A Cloning hypothetical

As we are now getting closer to perfecting the cloning process I have a bit of a poser for you all.
Say we successfully clone a human adult. All would be exactly the same down to every physical disorder and natural blemish. (I say natural as a severed finger for example would not be replicated)
How accurate would the duplication of the brain be? There are so many factors that effect the brains development. The hosts (mothers) diet and living conditions for one. And the environment in which the clone is brought up.

As an example, if we were to clone John Lennon or Frank Zappa would they (after maturing) show the same musical genius as the original given that the world has changed and their original inspirations are not around? Or would Albert Einstein be able to continue on with his previous works and develop them further with the advantage of new technology and recent advancements in science?

reply to post by VIKINGANT


The clone would probably have about the same personality, maybe. It's not well understood how much of a role genetics plays. They would obviously share no memories with the original, so any life changing events the original went through wouldn't affect the clone.

I'm of the opinion that at least a fair portion of exceptionally skilled people's prowess is genetic, and you could probably expect a clone of a famous exceptionally skilled person to be at least pretty competent in their field, or a related field. It'd be a bit much to expect the clone to perform feats as significant as the original, but, hey, it's certainly within the realm of possibility. It wouldn't be very nice, or probably even very smart, to raise the kid with the expectation of genius. That could really mess somebody up for life.

Musical genius I should think would carry over well. Mathematical genius like Einstein or Newton might not. The problems faced by physics today are quite a bit different than when they were around, thanks to their contributions. It could be that they were predisposed to solve certain kinds of problems that have already been solved. Einstein, for instance, couldn't come to accept the implications of quantum mechanics until very late in life, and was perhaps his greatest shortcomings.

Originally posted by mdiinican

They would obviously share no memories with the original, so any life changing events the original went through wouldn't affect the clone.

I'm not quite sure I agree with this. I work as a chemist/biochemist and have done work in the field of DNA technology, and many biochemists believe that if someone suffers a trauma during their lifetime, this is somehow encoded in the DNA. This also provides a plausible explanation of how instinct works.

I must add that this is not proven, but research is being done in the field to find out whether or not this hypothesis is true or not.

There is certainly quite a lot of evidence supporting this hypothesis, but it isn't conclusive.

[edit on 12/5/2008 by Saurus]

Two very different ideas. This is what I am after. I would be very interested in the views of someone with neurological knowledge or something similar.

mdiinican, you said

Einstein, for instance, couldn't come to accept the implications of quantum mechanics until very late in life, and was perhaps his greatest shortcomings.

If there is any memory from the original then would he not then be in a position to further his works from an earlier age. To take the hypothetical even further, if Einstein had lived for an extra 100 years he would have had 100 more years of achievements. In the cloning situation he would be able to pick up where he left off so to speak. Especially if he was educated with his previous works from early on and may even be able to improve or correct some things as he went.

This leads us to

It wouldn't be very nice, or probably even very smart, to raise the kid with the expectation of genius.

There would be ethical issues to deal with in cloning in the first place so if we could get past that wouldn’t those involved want to find out if the above was the case?

Saurus,
In your opinion, would it only be traumatic events that would effect them or general life experiences? Also if it were only traumatic events would it be an actual memory of the event or a general feeling caution if a similar situation arose?

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
Two very different ideas. This is what I am after. I would be very interested in the views of someone with neurological knowledge or something similar.

mdiinican, you said

Einstein, for instance, couldn't come to accept the implications of quantum mechanics until very late in life, and was perhaps his greatest shortcomings.

If there is any memory from the original then would he not then be in a position to further his works from an earlier age. To take the hypothetical even further, if Einstein had lived for an extra 100 years he would have had 100 more years of achievements. In the cloning situation he would be able to pick up where he left off so to speak. Especially if he was educated with his previous works from early on and may even be able to improve or correct some things as he went.

I said that because it really seemed like he came to feel that way due to his personality, not because of a reasoned conclusion, erroneous or not. He was not prepared to accept that parts of reality can only be modeled on a probabilistic basis.

I don't think you can really conclude that if Einstein had lived another 100 years, he'd have continued achieving fantastic things for another hundred years. He was rather unsuccessful in his attempts to create a unified field theory, no more than anybody else, really. It seems like that in his later years, he was more successful as a political activist than he was in science. It might just be that he was a particularly brilliant man, who had just the right sort of mind to solve a select set of very unintuitive problems in an elegant way.

And Saurus- Do you have any links for any of that? Preferably to journal articles (and preferably free), but I'll take whatever you've got. I've certainly never heard anything like that, but I'm in engineering.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by mdiinican]

I would agree with Saurus that sampled DNA would carry with it the imprint of that person's events and experiences prior to it being sampled. Though the clone will not lead an exact day by day life as the clonie, I would think it would have a highly elevated sense of intuition with a touch of paranoia.

Musicians would probably continue to do what they do best, perhaps compose a very familiar song with totally different lyrics, this due to its own life experiences.

On a troubling note, if John Lennon got cloned, does that mean Yoko would too?

Originally posted by Alxandro

On a troubling note, if John Lennon got cloned, does that mean Yoko would too?

Oh please god NOOOO!!!!!!

It is interesting that you say they would have a touch of paranoia? Why would that be? I would understand deja vu experiences however.

Originally posted by VIKINGANT

It is interesting that you say they would have a touch of paranoia? Why would that be? I would understand deja vu experiences however.

Well, I say paranoia for lack of a better word.
What I mean is that if the "clonie" at some point in his life had a traumatic experience, like crossing the street and getting hit by a car, from that point on they would be extremely cautious about crossing any street.
I'm thinking this fear would carry over to the "cloner".

...gee I just thought about something.

Cloner, the "C" word.
If we start cloning people does that mean there will be a new group of people to hate?

So maybe you mean phobic then?
But I have thought about the paranoia thing and there might still a certain degree of that. If there s some residual memory but nothing vivid just a general sense of knowing you probably would get a little paranoid wondering where the feelings or thoughts were coming from. If you weren’t told you were a clone that is and I am sure that they wouldn’t tell you so they could monitor your development without you having preconceived expectations of yourself.