~Spoon/Fork bending~ on C2C last night, did you do it?

Alright, so I manage to "borrow" my friends spoon lol...

Anyways so here is an update on my report:


Tested Spoon #1:
Made of Stainless Steel (China).
Physically possible to bend: Yes! While I did manage to bend the spoon, it caused alot of physical constraints and required at least twice of the force as last time. It was very difficult to get it to wind up the neck of the sppon twice, I actually couldnt get it to wind the second time around. An explanation would be I was trying to bend steel, while, I in the other spoon, I was trying to bend aluminum or some sort of weaker metal.

Alterateration of physical property: Yes, similar to the orginal spoon that I bent, this spoon physical property change, it definitely lost its luster and got rougher, but not as bad as the first spoon. Unlike the previous spoon which was easier to spin, this one was so much harder to unwind. I also realize the metal are never perfectly smooth, and always have small are pockets, but when you bend and stretch the spoon, the pores stretch and causes the rugged feel.

Thermoenergy release: Yes, however it wasn't as hot as last time, and the heat dispersed in a matter of a four seconds, however in the original spoon, the metal stayed hot for up from 30 seconds to a minute. It could be that since this soon was compose up of a harder metal than the orginal one, and because it was harder for me to churn or wind the metal, I didn't produce enough force to cause that thermoreaction.

Overall Conclusion: While I did manage to pull physically bending the tested spoon, I realize that I never got the same results as the last one. An explanation why I didn't get one was the two spoons weren't the same type of metal. The tested spoon was stainless steel, while the other one was inconlusive, however the spoon that I bend with 1/64 inch time thicker than the tested spoon, which is pretty signficant.

Another explanation, would be mind over matter. Maybe its not that I was sending energy into our spoon, and changing its property but maybe I broke some mental barrier that would normal constraint me from bending metal. So mind over matter, it could be something much bigger, like manipulating reality.

Anyways overall, I found this first test flawed, it was not controlled well, I didn't use the same type of spoon, and I already had the mentality to bend metal. So, I'm gonna try to get a collections of spoon, and get and see if people can bend it, and try to bend a thicker spoon, maybe 1/16+, stainless steel .

I would also like to add, I'm not a strong or athlethic guy (well maybe I am) but I haven't excerise in like a 1 1/2 year, and have difficulty lifting up even 20lbs of weight . I'm about 5'7, male, weigh about 127lbs, no I'm pulling a paris hilton, I just have a high metabolism and no more muscles, I used to be 140lbs.) And another interesting thing, after I was able to wind the metal, I was able to spin the psiwheel with intense speed and control. When I put up the metal spoon I bend orginally to the wheel, it reacted in the same fashion. So what does that mean? LOL I'll do more research on this...

[edit on 25-4-2007 by skyblueff0]

Jeez, which side of the bed did you wake up on this morning?

Anyway, lets get down to business.

Originally posted by zysin5
No trick to this?? You will assure us here just how? That is the most outlandish claim to make online is that you can move something with your mind.. Lets be clear here.. Do you move these within your mind, thus moving them? Or are you clearly stating you have telekinetic powers that you are able to move an object without staging a performance..

The last one. That is exactly what I am saying. The 'I assure you' part was a figure of speech.
I can't provide any physical evidence of what I can do to you. We are probably talking across few thousand miles, and about the only way I could definitively prove it to you would be to show you in person. Even then you might still say I faked it.

Proving anything to anybody who refuses the concept entirely for no apparent reason(as you don't seem to give one) is completely impossible. It would be a waste of time for me, and for you.

You can do this in a controlled area? Lets say you come to my house, and under my terms, move something of my choice from my home..
I will bet you say, No I cant do that..

Of course I'm gonna say 'no' if you leave the 'terms' unspecified. If you asked me to float something across a room, then I wouldn't be able to do that. If you asked me to uncurl a dollar bill, it would be 'yes'.

The one who defines the terms, wins the argument. Always.

Where when you say its not a laughing matter, your right its not.. And if a person could truly do this, they would sertinly be well known..

And where do you get that idea? Since the concept is rejected by society in general, I don't see why anyone else should except it any more than you are right now. I wouldn't have accepted it at all before I taught myself.

Besides, it's not exactly something I like to popularize about myself. Why? I don't fully trust my abilities, thats why! Just because I've seen myself do it before, doesn't mean I can do it again. It's like any sort of sport. Just because you managed to toss the basketball into the hoop from all the way across the court, doesn't mean you can do it again.

