What's the Going Rate for an Election Anyway?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Oh yes, do not sit me next to BranJolina or Heaven forbid, Mel Gibson and his daily beaten girlfriend.

While this form of power manuevering may not necessarily be illegal it sure as Hell is not right.

What ever happened to people achieving power through merit, ethics, morals, and a code of honor?

I guess that died well before Rome, Greece, or Asia fell into chaos with warfare in the ancient days.

Originally posted by robbinsj
It is not only money it is who your are. If you where a bush the Saudi's would buy it for you. But for me I would have to be an independant and no amount in the world could buy the seat.

Only backed fairies that sprt and R or a D get that seat.

And therein lies the problem with what I have against the whole process.

We are sold the lie that we can achieve this level of power one day.

If only we put our noses to the grindstone, break our backs, and do good things.

What a crock of crap that we are sold as the truth because the man in the White House was bought into office.

reply to post by carlitomoore


I saw your thread and began clicking the links prior to posting which never happened.

My blood was boiling too hot and I would have gotten banned with my reply.

As well as the F.B.I. or Secret Service might have paid me a visit.

There is something about this I see as a desecration upon which our country stands.

While I certainly see our Constitution as a valid legal doctrine it seems if you have enough money, clout, or organizations, you can flout the entire premise of that document, that the Founding Fathers wrote and signed to keep us out of this very quagmire we are currently within, and it seems to me that they would be rolling in their graves if they only knew the level of corruption, hypocrisy, and conspiracy which exists today in our society riding upon their backs.

If only the citizens knew the things we in the conspiracy theory community knew they would not put up with it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It might be simple and effective but it is not right in any form of the word.

It makes me sick to my stomach that this is how power is perverted in Washington D.C.

Power is supposed to be about having responsibility for those electing you and looking our for their well-being.

Not the corporations which bought your television time, wrote your legislation for you, and flew you around the world.

I guess I am a more honorable individual because I would turn down this type of power because I see it as contrary.

Political Currency : Secret Societies, Those They Blackmail, and the Corrupt Currency...

If you cannot be controlled through corporate interests there is of course blackmail and Secret Societies.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

Host a dinner, rub elbows with bought individuals, tell them who they're going to support for you.

Rinse, lather, repeate.

Corruption at its finest, something I detest, something I see as wrong.

I have never liked someone telling me what to think or do as I see that as idiotic.

I am a free-thinking individual and support only those I see as worthy of my support.

This is a difficult concept for people who aren't in business or don't really know the fine art of networking, but at that upper most Golden Circle of preferred contributors what you are actually paying for is access to, and inclusion in that Network.

The real movers and shakers of your Congressional District are going to be there, they can not afford to not be there.

The right introductions are in fact going to eliminate your need to bid for their business, they will do their business with you, if they have any need at all for your business.

They will expect you to be competent at your business in return.

Let's say you simply mow lawns, all by your self, you don't even have one employee, but you can fork out that 1,000.00 dollars a plate.

You will be touted as "The Lawn Mower" the man who has taken it to an art level, if you care about your lawn you would be a fool not to use your services!

If you care about the cohesiveness of the network you would be a fool not to use your services.

What makes the network, work is everyone sticking together in the network.

In short order you will have more orders to mow lawns than you know what to do with. In return if while mowing my lawn you see me rape, murder and dismember someone, well, you didn't actually see that at all!

If you saw Dick Cheyney help me bury the person, well, you have never even heard of Dick Cheyney let alone ever seen him, especially at my house, helping me bury someone I raped, murdered and dismembered.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's corrupt, as I would say it's a very deterimined effort to hijack the political process, and build a self sustaining network, the collectively has more power as a unit than as seperate individuals.

They simply require descretion, a minimal standard of comeptance at your chosen task and profession, and that you spread the wealth around that they spread to you, if at all possible within the network, especially if you are told to buy your business essentials from specific individuals within the network.

