rate: -6.4%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio): $34,750
Rep. Steve Stivers (R-Ohio): $34,050
Rep. Bob Gibbs (R-Ohio): $21,700
Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W. Va.): $19,750
Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio): $18,450

Pacific Gas & Electric: California electrical utility
Profits: $6 billion Effective tax rate: -8.4%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
President Barack Obama (D): $6,250
Rep. Jim Costa (D-Calif.): $5,000
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.): $5,500
Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.): $5,000
Rep. Jeff Denham (R-Calif.): $3,500

Apache: Houston-based oil and gas company
Profits: $6 billion Effective tax rate: -0.3%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
David Dewhurst (R-Texas): $25,000
Rep. Connie Mack (R-Fla.): $5,000
Rep. Bill Cassidy (R-La.): $2,500
Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas): $2,500
Rep. Gene Green (D-Texas): $2,500
Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.): $2,500
Brendan Doherty (R-R.I.): $2,500

Consolidated Edison: New York energy company
Profits: $5.9 billion Effective tax rate: -1.3%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.): $15,050
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.): $8,000
Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.): $6,650
Then-Rep. David Wu (D-Ore.): $2,500
Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-N.Y.): $1,500
Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.): $1,500
Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.): $1,500

El Paso: Houston-based energy company that operates the country's largest natural gas pipeline
Profits: $4.6 billion Effective tax rate: -0.9%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
David Dewhurst (R-Texas): $7,500
Mitt Romney (R): $5,000
Rep. John Barrow (D-Ga.): $3,000
Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.): $2,750
Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.): $2,500
Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.): $2,500
Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.): $2,500
Gov. Rick Perry (R-Texas): $2,500
Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.): $2,500
Sen. Roger Wicker (R-Miss.): $2,500

CenterPoint Energy: Electric and gas utility company based in Houston
Profits: $3.1 billion Effective tax rate: -11.3%
Top recipients, 2011-2012
David Dewhurst (R-Texas): $22,050
Gov. Rick Perry (R-Texas): $13,458
Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.): $10,299
Rep. Greg Walden (R-Ore.): $7,000
Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas): $4,000

Originally posted by 200Plus
Ok so welfare is a good thing because it helps the poor gain an education and become contributing members of society. However, the military industrial complex is bad because it allows the poor to get an education and become contributing members of society?

Incorrect. The military's often bragged about "career training" is more or less useless stateside. Don't take it from me...listen to a couple actual veterans talk about it.
www.thedailyshow.com... er-24-2012/exclusive---economic-reintegration-for-veterans

Yes...there is the whole GI Bill...but the problem with the military ISN'T the the soldier. It's the corrupt politicians and defense contractors who keep building ever-increasingly expensive weapons systems that don't even HAVE AN ENEMY TO FIGHT!! The troops get screwed on their VA benefits so we can build more tanks that military doesn't want or need. I have a proposition...let's just give free education to everybody all the time. Works great for Scandinavia.

Do you have any idea how many poor join the military for the education benefits?

EXACTLY!! The government will pick up the tab if you are willing to kill innocent civilians for the benefit of an oil company...but everybody else is screwed. Nonsense.

For the record I don't pay taxes so I could care less if we keep flushing tax money down the toilet. Keep feeding the "help the poor to get better" beast and america will become the same as any other third world nation.
feed the poor - yes
house the poor - yes
educate the poor - yes
enable "poor" to be a career path - no

That IS enabling them to a career path. We have the right systems...we are just missing two things:

1. We need A LOT MORE government employees...but the kind that we USED TO HIRE. You know NASA scientists, park rangers, teachers, firefighters, less US Army spending and A LOT MORE US Coast Guard spending (lets face it...whether it's drugs, guns, WMD, terrorists or illegal aliens...there's a real good chance it might be coming in via ports and shipping containers) and about 10X the spending in infrastructure contracts to private companies.

