Ice returns as Greenland temps plummet

Seems like you all are trying to prove global warming for or against with this one spot in Greenland. Well, if its any consilation, its colder than a witches tit here and getting colder. We are going to be in the single digits tonight with 20 mph winds. Our lakes are frozen, Im in Missouri. When does everyone start debating global warming over our frozen lakes????

Anyway, just wanted to make a point. They might have some ice in that spot there but......

from RSOE two Climate change events have popped up.

Lush green lawns with no trace of snow, chanterelles sprouting and spring flowers in bloom: winter in Sweden is beginning to look a lot less like, well, winter, meteorologists said on Wednesday. "The month of January has been very mild so far," said meteorologist Weine Josefsson at the Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute (SMHI). With the mild temperatures, spring flowers such as cowslips and wood anemones have already started to bloom in the west of the country, while mushroom lovers are delighted to find chanterelles in the forests in the south. "It's very surprising that chanterelles have already started growing," said Lars-Åke Janzon, a biologist at the Swedish Museum of Natural History in Stockholm, adding that he had "never seen that before".

and lets not forget about Canada

Giant fractures have been cracking open the ice in the Beaufort Sea in recent weeks creating extraordinary stretches of open water and giving researchers from around the world a first-hand look at the Arctic meltdown. "It's shocking to see," says David Barber, a climate specialist at the University of Manitoba. He is heading an international project, involving more than 200 researchers from 15 countries, on the Amundsen, a Canadian Coast Guard ship over-wintering in the Beaufort. "The fractures are huge," says Barber, who recently returned from the Amundsen and says some cracks are more than 100 kilometres across. "We drove our ship down of one of them and you couldn't see the sides of it."

moving down that page a bit it goes on to point out.....

That means Arctic summer ice, which has capped the planet for more than a million years, might be gone by 2010, says Barber.

2010??? HOLY COW

You know, when they go and put it that way, it kind of makes that whole "global warming" debate you all are seem a bit pointless. Argue till your blue in the face either way, because right now I dont think it matters. The climate change that IS happening right now IS going to effect everyone everywhere. Walmart and the grocery stores dont just wave a magic wand and *poof* food. We are past pointing fingers right now. Now, we need to figure out how to protect our arses.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Think about it -- if it's not because of humans, yet it is happening, we still gotta prepare for it. If it's because of humans, but people keep on doubting, it's gonna happen anyway, and we still gotta prepare. Either way, we have to prepare for the inevitable change.

So what's the point of arguing about it?

It matters, because if it is not caused by humans, then what kind of car I drive, etc. doesn't matter. All that ranting and raving about SUV's will have been shown to be nothing more than eco-nazi psycho-babble, or maybe "SUV envy" from people who wish they had one.

We should prepare? Maybe not a bad idea. What are you thinking of here, a mass migration of people living along the coasts of the world to higher ground?

[edit on 1/18/2008 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by Smokersroom
reply to post by centurion1211

 

I'm just an unbiased lurker, but damn you seem really smug.

Since I ought to contribute to this thread in some way - I think it is a global trend toward warming, with added impetus from human activity. That much should be obvious I think.

Smug? A better description would be sure of my views because I've done the research to back them up.

Obvious? You might consider doing something similar for yourself. At least that way you'd be able to offer more than just what you think (feel?) something to be - which BTW doesn't make it reality. That's why we have scientists and others to actually do the research.

Research BTW that points to human-caused global warming to be nothing more than a red herring for the eco-nazi crowd to scare people into following their agenda (without even bothering to find out what their agenda really is). Here's one item from their agenda; they think there are way too many people on the earth. What's their solution to getting rid of a few billion extra people? Research for you to do, but if you find yourself reading about how they want to cut back on the use of technology - the same technology used to feed those extra billions - you'll be on the right track ...

[edit on 1/18/2008 by centurion1211]

reply to post by centurion1211


I'm no fan of eco-nuts either. I find their arguments to be half-baked at best. And the panic-stricken hysteria over CO2 is causing policy makers to make some seriously bad calls. Like using corn or other food crops as biofuel.... what the fish?

Nah, I'm suggesting something more prudent (and tangible), like shoring up the levées of areas at risk from flooding, legislating against building (more) high-rise apartments on slopes that are at risk from mudslides -- stuff like that. If climate change will result in those areas experiencing more extreme weather-related disaster, then it would be prudent to take steps to mitigate the impact of such disasters, no?

Instead of trying to point the finger here and there, identify specific areas that are at risk and take steps to avert a costly disaster, be it monetary or otherwise (lives).

Edit: clarity

[edit on 18-1-2008 by Beachcoma]

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by cavscout

 

That's 16.5 inches. I'd play hockey on it but I don't know if it would hold a large vehicle.

up at the dairy farm in Hershey PA, we had a 3+acre farm pond,
when the ice was a mere 12 inches we could put a plow on the tractor & blade off any snow for a hockey size rink the town folks were welcome to use for skating or whatever

Originally posted by Beachcoma
... legislating against building (more) high-rise apartments on slopes that are at risk from mudslides -- stuff like that.