This is in fact what these people are doing, rendering outsiders to be as non-competitive as they possibly can by using the power of the network to make sure, no one outside the circle can get or compete for such lucrative accounts, clients and customers.

Because some of these people are doing a whole lot more than mowing lawns, and have broad and far reaching ambitions, they are absolutely going to need in many cases favorable legislation to make those visions become reality.

The number one job of a bought and paid for congressman is to facilitate the laws that make mergers and acquisitions easier to achieve, so that the biggest corporations can keep eating up the smaller ones, skirting anti-trust laws in the process, and build monopolies that eventually can shut out all competition and have a dicatorial place in their market niche.

The rich and powerful are essentially using the Government to slowly consolidate everything into fewer and fewer hands.

This is ultimately what gives them power over the Government itself, because they control the infrastructure that makes urban life possible.

This is why ultimately the Government will always cave to these mega corporations and oligarchs because they can literally just flip a switch or press a button, and deny millions of people electricity, gasoline, groceries, cash, communications, medicine or medical care, and cause absolute pandemonium and chaos in the process.

The government actually exists as a bulwark, a buffer, a stop gap between the masses and the oligarchs and corporate elite.

Government's job is to push everything back down hill on to the little guy, to find scapegoats amongst the little people, to control the little people, to regulate the little people, and to keep the little people out of the way in that process, while protecting and insulating the oligarchs and the corporate elite.

When the founders were talking about we the people, we the people forget that these were the wealthiest colonialists and movers and shakers, that "We" was referring to, these weren't poverty sticken or disenfranchised people with nothing but ideals. These were people with plantations and businesses and huge land holdings that wanted to manage their own destiny.

They were looking to establish themselves and acquire more and create a system where they could acquire more.

Mainly by getting you to acquire it for them!

They kind of sort of appreciate that by the way, you know when they aren't laughing at us!

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Oh yes, do not sit me next to BranJolina or Heaven forbid, Mel Gibson and his daily beaten girlfriend.

While this form of power manuevering may not necessarily be illegal it sure as Hell is not right.

What ever happened to people achieving power through merit, ethics, morals, and a code of honor?

I guess that died well before Rome, Greece, or Asia fell into chaos with warfare in the ancient days.

These are truly quaint concepts. Some one has been reading the United States Tourist and Travel Brochures again I see!

While they do make a great marketing ploy and sales hook, they simply are not conducive to running a world wide empire.

We live in a Darwinian World of survival of the fittest. That includes often making others fall ill!

so ive read the threads and its has a clear anticorporate tone...........

elections being bought and paid for by corporations..........................but i have not seen any reference made to special interest such as unions..................

unions are just as guilty as any side.................................but corporations buys off both sides...........unions however just buy the left................money comes from every where left and right and foreign.......case in point george soros made all his billions overseas and funds many left wing organizations but i rarley hear any discontent to that man...................the majority of people on this site learn left and only condemn the right........and the left is guilty of the same..........................


so how much does it cost to buy an election well when there are 58 million americans living on social security and another 43 million americans living on welfare and there are around 17 million americans who are unemployed.........dont really have to pay them anything theres 118 million votes that all you really have to do is just make a "promise" that they wont be were they are today tomorrow............and they will buy it...........much like they bought the 2008 election...................

am i wrong? feel free to correct me.....last thought here corporations do not vote those employees to much like a union doesnt vote but their people do............................i know the system is broken or maybe its just not broken maybe people have just woken up to the fact its working clearly how it was designed................meh we all all screwed

reply to post by neo96


When the candidates have all been preselected from an approved pool, then no it really does not matter who votes for who.

Most of what the election is about is giving people the illusion of a representative republic. You simply imagine you are selecting who is going to represent you.

In a way you are, but you are selecting that individual from a small slate of individuals that have first all been selected to represent the Powers that Be.

So who ever you chose suits them just fine.

The fact that you got to make a choice gives you the illusion of a free and fair system.

Once those representatives go to Washington they act independently of you, and are not bound by you.

