Oetzi: was an asteroid responsible for his death?

Originally posted by Vanitas
reply to post by punkinworks

 

Please, tell me you're joking...

Austria? Italy?
Austrians? Italians...?

First of all, Europe can only be divided - more or less accurately, that is - into regions, not countries.
(The political boundaries are, and have been throughout history, FAR too arbitrary to really mean anything.)
And that's exactly what contemporary European policies are geared towards, with a very good reason.

The people who live in the region called Tyrol - in very recent times divided into Tirol (Austria) and the Alto Adige (Italy) - can only be called Tyroleans. Ethnically, the population is very mixed (except for a few valleys), but the predominant family language is German, with the according cultural self-identification.
(It's the truth, as anyone who is familiar with the reality "on the ground" - I am - could attest. I am certainly not going to discuss this any further - it's off-topic, thank God.

)

But at the time, not even the term "Tyrolean" could apply, except as a joke.
We're talking about the Europe of thousands of years ago, when even the continent didn't have its present name!

Anyway, his DNA seems to indicate a Ladino origin, according to this study, which has the added bonus of confirming the plausibility of the "outcast" theory.

To anyone interested in this subject I would recommend Mallory's book In Search of the Indo-Europeans.











[edit on 26-6-2008 by Vanitas]

Are you joking? He was using the modern place names to allow laymen like myself to know exactly what areas of the world we are talking about here.

I would have had no idea what names scholars use to refer to pre-writing peoples as far back as this, so him using modern names for areas really helped.

I've been thinking about this, and it kindof looks like a heroic rescue attempt by Otzi.

He had the blood of someone else on his shirt in a manner that appeared as if he were carrying them, in the source, and Otzi gets shot in the back after a fight, killing two-three more, as attested to his own peripheral wounds and the fact he has a few more different blood stains on him. Perhaps he killed the guards of the local chieftain, who were guarding the hut with his captured wife in, they make a break for it, she get's arrowed in the leg, and can't run, he puts her on his shoulders and hoofs it, gets an arrow in the back, and she is recaptured.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


One could probably come up with dozens of probable scenario. My own favorite is one by an odd micromorphologist who thought Otzi was done in during a HEAVY domination session.

Needless to say, his theory got a lot of snickers and smiles - which faded to rolling eyes and smirks when it was realized he was serious.....

Are you joking? He was using the modern place names to allow laymen like myself to know exactly what areas of the world we are talking about here.

I would have had no idea what names scholars use to refer to pre-writing peoples as far back as this, so him using modern names for areas really helped.

Please, reread the post in question: there was talk of "Austrians" and "Italians".

Besides, I would have thought anyone remotely interested in Oetzi already knew the contemporary - and basically irrelevant - political appellation of the region in question.
Is the name of the region - Tyrol (not "Austria" and not "Italy") - too much for any "layman" to take in?
I shouldn't think so.

Even - or especially - the "lay" public is bound by accuracy.
It's healthy, it prevents misunderstandings or any kind of abuse; and it's not a heavy burden to carry.

Originally posted by Vanitas

Are you joking? He was using the modern place names to allow laymen like myself to know exactly what areas of the world we are talking about here.

I would have had no idea what names scholars use to refer to pre-writing peoples as far back as this, so him using modern names for areas really helped.

Please, reread the post in question: there was talk of "Austrians" and "Italians".

Besides, I would have thought anyone remotely interested in Oetzi already knew the contemporary - and basically irrelevant - political appellation of the region in question.
Is the name of the region - Tyrol (not "Austria" and not "Italy") - too much for any "layman" to take in?
I shouldn't think so.

Even - or especially - the "lay" public is bound by accuracy.
It's healthy, it prevents misunderstandings or any kind of abuse; and it's not a heavy burden to carry.

The phrase "Austrians" or "Italians" in this context means the indigenous tribe(s) of the region on Earth currently included in that modern nation's boundries. He isn't referring to anyone who speaks Italian, and this is quite clear.

True, he should have said "Tyrollians (modern-day Austria)" etc, but I don't see how its a huge issue.

I just happened back on this thread, so I must clarify.

In fact the majority of people who now live in the political entity know known as "Austria" are germanic, but they are late comers showing up in the eastern part of germany,coming from scandanavia about 1000 bc.
Genetic studies and lingustic relationships cleary show the path that germanic peoples have taken through europe.
Oetzi and his people were on of the dozens of waves, maybe hundreds of migrations into europe by people from eurasia.
There are several isotopes of oxygen, that form in distinct combinations of each other, related to geographic location, that can identify where a person was born and where they lived their life.
These isotopes are found in the calcium based minerals of the teeth and bones.
These studies clearly show that Oetzi was born north of the crest of the alps, in what is known as austria. And that he lived most of his life, south of the crest at two places in Italy.
The pollen evidence on his body and incidental plant residue, show that just previous to his death, he was at a place know to have been inhabited for thousands of years.
This place is also around the higest you can go and be snow free most of the year. It sits on hill overlooking the head of a river valley giving a view for miles of anyone coming up the valley.
Items on his person are the similar as that have been found at digs in this place.
He had items on his person that also show a link to a valley north of the crest in austria, a valley that had a village at the same time.
He had a a copper axe and copper coating his hair, the style of the axe is similar to axes made in austria at the same time.
He also seemed to be in decent health for someone of his age, he was in his 40's when he died, pretty darn old for those days.
The fact that his path up the mountain, which is documented by the pollen in his clothes and hair, the plants in his stomach, clearly shows that he started at a lower elevation and climbed as he went.

You only run away into those kinds of mountians if you know yoou have some place to go. And they almost made the crest.


If you go a few hundred years forward you have the emergence of the "beaker culture" a culture identified by its pottery drinking mugs, of all things. They are considered to be a proto-celtic, or a proto-italo/celtic culture.
I think Oetzi was gaulic/celtic, and not germanic or italian(a proto-etruscan people from anatolia?).