It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
(visit the link for the full news article)
The report on the five-day war in August 2008 lay blame on both sides, but cited Georgia as starting the conflict with its night shelling in South Ossetia — an act it said was not justifiable under international law.
The EU report went on to blame Russia for conducting a military campaign deep inside Georgia. "All this cannot be regarded as even remotely commensurate with the threat to Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia," the report said.
Putin's invasion revealed an open secret. While the United States is tied down in the Middle East, American guarantees have no value. This lesson is not for American consumption. It is something that, from the Russian point of view, the Ukrainians, the Balts, and the Central Asians need to digest. Indeed, it is a lesson Putin wants to transmit to Poland and the Czech Republic as well.
So here it is Georgia led by US/Israeli commando's did start the war. No more debate
Originally posted by drinkdeep
I think Russia has been in "war" with Georgia for a pretty long time.
Originally posted by drinkdeep
Whatever media puts out there is pretty much old news to Russians don't live there anymore.
Originally posted by drinkdeep
Most of us witnessed how it was at the Russian/Georgian boarder and how Russians Treat you once you cross it.
Originally posted by drinkdeep
How cruel and mean to Georgians they are: harassing them and throwing them in jail for "false" documents.
Originally posted by drinkdeep
I've had to live through that and witness that when I Lived in Sochi.
Originally posted by drinkdeep
So, the whole war between Russia and Georgia is not by any means news to us. I'm sure it will continue until Georgia is finally left alone as it's own country without Russia interfering.
Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.
Originally posted by princeofpeace
Isnt this what all the folks on here are crying about when Hamas or Hezbo launches a few rockets at Israle and then in turn they go level the place? Funny how those same folks chastise Israel for doing it but applaud Russia for doing so.
Originally posted by maloy
Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.
I would like to see the figures behind this "disproportionate force" statements. I know it is what the report states, but quantifying it would help. Russian troop presence in South Ossetia/Georgia was no higher than that of Georgian troops taking part in the fighting. Both sides used artillery, and there was very limited air/sea engagement - with a slightly higher number of jets/ships used by Russia. Also if you look at casualties and destruction of property on the two sides (including South Ossetians counted on Russia's side) - it is nearly even.
So you have Georgia attacking Russian peacekeepers and Ossetian civilians with thousands of troops, artillery, armor, and jets. And then you have Russia's response, with thousands of troops, artillery, armor, and jets - in about the same quantity. What in this scenario is disproportional?
Originally posted by princeofpeace
Isnt this what all the folks on here are crying about when Hamas or Hezbo launches a few rockets at Israle and then in turn they go level the place? Funny how those same folks chastise Israel for doing it but applaud Russia for doing so.
You can't really compare the August War in South Ossetia with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Georgia is a sovereign nation with an organized military force. It's idiot leader launched a military campaign on behalf of his nation, knowing well the consequences of his actions for his country. And Georgia did not launch a "few rockets" - it launched a barrage of directed artillery fire that caused hundreds of casualties, followed up with advancing armor columns.
And expressing understanding behind Russia's intervention and thus siding with it, is not the same as applauding its actions. Russia did what was necessary, even if doing so resulted in some deaths of Georgian civilians. But it would be hard to say that Russia went way overboard with attacking civilian Georgian areas and leveling large part of Georgian infrastructure. Its engagements were mostly limited to Georgian military targets, and Georgian civilian death toll is lower than South Ossetian death toll.
[edit on 30-9-2009 by maloy]
Originally posted by princeofpeace
I read a lot of your posts and i hate to say it, but its difficult to converse with anyone who is SO pro Russian and believes that Russia NEVER does anything wrong.
Originally posted by princeofpeace
Im going to have to wait on the next response....yours are have to be taken with too much salt!! Nothing wrong with national pride though so i dont blame you.
Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.
Originally posted by maloy
Originally posted by princeofpeace
I read a lot of your posts and i hate to say it, but its difficult to converse with anyone who is SO pro Russian and believes that Russia NEVER does anything wrong.
Ah - the old 'when you can't make valid arguement, make an irrelevent personal degrading referrence to try and dismiss the other sides' arguements' routine.
I don't see you conversing right now - I see you trying to degrade me and in doing so trying to avoid the relevent points I made. This topic is not about me and my beliefs, it is about the known events that took place during the South Ossetia was.
Believe me, i know Russia does a lot of wrong. I can give a huge list if you care. When it comes to August war though, I believe Russia's actions are justified, as do the majority of people on ATS. In many cases I try to explain the reasoning behind Russia's actions, and it so happens that most posts on ATS concerning Russia are of negative nature.
In fact I agree that Russia has acted improperly in some instances during the August War - and nothing is black and white. But Russia's faults pale in comparison with Georgia's (in particular Saakashvili's) based on known facts.
Originally posted by princeofpeace
Im going to have to wait on the next response....yours are have to be taken with too much salt!! Nothing wrong with national pride though so i dont blame you.
I am no more pro-Russia than many individuals here are anti-Russia. It just so happens that when it comes to Russian topics, I tend to know somewhat more background than many who take every opportunity to criticize the 'evil commies and their overlord KGB Darth Putin'. Take a look at your own responses and the skewed views in all Russia-related threads, and pass the salt around.
And you can wait for whatever response you want - no need to declare it. You can also blame me if you wish - I really could not care less and taking offense is not my habit.
Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.
I do not agree with everything in that report, and I do not think they substantiated the "disproportionality" claim.
[edit on 30-9-2009 by maloy]