They are beholden to the people, that got them through the pre-selection process and on to the slate of individuals for you to choose from.

These people who preselected the candidates you get to choose from are the Shadow Government.

Yes they do stage media events with the candidates using unions, special interest groups and political parties, so you have lots of people to assign blame to when the politicians elected don't perform to your standards.

For those who would like to better understand by the end of the 1800's William Garnegie and J.D. Rockefeller owned enough of the infrastructure between them, the oil, the coal, the railroads, the big industries, the banks, that they could effectively begin dictating to the government, because there really was nothing left of vital importance at that point to acquire.

So they got together with their other wealthy blue blood friends, and established a pecking order and a shadow government, figured how how they would handle the education and health system move forward and how they could control the political process while still giving people the illusion that they were actually making the choices themselves and not the oligarchs.

They then started putting their wealth into trusts, and complex spider webs of interconnected corporations and have done their best to appear poorer than they are, philanthropical, and less powerful than they are every since.

In essence people are still showing up to the party, about a 100 years to late, after the game, set and match was already won.

The corporations themselves, the latin root word meaning "in to the body" is just a way to hide who actually owns the preferred stock of these companies, and controls them.

To give you the illusion that these companies are something that are owned annonymously through countless common stock share holders, and are a reflection of some larger group than they actually are.

They are all owned in fact by just a handful of people with the all important perferred stock, often that stock held in various trusts and foundations to further mask the real owners.

The unions in fact where the last good thing this country had going for them, and about the only thing capable of standing up to the Carnegies, Mellons, Rockefellers, DuPonts et al.

Turning Americans against them and destroying them while working to corrupt them from within the whole time, actually eliminated the last obsticale to total dictatorial rule.

You will never ever see living wages again under this present system.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Well you asked...

Turn about is fair play




Thirteen to twenty old ps2 xboxes and at least p3 coms...

About ten spools of soder

four sodering guns

electricity

and at least seven transmitter/recievers

seven months of programing practice and training

Four training runs

Gas in the car for the runs


dont read the next part


ripcontrol in 2012...



next...

Minor campaigning... The key focus is to get on the ballot in 13 states... 11 are the superstates...

electorial college

It is possible to win the election by winning eleven states and disregarding the rest of the country. If one ticket were to take California (55 votes), Texas (34), New York (31), Florida (27), Illinois (21), Pennsylvania (21), Ohio (20), Michigan (17), Georgia (15), New Jersey (15), and North Carolina (15), that ticket would have 271 votes, which would be enough to win

To my good friends in those states... You need anything??? let me know...



and one hundred and thirty thousand dollars to register in each state I believe

you did ask...

lol





That is about the cheapest I could see getting away with on a presidential election...


Now fro a more serious note....

I do like the intelligent replies you have gotten from some people here...

Some of them for the first time are not going at each other... Funny how politics does make strange bedfellows...

The thing is americans know they have been lied to and are being used.... Imagine someone running a such a message... Its even simpler then promising change....

The problem is that they are criminals... It is about time america pulled a card from orson scott card's "Enders' shadow".

"We need to get our own bully to protect us from the other bullies." (Bean)

America needs a crook that belongs to the people, Unfortunately all we have got is the same thing the same character Poke found in the book. A sociopath Achilles.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Exactly !
"We" the people, were then and are now the movers and the shakers,
damn shame of it is they regulated themselves and incorporated themselves out of a comfortable little profit center called the usa when they went global with manufacturing license and eliminated the home consumer, the employee, the end result and required link in their monetary chain.
Their greed killed themselves.
Now, no matter what is promised or proposed, it's unattainable, as you state under the current system,
that's why now, the next move is to SELL THE BLEND.
Gotta blend in, become continental, become the next puzzle piece that fits into the E.U.
I say billions will be spent in the next US election process, and I dont think Barry will carry the ball.
They want their NAU and they will shove it down everyones throats.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Wait, back the truck up, Jack.

While I know you did not mean to offend me you are assuming way too much about me.

I know business, I know networking, I know rubbing shoulders with power people.