There is ALWAYS a chance that I might fail at my attempt. True, with practice it does come easier, but that doesn't happen fast.

You say you have been doing this for awhile and always learning.. What can you do by the time your 30.. What I see here is you having time to master the art of deception, In these years you learn how to con more and more people into thinking your for real.. Want to put your money where your mouth is?

Fine, you've made your point. I, just like many other people throughout history, cannot force ideas and concepts down the throats of those who are unwilling to even consider them.

Look, in the end it doesn't really matter what you think of me or not. Just because what I say isn't proven to you doesn't mean that it is immediately invalidated.

Am I an egotistical loser who has to do stuff like this on the net to feel good about himself, or am I actually telling the truth?

You decide, goodness knows I can't persuade someone like you.


And one last thing.

If you would like to prove us wrong here, please do!!! I will stand behind any creditable person...

Really? Then I suggest the next time you run into someone who claims that they can do these things, you don't say this:

Uri Geller was proven a hoaxer, and you sound right up his alley, with tricks and manipulating people into buying into your outright lie.

After that, they probably won't want your backing. I certainly don't.

I agree with what Voidmaster has said 100%. TK is a very "temperamental" ability because it is directly controlled by the subconscious mind, not the conscious mind. This makes it very unreliable.

I'll go through some of the problems with TK:

1) Moving an object with the mind is not AT ALL like moving an object with your muscles. Moving an object with your muscles is something you can directly control by causing them to exert more FORCE to move a heavy object. With the mind however there is no FORCE that you can exert more of to move something. So all the grunting and straining you do will not accomplish anything. TK SEEMS to not use force to move something, it seems rather to alter reality itself to accomplish moving something from point A to B. I'm willing to bet that anyone that could slide a FULL glass of water across a table would not spill any of it as inertia does not seem to apply to objects moved this way.

2) Being something that is directly linked to the human mind takes TK out of the realm of hard science and into the more "fluffy" sciences like Psychology, etc. Most people don't realize the rift that exists in the sciences between the two types. Working with the mind is a very difficult proposition as you cannot simply set up an experiment and have it reproducible 100% of the time. There are too many variables especially with TK as you will see next.

3) Unreliable/Variable results. You have a psiwheel (piece of paper balanced on a pin) that you can spin easily? Great! Now change it from paper to aluminum foil. Not so great. You now have to start all over again for an hour or two before you can get it move like the paper one did. Why? Is it because aluminum doesn't work as well as paper? No. It is because you made a change and must now convince your mind that it CAN in fact move the new object. Change the size, shape, type of object, or pretty much ANYTHING and you must start from scratch to get where you were before. It's all in the head, as they say. Doubt will stop your ability cold in it's tracks. The first time I placed a glass over the psiwheel it took me hours before I could get it to move again. On a subconscious level my mind had doubts flitting around in there that blocked the ability. "Will the glass block the TK? Maybe it really was just wind moving it. I probably can't move it as well now" These are all the type of things going through your mind when you try something new like that that will stop it from working, even when some of the thoughts make no sense. Now imagine trying to do this in front of an audience, recorded, in a sterile laboratory, with hostile people all waiting for you to fall flat on your face. Hell even someone like a musician can't perform well under those circumstances. Ask a pianist sometime how badly they play when they have to audition somewhere.


As you can see these are just SOME of the problems with TK. It would make it much easier if we COULD get some actual scientists working on this to figure out how it works exactly. Right now we are blindly stumbling around in the dark. Those of us that can use TK do so by pure luck that we have figured out a technique that works. If we knew the rules and laws governing it then we could work out more effective and efficient ways to use it. This will continue until they stop trying to disprove it and start trying to describe it's properties. I can be quite frustrating.

As for the "Skeptics" they can go sit in a corner and make faces for all i care. I'm not out to prove anything to anyone. Let alone someone that preaches the scientific method while never following it themselves.

