..##GOD exists, only if you see it##..

##The truth about Prophets and Messengers##

In my opinion Einstein was a messenger. All these individuals who are considered as Geniuses didn’t just came to existence today, they existed long, long time ago also but the difference in my opinion is that we only accepted their claims recently hence science VS religion. In my opinion these individuals made these claims also in the past and some people accepted their claims and advanced but some didn’t, just like today.

Surah2 – Verse 253: Those messengers – some of them We caused to exceed others, Among them were those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in degree...

According to this Verse two things about messengers:

1 – They exceed others (exceed in what is a question which should be taken in to consideration, is it knowledge?)

2 – GOD has only spoken to some of them and not all. Einstein never claimed he was a messenger, does that mean he wasn’t a messenger? No, not at all. A possibility still remains.

Surah4 – Verse 165: [We sent] messengers as bringers of good tidings and warners so that mankind will have no argument against Allah after the messenger. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

In this verse we learn 2 more things about messengers:

1 - They bring good tidings.

2 – They bring warnings.

Both of these statements can be applied to Scientists today. Good tidings could be the possibility that we can live eternally under the String Theory. Bad tidings could be the possibility of Global Warming.

Surah6 – Verse 34: And certainly were messengers denied before you, but they were patient over the denial, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them. And none can alter the words [ie., decrees] of Allah. And there has certainly come to you some information about the [previous] messengers.

This verse gives us more insight in to previous messengers and what they went through. And some information about them did come to us. Remember when scientists were harmed in the name of witchery, from my point of view those scientists were indeed messengers.

Surah23 – Verse 44: Then We sent our messengers in succession. Every time there came to a nation its messenger, they denied him, so We made them follow one another [to destruction], and We made them narrations. So away with a people who do not believe.

This verse speaks for itself.

Proof that these Geniuses’s did exist in the past and that they did get accepted by some nations:

Enormous stone masses or metal fragments are there; they cannot be argued away. (Photo shows ancient stone hewn from single block and weighs at least 2.4 million pounds. No modern crane could move it. More later.) I believe that this original advanced world, gave impetus to all succeeding civilizations, and is well within the framework of scientific thinking.

The Baghdad Battery, sometimes referred to as the Parthian Battery..

Image:
www.s8int.com...

In 1940 König published a paper speculating that they may have been galvanic cells, perhaps used for electroplating gold onto silver objects.

Image:
upload.wikimedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The Coso Artifact is a spark plug found encased in a lump of hard clay or rock on February 13, 1961 by Wallace Lane, Virginia Maxey, and Mike Mikesell while they were prospecting for geodes near the town of Olancha, California

en.wikipedia.org...

Instead of examining these artifacts in logical manner which simply proves that genius human being didn't just came in to existance but rather they did born also thousands of years ago, but were disregarded by some. Today we can see people hunting using cave man tools, does that mean we are living in a cave man era? It simply proves even more that past civilizations did exist and they advanced through these messengers of GOD who happen to 'exceed others' in understanding.

For searching Quranic Verses visit:
www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/

I have only talked about Artifacts, I haven't taken in to consideration the ancient texts, showing huge understands which cannot be at all known or guessed without technological advances.

reply to post by oozyism


Or, which is statistically more likely, they were just clever people.

Don't denigrate the abilities of man-kind to prop up your god. It's insulting.

reply to post by davesidious


Did you read the OP, or did you just skim through it and saw GOD and saw the insult .. Don't waste my time or anyone else's for that matter.

reply to post by oozyism


If only they came little earlier, eh?

We have suffered centuries of bloodbath, sufferings, wars, brainwashing, etc. Inventions and ideas have been suppressed.

I have a theory but this thread is not the place for it.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Seriously, contribute to the thread, don't post your atheistic slogan here, religion bad, me good, raaaaaaaahhhhh... I get it, the thread is not about that..

reply to post by oozyism


I have contributed to your thread. Like I said, I have a theory about this.

But to suggest that they were messengers from gods is a bit much.

There have been many geniuses in the past. I watched a tv show that compares the number of geniuses the had in the past to today. They were using Greek philosophers as an example. The percentage of smart people were higher back then than it is today.

What do you think contributed to preventing their ideas and knowledge from spreading?

Interesting theory.

However, I do see some problems.

Many people in the world do not study science or even take it seriously as a field of study. Many people are ignorant of scientific themes and history. With that in mind, why would God choose to send His word through science? Many people in the world would not have the opportunity to hear the message.

Also, if God does not require all of his messengers to specify that they are indeed profits, how will non-profits know who to believe and who not to?

More importantly, why does God need prophets to relay his word and teachings? Why does he allow for the possibility of doubting the true messengers? Why isn't every genuine prophet able to exercise some divine power to prove to normal people that they are the real deal?

[edit on 14/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by oozyism


And you point is . . . that all geniuses and messengers are send by God, right?.

Well taking this base in just your opinion you believe is true, but in my opinion is not.

We all send into this earth by a creator and we all have roles to play in life be geniuses, prophets or martyrs.

Humans have the ability to create their own destiny and foretell their own future.


[edit on 14-3-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by oozyism


i don't think Einstein was a messenger ...

A proof of the Finality of Prophethood (Khatmay-Nabuwwat)
Guided by irrefutable word of Allah(SWT) in the Holy Quran and numerous Hadith, Muslims around the world do uniformly believe that, after Prophet Muhammad(SAW), the chain of prophethood has come to an end. According to this fundamental belief, anyone who now claims to be a Prophet of God should be viewed as an impostor, whose claim is contrary to the teachings of Islam.
All Muslim scholars consider such self-proclaimed prophets misguided opportunists, who have doomed their souls for worldly gains. Sadly, those unfortunate individuals, who follow the man-made ideology of such opportunists, won't fair much better in the hereafter, unless they are awakened by the truth of Allah(SWT) and abbandon the teachings of their self-motivated leaders.