This has been taught to me along with everything else I prattle on about regularly.

I do not agree with this premise though because it is not on the level for everyone else in America.

I shook hands with one of Obama's top people in the Democratic party.

Does this make me a mover and shaker?

Not necessarily.

It was because of a connection I made due to the Boy Scouts of America of which I am an adult leader within.

I'm not going to name names, that is unnecessary, besides that I do not want to be associated with him.

On ATS at least.

If I saw anyone rape or murder someone I am going to do the right thing and detain them until the authorites arrive.

Power and having it is not above the law no matter who someone is and no matter how well connected.

If the authorities do not process them, after an arrest, and they are not in the next days news, then we have a problem.

Sorry, I wash my hands of connections like that, covering each others backside, I see that as wholly corrupt.

Without question, without discussion, without any type of looking the other way.

I understand all too well about the cohesiveness of a unit just as I understand this person committing a crime is the weak link.

Cull the herd and get them locked away for the appropriate time, if this repeats, get more severe as necessary.

This is the exact problem with society when bastards look the other way because someone is a political powerhouse.

Discretion is one thing, this however is far past discretion, it is corruption completely and I want no part in it.

This is exactly why I hate politics, not because of discretion, discretion is easy, wholesale immorality however is loathsome.

Damn their God-damed ambitions they are not above the law no matter who the Hell they are.

If Barack Obama committed murder in front of me I would escort his backside to the Supreme Court myself.

If Dick Cheney committed murder in front of me, I would have difficulty not smiling, as I lead him there too.

While certainly these people can make connections and move legistlation faster they only pervert the justice system.

What law is worth looking the other way for a murdering Senator if the law is written or maneuvered by an outlaw?

The Hell with the mega-corporations and the oligarchs because they are the problem with America.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Quaint concepts my hairy white buttocks that is insulting to say the least because I see honor as a last vestige of society.

Marketing ploy?

Sales hook?

Conducive to running a worldwide empire?

To Hell with a worldwide empire if it is corrupt beyond belief.

Honor used to mean something and unfortunately far too many people have forgotten what it does mean.

Leonidas took his 300 plus the 11,400 other Greeks to Thermopylae to defend Greece honor because his politicians were unworthy of trust, because they were bought by Xerxes and Persian gold, betraying their society from within because of greed, lust, and seeking approval of a monster not worthy of stepping upon Greek soil, because he had no honor.

Forgive my going off on a tangent within the thread but this speaks to the historical process of Kings and Queens.

What later became President's and other assorted heads of state.

I know you know I know Greek history well and perhaps this is where your Roman thoughts divide from mine.

There is nothing wrong with honor in the least in my book but do not disparage it or myself through your thoughts.

You and I go quite a ways back and we both respect each other very much but honor is where I draw the line.

As well as corruption within politics, while I am not anti-Government, neither will I look the other way when it strays.

Government, politicians, and those they allegedly represent need to go back to basics and find honor.

For without honor society is doomed to not repeat itself but to a complete and total collapse.

Greece was always vulnerable to betrayal from within, one of the ways I am sure the Founding Fathers remembered, but it is not just people as citizens who betray our United States, it begins at the top, by the examples we are lead by, and while those same signers of the Declaration of Indepdence knew Rome fell because of perversion, corruption, and ultimately taking in far too many conquered people who exposed the weaknesses within it to outside forces, I am sure they wanted our country to be better than either of these ancient countries, especially through combined developing of our countries after the templates of power of old.

I would much rather re-live Leonidas and the pass of Thermopylae than the painful death of the Roman Empire.

Because of his sacrifice at the Battle of Thermopylae Leonidas showed Greece not all Greek's were dishonorable.

Is it any wonder that Ephialtes, the traitor betraying the goat path, is barely remembered, yet Leonidas is honored?

Damn corrupt power and by that the means of achieving an empire because that is only an illusion to perverted power.

An election may be bought, may be guaranteed by networking, may in fact be secured by a perversion of society.