Hey Voidmaster, Thanks for replying to my thoughts... Look I think your misunderstanding where I am comming from here..
The only reason I come off to be such a skeptic about this, is becasue I have done it before.. I have studied and found out I have something within me that some do not yet understand.. I have seperated my Yin from the Yang, and have learned how to control my mind and objects around me.. However I was turned into the laughing stock, no one would belive what I did was truthful. I honestly belive in all this, and I have things I can do.. I just am not so bold anymore to come online and talk about it.. I came close to losing my job, and my wife over this maddness.
So I keep it to the privacy of my own space..
I know who I am and what I do.. I know there are many trickesters/ hoaxers who make this into a laughing matter.. I just wanted to see what you had to say when dealing with a skeptical mind.. Tho you dont know me personally, and if I was to bear who I am to you then this test wouldnt have worked out to well... I only come off as a skeptic because Ive learned threw all my time you must tread carefully here.. To many people are just sooo damn willing to jump on the band wagon...
Look man, Ive been there, done some of the things you talk about, however was laughed out of town presay becasue I couldnt do it under the controled nature of scientific tests.. Its something that is left out of science all together, becasue the greatest minds of today still dont know much about this.. So I just wanted to write this here to let you know, Im not trying to hurt you or dis you.. I just had to come off like someone who opposed you, presaying being the bandwagon jumper that is gun hoe about this subject.. Im the opposite! I dont want people to know about me and my gift, becasue honestly its not a gift, we all can do it.. So its more like a gift to all of mankind.. Im an older guy, who has been threw the ruff, and I tend to see those young ones who have these claims, as the hoaxers/trickesters who make who I am much tuffer...
So if you dont mind me sending you a U2 I would be happy to talk with you further.. Unless however your still in the mindset that Im some skeptic who doesnt have much an open mind.. its quite the otherway around..

Peace.
Zysin

Originally posted by zysin5
So if you don't mind me sending you a U2U I would be happy to talk with you further.. Unless however your still in the mindset that I'm some skeptic who doesn't have much an open mind.. its quite the other way around..

Peace.
Zysin

Your story sounds like a sad one, and I can understand how the complete rejection from society hurts. It's sorta happened to me before, but I wasn't nearly as affected as you were, it seems.

Yes, you can U2U me, I don't mind. Heck, I wouldn't have minded a U2U conversation with a skeptic, though not one as violent and assuming as you made yourself out to be.

Peace to you as well,
Void

Originally posted by Voidmaster

Oh what, you mean like this:

It is very truth that people rely on their strength to bend the weakest spot of the spoon. However, when done and practiced properly, one can bend pretty much any part of the spoon.

I still would like to see something almost impossible to bend get bent like rubber.

For instance: cast iron spoon, now I think that would impress many or a 4 inch thick round metal bar, now that would be amazing.

Any footage like that?

Thanks for the other links.

RT

No trick with what I do, I assure you. You don't have to believe me, of course, but that's your affair.

Yes, I am absolutely sure I can move objects with my mind. I am also absolutely sure that it isn't anything like the movies/Heroes. It's a LOT more difficult and tiring then you'd really think. But, with practice, you slowly gain skill to the point of being able to move things easier.

Heck, if I can learn how to unbend a dollar bill in one year, what will I be able to do in 20 years? 30?

It feels oddly natural though, when I move things.

I believe the James Randi Educational Foundation has a million dollars waiting for you. Why not walk in, move something, and take it? Or perhaps your claim can't meet scientific standards of evidence, although in theory of course it would be quite an easy thing to prove! You could make some videos of it, too, and post them on Youtube! or something like that. Again, pretty easy to prove.

EDIT:

Looks like the JREF has changed their guidelines for submissions a bit to refocus on the most prominent liars, erm, I mean psychics, in the media. They also wanted to weed out the mentally ill and others who cluttered the application process.

However, since I want you to have a lot of money for your amazing abilities, I found a list of other ways to make some cash, maybe one is right for you?

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 12-5-2007 by Densha82]

Originally posted by Densha82
I believe the James Randi Educational Foundation has a million dollars waiting for you. Why not walk in, move something, and take it? Or perhaps your claim can't meet scientific standards of evidence, although in theory of course it would be quite an easy thing to prove! You could make some videos of it, too, and post them on Youtube! or something like that. Again, pretty easy to prove.

Are you really that stupid, or do you think I am? No one is gonna believe anything on Youtube, this fact has been demonstrated many times by vid's that are real and still denied by most people.

Now, lets start with the first problem with the JREF. The money is in bonds, which have the convient status of being able to legally be 1 million dollars, and still be worth nothing at all.

You see, a bond is basically an IOU. What Randi is offering is a collection of IOU's which people have given him that amount to 1 millon dollars. Now, what if the companies that gave Randi the IOU's are out of business, or on the verge of bankruptcy? Such a situation would make the IOU's completely and totally void.

Now, the 2nd problem with the bonds is that some bonds don't 'mature' for decades! Basically, assuming I win, the bonds may not be good for anything aside from kindling until something like 60 years have passed. I give it that long to pass, because 60 years from now I'll probably be dead and have no use for them anyway.

