White House set to reverse health care conscience clause

Lets say you're in a 3rd world country working as a doctor or nurse, and a parent comes in and wants to have a female circumcision done on their baby. Is there ANYONE here that would be comfortable doing that? I highly doubt it. Now apply that same repulsion to a health professional in the USA who doesn't want to help in anyway aborting a baby, what do you want/expect them to do?



[edit on 9-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by TheRedneck


My friend as I researched into this so call "reverse of health care conscience clause" it has nothing to do with pushing the services of abortions to doctors.

That is why I said is laws protecting doctors from that again read my lips "it has nothing to do with performing abortions or been forced into performing one"

reply to post by marg6043


Just a few questions:
- Do you think the bureaucrats who referred Jewish people to the concentration camps had no responsibility for their fate?
- If they were only following orders that said they had to have they no responsibility?
- If a majority of the people thought it was necessary for them to refer them so that the German people could have a freer and brighter future does that absolve them of responsibility?
- If someone reported their Jewish neighbour to that bureaucrat because they wanted not to have a Jewish person living beside them does that absolve him/her of responsibility?
- If a bride to be discovered her fiancé was a secret Jew and didn't want him anymore and reported him to the bureaucrat who then referred it to the SS would the bureaucrat have no responsibility?

Referring someone for an abortion is assisting in their procurement of that unborn's termination. Of course I'm aware all these questions will be dismissed by those who declare the unborn are not "persons" as coloured people, Jews, Gypsies, the disabled etc. have been through the course of history. And you know something, the people who believed such things were as entirely convinced they were right as "pro-choice" people today.

reply to post by Supercertari


I always hope that we are after all very intelligent people here.

Again, you don't "need" a doctor referral to a abortion clinic, second you can find one in the yellow pages, let the fingers do the walking

Second this more about the prescription of plan B and birth control pills.

And please leave the Nazi and the Jews alone that was before I even was born and I have been around already for 48 years.

Originally posted by marg6043
anti conception pills

Actually they aren't totally anti-conception pills. They are anti-birth pills. I have read some estimates that women on the pill 'get pregnant' on average 2 times a year but the body ejects the pregnancy because of all the chemicals in the body.

Also - the death chemicals in the birth control pill are made from a company in Germany that supplied the Nazis with the concentration camp poisons that killed the 6 million Jews, hundreds of thousands of catholics, and the physically and mentally challenged.

I had a book that had those figures and that information .... i'll look for it.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Well then what flyers, still it doesn't change the fact that if a doctor doesn't want to prescribe birth control pills he can refer to one than does.

Hell I have fired my fair share of primary doctors over years for their stupidity and I have not problem filing complains against them, still I have learned that for now own I chose one that will cater to my needs first before I even waste my time in their offices

Plain and simple you don't need to be a genius to make the fingers do the walking first before wasting you time with a doctor that is not what you want.

Is a privileged that the patient have, I do and I used all the time.

I had not problem telling my new doctors that the last one I had was an idiot.

Is not laws prohibiting a person from researching on the background of the doctors that they want to know about in their states.

So actually all the ho ho and ha ha here about abortion and doctors been force into performing one is nothing but lame talk.

reply to post by marg6043

Again, you don't "need" a doctor referral to a abortion clinic, second you can find one in the yellow pages, let the fingers do the walking

I totally agree. But I also see a difference between someone making their own 'referral' via changing doctors and a doctor being forced by regulation to refer a patient for a procedure they do not agree with.

Again, this is about more than just abortion. A regulation can apply to a much wider arena than it was originally intended to apply to, based on wording and legal interpretation of that wording. There is a substantial percentage of Americans who would like to see physician-assisted suicide allowed, despite it being in direct opposition to the Hippocratic Oath all doctors are sworn to. Should a patient who requests such a procedure be able to force their physician of choice to either assist in their suicide, or at minimum to refer them to someone who will?

Bear in mind when answering that it takes no stretch of the imagination to envision a day when such a procedure can be deemed legal.

And please leave the Nazi and the Jews alone that was before I even was born and I have been around already for 48 years.

I don't think anyone is accusing you of being a Nazi; rather I read the post you refer to as pointing out the similarities between a Nazi regulation and this issue. There is little in human nature that is truly new. We must remember the atrocities of the past, lest they be repeated in the future with a new label.

TheRedneck

reply to post by marg6043


Don't hope to much in human intelligence, after all it is the suppossedly intelligent who decide to ignore bilogical facts and allow the termination of human lives inventing questions of personhood - inventive liars often pass themselves as intelligent.

I myself have never stated this is to force doctor's to perform abortions - that is an issue without factual basis in this discussion and which is employed to muddy the waters of discourse.

This issue is about obliging doctors to refer "patients" to other agencies who will perform abortions - as you say, and any intelligent person understands - such an obligation is unnecessary where golden pages, etc. are available. Good to see you are in agreement then.

Some have suggested here that Doctors whose conscience does not allow them to make such referrals should choose or have chosen another career. I hope you'll enjoy informing any african-american pro-life doctors discriminated against in the past for the colour of their skin now discriminated against for the colour of their values.

Perhaps medical schools should have signs saying "No Pro-Lifers", the National Guard could be employed to keep them out. As the previous poster suggested, there's rarely anything new in human behaviour.

Again, this thread is been make into what is not, the abotion issue, the sucide issue, all personal choices, is doctors that will do what they do and those that chose not to.

You don't like it then get one that do what you will like he or she to do.

End of discussion about turning this into an abotion issue because is actually lame.

Already the true intentions of the reverse health care conscience clause has been explained, anybody that wants to go the abortion path of the discussion is wellcome to go on.

End of story, I leave you people to debate your abortion at will, I only care about the original topic not the different paths of whay if and what no.

Have fun, I will make sure that when it comes to my doctor my private parts are not an issue of morality for him