But it does nothing but undermine society as a whole because it starts at the top and flows down hill.

reply to post by neo96


I may not have reference unions within this thread but that is not because they were forgotten.

Merely because they were spoken of in another thread along the same premise as this one.

You can see that in several places but as well please feel free to expand upon that within the boundaries of the thread.

More so than you already have.

Union's use coercion toward forcing people within to vote the same way as everyone else.

Whether they agree with that or not.

My stepfather was terrorized by Union bus-drivers and he took them on and won because he refused to be a part of it.

When six men come up to you when you're sweeping the bus with baseball bats I think you might take it seriously.

He did and he outsmarted them.

If he had gone any other way he would have killed them all due to his Marine training during Vietnam.

And I stand for the same kind of honor he stood then to this day.

reply to post by ripcontrol


Am I reading this correctly?

PS2's connected together sounds like a super-computer.

And I know what you intend to do with it and it not hosting a game-off.

As for the intelligent replies I hope it is because those people respect each other as well as myself.

And through the forming of this thread towards focused discussion without partisan rhetoric.

That's exactly what the thread does not need is someone defending any one side over another.

Civil discussion.

Imagine that, a civil discussion, about politics.

I disagree with the premise quoted from Bean in Ender's Shadow, awesome series, by the way.

We do not need a bully to protect us from other bullies.

What we need is a bully-buster willing to defeat bullies and teach others how to spot bullies and take them down.

Without violence.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


As always good sir you are correct. We need someone who does preform like bean, not Achilles. In the end we both know violence will be involved at the end of the day on this one.

I talked to a few friends and I am considering just taking the Texas Bar Exam. One said he would pay for it only if I could pass.

It would be a first step to that process...

I know that it would be funny in the middle of the divorce to look the judge in the eye and let them know I passed the bar. HEHEHEHe

It would also be a first step to becoming a politician...

The only part bothering my conscious on the whole thing is that at the end of the day I am honest.(remember its 5pm here lol) My ethics might actually keep me out of the office.

The partisan bickering is being pumped up. This thread does go to show that everyone can at least have common ground to stand on.

good, no Great job skl. You have managed to encourage a dialog here...

Sorry I just finished rereading enders shadow again.... My subconscious is leaking...


will post more later...

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by neo96

 

I may not have reference unions within this thread but that is not because they were forgotten.

Merely because they were spoken of in another thread along the same premise as this one.

You can see that in several places but as well please feel free to expand upon that within the boundaries of the thread.

More so than you already have.

Union's use coercion toward forcing people within to vote the same way as everyone else.

Whether they agree with that or not.

My stepfather was terrorized by Union bus-drivers and he took them on and won because he refused to be a part of it.

When six men come up to you when you're sweeping the bus with baseball bats I think you might take it seriously.

He did and he outsmarted them.

If he had gone any other way he would have killed them all due to his Marine training during Vietnam.

And I stand for the same kind of honor he stood then to this day.

At first, I was going to post this as a reply to Neo96 but I changed my mind and decided to reply to this post which already ask for some input from the "union" perspective.

As a retired 4th generation member of an international union, namely the International Longshoremen's Association, I believe that I am more than qualified to address the flat out lies being perpetuated regarding union influence within the political spectrum.

Fact No. 1; Unions are prohibited by law from utilizing "union dues" for political purposes.

Fact No. 2; When unions do collect money from their members for PACs, it must be done on a voluntary basis and each individual who is choosing to donate is required to sign a "check off" notice stating as much and the member has the right to discontinue donations at any time. All donations must be documented and reported to the IRS, right down to the exact amount donated by each individual.

Fact No. 3; International unions are prohibited by law from commingling their funds with those from another nation.

All money used for political purposes which was collected by unions in America has been voluntarily donated by "american workers" representing american households whereas corporations utilize profits generated by their workers, who may or may not be american, to lobby for legislation intended solely to enhance corporate profits, despite the fact that it may eliminate american jobs and lower the american standard of living. I seriously doubt that their "american" workers would either consent to, or voluntarily donated to this type of lobbying effort.