2. Take the existing social programs we have and audit them. Right now the tuition cost at public schools keeps exponentially increasing because we let the schools determine their own tuition rates. Fine and great for a private school...but not a public one. Bloomberg is out of his mind wanting to make soda pop illegal in New York...but maybe it makes a lot of good sense to say that FOODSTAMPS cannot be used to purchase the high-fructose death-in-a-can that we call "Coca-Cola". There are a MILLION WAYS to improve these programs...but neither republican nor democrat even thinks about addressing them. The debate is always ONLY on "how much" we are spending...not "WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR THE MONEY WE SPENT".

People don't like me because I refuse to see humans as anything other than animals. We use tools and can think ahead but we are animals. If you dropped a dead cow to a pride of lions evey day, how many generations would it take for lions to forget how to hunt?

Oh...I COMPLETELY AGREE with that. However...let's say you put all the cows behind a 50 foot tall electric fence so the lion's could see them...but just had no realistic way of ACTUALLY GETTING the cows? How long do you think it would be before the lion's turned on ONE ANOTHER??

THAT'S the situation we have now...and long before the lion's forget how to hunt...they will ALWAYS remember how to hunt each other FIRST.

So...we either continue to feel bad for all the poor billionaires and let the division of wealth continue to grow until us remaining peasants start to eat one another...or we can redistribute the wealth in the SHORT TERM with a plan to tear down the electric fence in the LONG TERM so that the rest of the lions can get at the cows too.

Unfortunately, everything in America has to be ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL. If we "believe" in free mkts...then we must "believe" with religious fervor and even allow oil companies to hire standing armies of mercenaries...and if we believe individuals have obligations to society...then we must be advocating full-blown Stalin-esque Communism. We have to treat everything like it's a freakin' religion. THERE ARE NO RULES!!

We can selectively use tools from the "Socialist" tool bag just like we can use tools from the "Capitalist" tool bag....IT DOESN'T MATTER!! The important part is that we are using the right tool, for the right job, at the right time....and it's really not that hard to do, even though the politicians and pundits say it is.

Notice how all of a sudden Chris Christie is totally cool with "Big Government"?? LOL See? It's not so hard to figure out when to use each one after all, is it?

Originally posted by freedomwv
reply to post by 3chainz

 

This bill is simply put; insane. Yes, there are women who `cry rape` but it is very rare and not common at all. When a women says she was raped I am willing to believe that something happened against her will.

Women in poverty who have a child, more so for when the child is a product of rape, need social assistance more than anyone else. It is not easy to be very poor and have a child. Kids view their mother as an angel of loving grace. She is the most perfect person a child knows. When mother cannot provide for that child, it does great damage to the child both mentally, emotionally and physically.

My parents were working class. They both worked very hard but were unable to increase their class status. If it was not for social assistance, my sister and I would have not survived. It was social assistance which helped my parents put food on the table. The extreme right wing does not understand the actual material conditions people are living under. People need help. It is the duty of society to help increase the quality of life for those who are working so hard but simply cannot escape the pit falls of being the working poor.

Touching on the children of rape issue again, when dark elements of society cause twisted acts like rape, and a child is product of that rape, society is responsible for what happened because it is society which created the rapist in the first place. It is also the responsibility of society to seek to understand why we have rapist in the first place and correct what is creating rapist. In any society, none of us are disconnected from each other. Every action we take effects everyone around us.

Treat ladies like garbage and be a general scum bag, guess what your son will grow up to be like? Something to think about.

Actually, no, women who cry rape is actually VERY COMMON! And what happened to raise kids to treat every decent? ATS truly is a cross between radfem and stormfront.

Really, take what you say and apply it to race: Blacks should be raised to treat whites with respect and whites should be raised to be empowered. Doesn't look so nice when you take the genders out and apply race. And why should women be paid for just having an inne? You make it very clear that single fathers are unworthy of public assistance.