Legislate? Eccusame?

If some idiot decides to develop in an area that is obviously going to be subject to the changing weather patterns, that's their fault when it fails and they get sued by all the tenants.

That's where I take issue. People thinking more laws or more government is the answer. And you wonder why there's such resistance to the entire concept of climate change. It's not that people don't care about the environment or anything. They don't like force being used against them. If the Green Meanies would quit trying to dictate how people must live their lives, the latter might be more receptive to the suggestions.


>

Originally posted by mrsdudara
Im in Missouri. When does everyone start debating global warming over our frozen lakes????

You see the forecast for next week? -5 here in KC. And on lakes, you remember a few years ago when the waterways in Hell, Michigan froze for the first time in their recorded history? Hell froze over!



[edit on 18-1-2008 by apc]

This just in ...

Russia plunges to minus 67 degrees F!

Moscow, Russia (AHN) - Russians are bracing for temperatures of as low as minus 55 degrees Celsius (minus 67 degrees Fahrenheit) in Siberia as Russia's emergencies ministry warns on Wednesday of its impending dangers in the coming weeks.

and ...

Bloomberg reports that worst hit will be the Siberian region of Evenkiya, while neighbor Georgia, whose climate is subtropical, already plunged to as low as minus 35 degrees Celsius. Lake Paliastomi in the western Georgia froze for the first time in 50 years, reports Rustavi-2 television.

"froze for the first time in 50 years ..." Guess the Russians are still waiting to feel the benefits of global warming (caused by humans - LOL).





[edit on 1/18/2008 by centurion1211]

reply to post by apc


My society is not as litigious as yours. When stuff like that happens (and it does) the blame falls on the government (as it often does) for not providing better regulation and going the laissez-faire way.

Not that they don't sue, but most times they don't. It usually ends up with the victims having to pay more (in legal fees) then what they received in compensation.

Meanwhile England suffers another tropical winter ..... which proves global warming is real

(I'm facing my first winter month on record without an air frost, it's been so mild!)

Originally posted by Essan
Meanwhile England suffers another tropical winter ..... which proves global warming is real

(I'm facing my first winter month on record without an air frost, it's been so mild!)

and yet bloody windy and SO wet. I hate wind, I hate rain. I hate windy rain.

You see the forecast for next week? -5 here in KC. And on lakes, you remember a few years ago when the waterways in Hell, Michigan froze for the first time in their recorded history? Hell froze over!

[edit on 18-1-2008 by apc]

3

Yea I saw that. Im not looking forward to it. Remember last year, I didnt think the snow was ever going to melt. First year in forever we had no strawberries, apples, peaches. Right now it feels like we are in a deep freeze, and Sweeden of all places has green grass and bloomin flowers.

Hell freezing over!!! I remember that!!!

Why was there a mini ice-age in the 1300's?

There was no industry to speak of.

What is happening is a planetary cycle; there is nothing we can do about it. It has happened before and will happen again.

There have been several ice ages in the history of the Earth. What is commonly called the ice age is actually the most recent (Quaternary) which began about two million years ago, and was characterized by cold (glacial), and relatively warm (interglacial) phases.
Four major continental glaciations are recorded in North America. The last (Wisconsin) began about 70,000 years ago, and ended 10,000 years ago. At the peak of the last glaciation, approximately 97% of Canada was covered by ice. Animals and plants that once lived in glaciated regions survived in refuges in Alaska and the Yukon, possibly on Banks Island, and in the northern United States. Probably the thickest ice (approximately 3,300 m) occurred over Hudson Bay. We are presently in an interglacial phase that could last for another 10,000 or more years.

nature.ca...

Why was there a mini ice-age in the 1300's?

There was no industry to speak of.

What is happening is a planetary cycle; there is nothing we can do about it. It has happened before and will happen again.

So you're saying this is just natural because cycles do happen?
That's not an worthy argument imo.
Last century was the first time ever humans had such an impact on our lovely planet. It's proven that the greenhouse gasses act like a sort of blanket that keeps our planet warmer than normal.
That mini ice-age was probably caused by a slight decrease in sun activity. There are written reports from that time that mention an increase in sun spots.

Or do you want to say that all the thousands of scientists are included in this 'conspiracy'?

The "Skeptics" here do know that this year is a La Nina year right? Of course if they were true skeptics they would already know this and wouldn't be stupid enough to call this cold winter proof that Global Warming/Climate Change is a hoax/mistake.

Also not lost in the discussion is the irony. When those that don't believe in global warning are shown numerous instances from around the world they say, "Well that's an isolated incident." But what do we have here? A couple of isolated incidents that they are trying to pawn off as proof GW isn't happening.

Intrepid - Why do people not believe that the planet goes through cycles, which have been documented scientifically?

Through the lenght of the dinosaurs reign, hundreds of millions of years, the planet traversed through many different ages.

What happened to all the glaciers which formed numerous valleys, fjords, etc? They melted millions of years ago............but how did they form?

I think it shows that the planet does infact have cycles.........can humans affect that cycle? undetermined as of yet.

Show the planet may be warming but there is too much emphisis on blaming humans.