Coming from a union with one of the most notorious reputations in american history, (I'm sure that everyone remembers "On The Waterfront" with Marlon Brando) I also know a little about union tactics or as some would call, "coercion." I do indeed believe the story about your grandfather's experience, although I can tell you that it is not the norm. In my 33 years on the waterfront, I never once witnessed a union official attempting to force a worker to join a union or to force a member to vote against their will. No one was ever forced to walk a picket line and as a matter of fact we even had members who were Jehovah's Witnesses and were forbidden by their religion to participate in a strike, and never forced to do so by the union.

I might also add that during my career as a union longshoreman, I served for 10 yrs. as a labor trustee on the board of directors of our pension, retirement, vacation and health & welfare funds totaling over 500 million dollars. In that capacity I had the opportunity to become very familiar with the practices of many other unions through my association with their trustees at our annual educational conference which usually had some 15,000 trustees in attendance. These people were some of the most devoted and giving people I've ever met and their devotion was always directed at insuring the welfare of the workers they represent.

In another thread, a poster once wrote that they would only be impressed if a union official volunteered their services in representing their workers as opposed to doing it for pay. Or as she put it, to steal or skim union monies. Well I'm not one to brag but when my union fell upon hard times, I personally volunteered to serve as the "Business Agent" for 13 yrs., a job that usually paid $60,000 per yr..

These "hard times" were not limited to my union members but were also experienced by our contractual employers and during that time we negotiated contracts that included 30% pay cuts and 50% job manning cuts to insure their viability.

During that time I earned 100% of my income by working the ships, just the same as every other worker that I represented, while performing the B.A. duties for free. These duties included contract negotiations, taking and posting orders for labor six times a day, supervising all hiring on a daily basis, negotiating dispute settlements up to and through the point of arbitration, collection of union dues, paying of all union bills, etc. etc. etc. For 13 yrs. I did this at a great expense to my current level of pension benefits as volunteer work does not contribute into our pension funds. I challenge anyone to find me a corporate CEO with the same experience.

By and large, when people start bashing unions, they are talking out their asses. Most don't know one damn thing about unions except for what they've heard from nut jobs like Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Most have never been a member of a union or even ever worked one day through a union. They certainly have never been a union official or they would know that these things I'm talking about are true and they would not make themselves look stupid by saying the things that they do. There are bad apples in every walk of life and unions are neither immune to them nor do they have a monopoly on them.

So please, don't even attempt to compare the political donations made by unions to those made by corporations as the donations are being made from two completely different mind sets. One is for workers and the other is for profits. Unions are also well aware that it takes healthy companies to provide workers with steady work and it is not in their best interest to drive a company into bankruptcy. That's why we enter into "good faith" negotiations with our employers to insure that everyone gets a fair shake in the process. Corporations, on the other hand, value profits over all other considerations and the more access that they have to exploitable workers, the more profitable they become.

I believe that all publicly traded corporations probably have some foreign investors whose money should not be allowed to influence the American political system. Unions do not do this! If corporations were even half as regulated as unions are with respect to political donations, things might be different, but again they utilize their donations to lobby against such regulations for themselves while advocating them for unions.

I have never been an advocate for PACs and as a young union member I even objected to the formation of them. It wasn't until I realized the impact that corporate lobbying was having on my life and the lives of my fellow workers that I began donating to our PAC convincing myself that I had to do so under the guise that sometimes you have to "fight fire with fire." In a perfect democracy, paid lobbyist would not be allowed to consult with political representatives. No one other that a living, breathing individual voter should have that privilege and that is where the answer lies, we must outlaw paid lobbyist. I don't know about corporations but I know that union members have much better things to do with their money than to give it to politicians and it is only because we have been forced to do so, that we do.

I guess you can tell that this has struck a cord with me and I will gladly debate any "Neo96s" out there who honestly believe that unions are "just as bad."