The last problem I have with the JREF is that a person I trust has had a bad experience attempting to just ask questions concerning the status of the bonds and who issued them. They never did get answers.

Besides, what are the tests? How do they test the applicants? Those who define the terms always win the argument.

Since you call me a liar you have no reason to believe anything coming out of my mouth, so you could ignore my entire rebuttal anyway.

Because of that, no matter how hard I try I can't win the argument. I can force you to see logic just as well as I could force you to believe me. Neither are possible, so I thought I'd just point that out for everyone watching that doesn't realize it.

However, since I want you to have a lot of money for your amazing abilities, I found a list of other ways to make some cash, maybe one is right for you?

en.wikipedia.org...

Despite the fact that you were being sarcastic, I'm actually going to look through that list and see if I can find some reputable tests.

Thanks for the collection of prizes, I'll go after them one by one when I'm ready to do so. I'm gonna be needing lots of practice for these.

[edit on 13-5-2007 by Voidmaster]

[edit on 13-5-2007 by Voidmaster]

The James Randi point is moot now because of the new standards to send in an application so I'm not going to bother with what you said about it, but I wish you luck in winning some other prize on that list. If you're actually thinking about doing it then I'm a bit surprised that you've really convinced yourself of your non-existent power, in which case I feel a bit sorry for you, but I'm sure it's more likely you're just trying to fool the gullible here and you have no intention of being put to test.

In this day and age, if you can't produce at least a video or two of your magical power then your claims are worthless. If your powers were real you could make it quite obvious on the video that it wasn't hoaxed or that it isn't a magic trick. Multiple videos would also increase credibility. Go to a local news organization, prove your powers, and get on TV under neutral conditions. I mean, people would be amazed to see someone actually move things with their mind! You would be the absolute first person in the world to be able to prove the existence of such power, and yet you sit here posting on some obscure message board? Smells fishy, don't ya think? On the other hand, your video would look foolish I'm sure if your power is not real, which is why I suspect there are no videos of you and there never will be.

You can fool the gullible here and just say that I'm being a close-minded skeptic who will never be convinced of anything (hello? show me evidence, that simple!) or whatever other excuse you want to post. I can sleep easily knowing me and you both know the truth as far as your powers go

[edit on 13-5-2007 by Densha82]

Originally posted by Densha82
In this day and age, if you can't produce at least a video or two of your magical power then your claims are worthless.

Are you suggesting that those who have produced videos of their abilities actually get taken seriously?

You would be the absolute first person in the world to be able to prove the existence of such power, and yet you sit here posting on some obscure message board?

Well, it might be if the majority of the people in the world didn't react the same way you are. In fact, that's why I'm here, because people here don't usually tell me I'm crazy or a liar. They might say that they don't believe me, and I can accept that. While it may be close to calling me a liar, it's also less rude.
I encourage people to try it out for themselves, and I'm been handing out the link to PsiPOG, which I'm sure you've heard of, and repeatedly scoffed and laughed at its contents.

On the other hand, your video would look foolish I'm sure if your power is not real, which is why I suspect there are no videos of you and there never will be.

The reason why I don't have any videos out yet is because I have yet to procure something capable of video taping me. However, that might be changing this summer, so that I and the other people I know who can do this will make some videos. Not that it will really make a difference for you or your beliefs.

You can fool the gullible here and just say that I'm being a close-minded skeptic who will never be convinced of anything (hello? show me evidence, that simple!) or whatever other excuse you want to post.

Why would I try and fool people? I'm not charging money, I'm not looking for attention, I suppose you could think I'm just an idiot who gets an ego boost from lying to people on the net, but that's for everyone to decide by themselves.

You want evidence? About the closest I'm gonna be getting to that is videos, and lucky for you I can show you some. None are mine, but that shouldn't decrease the effect.

Since they are not mine I can give you no promise that they are real(which you probably wouldn't believe anyway), but a few of them certainly are interesting to watch.
www.psipog.net...

Check out the quarter one, far left, 2nd row from the top. It's my favorite, and probably the best video I've seen of TK.

I can sleep easily knowing me and you both know the truth as far as your powers go

I know the truth about my abilities, its you who seems to be ignorant.

You really don't want to believe me, fine go ahead. Let other people decide for themselves whether I'm for real or not.

I'm here for those who need help with learning, not for those who call me a liar.

Well, we are reaching the point that skeptics vs. believers tend to reach in any discussion, so I just have a couple of points to reply to. I'll browse the media in your link later on.