It is those who believe not in the Signs of Allah that forge falsehood: it is they who lie!
(The Holy Quran, An-Nahl 16:105)

Close to one hundred verses of the holy Quran, directly or indirectly, support the doctrine of the Finality of Prophethood.

Verse 40 of the Surah Al-Ahzab (33), for instance, highlights this teaching in clear terms.



Two translations of this Ayah follow:


O people! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything.

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
(The Holy Quran, Al-Ahzab 33:40)


The following teachings of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) deal with the issue of Finality of Prophethood. As apparent from the references, these Ahadith are authentic and have been recorded by many scholars and reported by numerous companions of the Prophet(SAW).


My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets.
(Bukhari, Muslim,Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin, Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi)

A new book is available that proves irrefutably the existence of a connection or interface between religion and science. It achieves this mathematical proof by:
1. demonstrating the equivalence of, or isomorphism between, the sacred geometries of Kabbalah, the Platonic solids and Tantric Hinduism.
2. proving that the group mathematics of the Lie groups E8 and E8xE8 at the heart of superstring theory is encoded in these geometries.
It is called "The Mathematical Connection Between Religion & Science." Some of the material that it contains can be found here:
www.smphillips.8m.com...
where it can be ordered.

reply to post by oozyism


I'm not wasting your time. There is no further explanation needed than simply that intelligent people exist, and when they do, they offer insight to the rest of us.

There is no need to use god to explain it. To do so, as I said before, is insulting to the hard work of those we are talking about.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


So I guess you don't take in to consideration the great pyramids? Just because there only some evidence doesn't mean the world was completely blind in the past.. The spread of science was only recent, in Europe specially where people were charged with witch craft..


People were praised in the past for their contribution, hence the architects of the Pyramids were elites within the society..

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by oozyism

 

I'm not wasting your time. There is no further explanation needed than simply that intelligent people exist, and when they do, they offer insight to the rest of us.

There is no need to use god to explain it. To do so, as I said before, is insulting to the hard work of those we are talking about.

Once again you didn't take in to consideration the OP which compares messengers with scientists.. I guess you won't take that in to consideration because you saw GOD in the OP and that ticks you off for some reason..

OK

GOOD DAY TO YOU TOO then..

While there in the Arab world during the Hadj in Ramadan I came to a table of local men,
gathered to the Sheik at one end who asked me if I -being American- liked pornography,
to which I replied; "Sex is stupid, rather I'm into the Scriptures of the world religions!"

He looked with the TV remote through lots of porn and happened upon the Atomic testing
in the Pacific developing the Hydrogen bomb which I showed interest in, after watching it
he said; "The fire of the last day -the great power of Allah- by the messenger given- was spoken of by the Prophet (PBUH), and if it is by the enemies taken then they shall be burned by it, for they can only open it in annihilation to destruction... would that they knew who it is which creates with it!"


[edit on 2010/3/14 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

Why are you trying to blend science with religion ?
You start off by saying Einstein is a messenger and proceed to quote the Quran .. You don't see a problem with that ?

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-Albert Einstein

It is well known that Einstein did not believe in a dogmatic god. He was very clear about this.

The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description .. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.

-Albert Einstein

Your right he is a wonderful messenger .. just not for any dogma.

Again your post shows nothing, Just how you interpret something from a old book to fit what you want to say. Nothing against you .. all religious people do it.

Going hand in hand with your title and the nature of your arguments...

God does indeed only exist if you see him. He's not there until you observe him, and then he's everywhere. I don't see him -- so he's nowhere.

108:1 SELECTION AND ASSIGNMENT

108:1.1 When Adjusters are dispatched for mortal service from Divinington, they are identical in the endowment of existential divinity, but they vary in experiential qualities proportional to previous contact in and with evolutionary creatures. We cannot explain the basis of Adjuster assignment, but we conjecture that these divine gifts are bestowed in accordance with some wise and efficient policy of eternal fitness of adaptation to the indwelt personality. We do observe that the more experienced Adjuster is often the indweller of the higher type of human mind; human inheritance must therefore be a considerable factor in determining selection and assignment.

108:1.2 Although we do not definitely know, we firmly believe that all Thought Adjusters are volunteers. But before ever they volunteer, they are in possession of full data respecting the candidate for indwelling. The seraphic drafts of ancestry and projected patterns of life conduct are transmitted via Paradise to the reserve corps of Adjusters on Divinington by the reflectivity technique extending inward from the capitals of the local universes to the headquarters of the superuniverses. This forecast covers not only the hereditary antecedents of the mortal candidate but also the estimate of probable intellectual endowment and spiritual capacity. The Adjusters thus volunteer to indwell minds of whose intimate natures they have been fully apprised.

108:1.3 The volunteering Adjuster is particularly interested in three qualifications of the human candidate:

1. 108:1.4 Intellectual capacity. Is the mind normal? What is the intellectual potential, the intelligence capacity? Can the individual develop into a bona fide will creature? Will wisdom have an opportunity to function?
2. 108:1.5 Spiritual perception. The prospects of reverential development, the birth and growth of the religious nature. What is the potential of soul, the probable spiritual capacity of receptivity?
3. 108:1.6 Combined intellectual and spiritual powers. The degree to which these two endowments may possibly be associated, combined, so as to produce strength of human character and contribute to the certain evolution of an immortal soul of survival value.

Origin & Nature of Thought Adjusters

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Fuel for the fire.