Are you suggesting that those who have produced videos of their abilities actually get taken seriously?

No, which is why I said you would be the absolute first to prove that TK exists. There are reasons why such videos and claims are not taken seriously. I'm sure you would even admit that many of them must be hoaxes, but even the ones that are done well are still able to be explained. To be taken seriously it would have to be recorded under controlled conditions, so that nothing blatantly obvious could be happening (magnet under the table for example, which is kind of crude but I am not an imaginative magician).

I think in my case, as a skeptic, I would like to see videos to prove that there is some trick to it. Obviously I don't think it can be done without some trickery so I would have to see a truly convincing video to believe that something more is going on. If psychics don't take such things into consideration, assuming their power is real, then they only do themselves and others like them a disservice by producing videos under conditions which may suggest some form of trickery. But, anyway, if you had a video, no, I don't think it would be very convincing, which is why I would like to see one. But you never know, maybe you'll surprise me and the world with an unambiguous, controlled test of your abilities with no obvious hoaxing or editing.

Well, it might be if the majority of the people in the world didn't react the same way you are.

But you can at least understand the reaction, right? Even people in the UFO and cryptozoological fields see more hoaxes and just simple normal phenomena instead of aliens in the video and pictures produced thus far. If there is someone who tries to justify every single photo or video released then he is even laughed at by people who believe. I hope you can see the same thing as it pertains to this discussion; people react the way they do because of past experience. The kind of videos I discussed earlier would be a great way to change the perception of people. Also, maybe you need a good publicist to get your powers known to the public through mass media, it would be much easier from there to get yourself scientifically tested and thus produce some very convincing evidence if your powers are proven.

Originally posted by Densha82
I'm sure you would even admit that many of them must be hoaxes...

Most certainly, and readily. It isn't often that you don't get someone just messing around.

If psychics don't take such things into consideration, assuming their power is real, then they only do themselves and others like them a disservice by producing videos under conditions which may suggest some form of trickery.

Here is something we agree on. More of the videos out there need to be done in a better environment, so we can tell whats going on. Of course, many of the videos are just demonstrations amongst peers, and us Psions tend to be a happy-go-lucky, trusting bunch.

A bit too trusting occasionally, but no one's perfect.

But you can at least understand the reaction, right? Even people in the UFO and cryptozoological fields see more hoaxes and just simple normal phenomena instead of aliens in the video and pictures produced thus far.

How can I not understand your reaction? I was quite the skeptic myself not too long ago. I used to think that psychic powers were mildly possible, and only that. It wasn't until I had an experience in Psionics that I 'caught on' so to speak.
The only reason we had this discussion was because you were being aggressive. If you had just said that you didn't believe me, then I would have let you go and not pursued you over it. It's the being called a liar part that I didn't like.

I also understand the comparision(sp?) to Cryptozoology, having spent a fair share of my time in the Crypto section of the board. In fact, its why I came to ATS in the first place.

Originally posted by Voidmaster
If that's your problem, I suggest you watch this video.
www.youtube.com...

Now this is more impressive. I wasn't that impressed by the other video of the guy physically turning it, but watching this man do it with focused energy is pretty amazing.

Originally posted by infinite8

Originally posted by Voidmaster
If that's your problem, I suggest you watch this video.
www.youtube.com...

Now this is more impressive. I wasn't that impressed by the other video of the guy physically turning it, but watching this man do it with focused energy is pretty amazing.

More impressive than you know. Practice makes perfect and this guy has had a LOT of practice.

I have seen forks bent by a friend of mine, WITHOUT FORCE described in all of the posts I can find in here. I have personally seen him rub the neck of the fork to bend a tine out at a right angle from the rest. The tine simply moves as he is rubbing. He seems able to control whether it's the far left or far right tine. To get the middle tines, he runs for a minute or so then violently shakes the fork, after the shaking a middle tine will have bent outward. I have also seen him once, stand in front of a few of us, hold a fork vertically between thumb and forefinger, tines up, and ever-so-slowly spin the fork while, at the same time, rotate the forefinger of the other hand above the fork in the opposite direction, WITHOUT TOUCHING. When he was done, the neck of the fork was twisted. After that, he rubbed the neck of a fork for about 2 minutes, and the "head" simply fell off in a clean break. All of these bends were almost impossible to fix. The strongest guys there had to use all their strength to bend the times back, and the twist was unrepairable. When asked, all he says is "It's an energy thing."