SWAT team takes down child

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I have to disagree about holding companies accountable and changing the design of the guns.

BUT the red paint is cool. Young kids don't mind it at all. When things start to be COOL and you hit the teen years things change. My Son has a old cap and ball toy rifle that one day he did not like the red cap on it and then asked to take it off to make it look more real. I think he was 13 then. I have had him shot REAL guns at a very young age. He know they are locked up but if he wishes to see one all he has to do is ask. He do to treat them like say Explosives or something that If you touch it is going to kill, It is a TOOL, There are other things that kill more people then guns, war & sickness........ CARS are the biggest killers one way or the other!
I see I have posted more then I have aver posted before here! I hope it is a good thing
I am with the OldMan to, Hell I am not that young myself! I was raised with guns in just about aver corner of our house. You never know when that next meal was going to run into your backyard.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
When I was a screener at the airport here, we got several alerts about new plastic guns. They were even colored bright colors like red, and pink like toy dart guns are painted. Imagine how much worse things will be if those ever hit the markets in large numbers.

Wasn't there a scare over the Glock 17 a while back (Polymer frame etc)? Of course in reality, there is more than enough metal on a Glock to set off detectors. Enough barium in the working parts to set it off alone I believe.

These new plastic guns, do they contain almost no metal parts at all?

Originally posted by Captain_Sensible
These new plastic guns, do they contain almost no metal parts at all?

There is not a thing out there unless it is homemade that does not have metal parts. For the most part and the main part of the gun is the barrel. Most bullets have a lot of pressure when they go off. If the barrel can not take that pressure...... it blows up! The very small 22cal short can have a deadly affect it that happens. Metal barrels is the only why to go!
There was a Glock with a creamatic barrel on the board at one time, but That went TS.

Originally posted by TheDayAfter
... Personally I still think that the parents should hold some accountability for such actions as this. Granted at that his age he should have known better and it's truly sad what happened to him but the parents needed to go farther than just warning the police department that the weapon wasn't real. Seems like they're putting the blame on the police department and making them out to be the bad guys. ....

Im pretty sure the parents are going to file a lawsuit against the police dept.. At least that is the way the local news channels hinted at.


This is a sad event indeed, though I do think the SWAT team acted appororiatly, the kid pointed a real looking gun at a trained marksmen is my take on the situation and the outcome was appropriate.


This and several others events that got the SWAT team called happened this week in Seminole County, FL. I am staying out of that area thats for sure.

Originally posted by Mr101Hazardous
There is not a thing out there unless it is homemade that does not have metal parts. For the most part and the main part of the gun is the barrel. Most bullets have a lot of pressure when they go off. If the barrel can not take that pressure...... it blows up! The very small 22cal short can have a deadly affect it that happens. Metal barrels is the only why to go!
There was a Glock with a creamatic barrel on the board at one time, but That went TS.

Hate to tell you this, but we had MANY alerts out for airport security about a European company that had built an all plastic gun, that was on the market, and had actually been stopped in several locations. They were even made in bright colors and looked like toys. And this was like five years ago.

Originally posted by SFRemmy
A Florida SWAT team was killed in to a middle school, after an 8th grader puled a gun and forced another kid into a closet. The 15 year old boy threatened the lives of his classmate, himself, and the officers at various times of the standoff. Eventually the child was shot, and the gun was determined to be a pellet gun.

 

news.yahoo.com
"LONGWOOD, Fla. - A suicidal eighth-grader who pulled a handgun in class and forced another child into a closet was shot by a sheriff's SWAT team member Friday when he later threatened deputies, Seminole County officials said."

The alleged gunman told one of the students to go into a closet, ran from the classroom and "traveled with this firearm throughout the campus," Eslinger said. Deputies eventually isolated him in a restroom, and the school was evacuated."

"At one time he held the gun to his neck. As the deputies attempted to establish dialogue, he raised the firearm and lethal force was used by the sheriff's office," Eslinger said."


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

It's a sad day. You'd think kids wouldn't be so stupid anymore. Especially one old enough like myself to remember Columbine. Either he was serious about this or he just wanted to die. Eitherway, something needs to be done to further gun control. I'm sure if it had been a real gun the kid would've had no hesitation to shoot someone. But, it also makes you wonder how the SWAT couldn't identify it before shooting him, as a pellet gun. Surely they're trained well enough to figure it out. This is just terrible...

****************
Further gun control? Yeah, 'cuz that'll stop them bad guys. Most guns used in violent crimes are obtained illegally anyhow. Furthering gun control only strips the rights from law abiding citizens. It is My Constitutional right as an American to 'keep & bare 'em'.

BTW- I DON'T own firearms because I have small children and I'm not willing to take any chances...but I'll not have My freedom of choice taken away either, nor would most americans.

Peace. K*

Originally posted by Zaphod58
we had MANY alerts out for airport security about a European company that had built an all plastic gun, that was on the market, and had actually been stopped in several locations. They were even made in bright colors and looked like toys

YES, You were alerted to those types of gun, so you would know what to look for. I was thinking about the ones that you would not know about.
Do you know what the Company name was? To be fair, I just know about the ones that were made that worked!
I was just talking to a friend that how we just not to long ago would take guns to school to have them for after school to go to the range with some of the teachers! The worst in a fight at school one would get is a bloody noes. Times change
Teachers can't stop the bad kids by spanking there butts or sending them home for a day or 2 If were my time my father would kick my butt for those 2 days. My Son is 15 years old and 6 foot tall and 180lbs, He knows who his father is and what would happen to him if he fu#$@ up
A note to that to.......... I have never had to spank him once from the time he turned 4. I am very proud of him and his accomplishment! And He know this!!

I would have to agree it would have been better to shoot the gun out of his hand rather than 'shoot to kill'.....

Too bad we don't live in a movie where he could have done that. Even at 10 feet that's almost impossible to do. And what happens if you miss? He turns around and shoots you in the face.

yes I guess... I must be in fantasy la la land

Originally posted by NJE777
yes I guess... I must be in fantasy la la land

For one thing........... You have never had your life threaten by someone have you. You have no clue how that feels our what you are going to till that moment in time. There are people here that have had guns put in there face! It's something one does not like to remember but can never forget. 60% of most cops never have had to pull there gun much less use it to defend themselves or someone.
Don't forget, that Officer must live with what has happen for the rest of his life to! This is not war were you are told to shot the enemy and that is your job. The weapon is to help defend your life and the lives of others.

something needs to be done to further gun control.

Obviously guns are controlled just fine, as he had a pellet gun, and not a 9mm. Gun control, in my opinion, is one of the stupidist ideas ever, and does nothing but infringe on the 2nd amendment. It wouldn't keep guns away from the criminals, only from the good people. If you took away every single gun in this world, people would either start making them, or revert to other weapons.

makes you wonder how the SWAT couldn't identify it before shooting him

They were literally given a split second to make a choice. That gun looked exactly like an actual firearm, so SWAT made the intelligent choice and took him out. I would have done the exact same thing. I'd much rather take out this kid than risk him killing me. I'm sure that SWAT officers saw it the same way.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Some of these toy guns look just like the real ones. The only way to really tell that it’s a fake is by holding it, I’m pretty sure SWAT is not going to get that close .

Imagine telling which one of these is a fake and which one is real in that situation.

[edit on 13-1-2006 by WestPoint23]

The first one and the second one are real the glock is an airsoft gun

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Tear gas would have been a good idea, well, maybe not a good idea, but a better idea (certainly) than shooting the kid.

What about Tazers? I know they have Tazers in Fl., because they're in the papers once a week, getting used on disabled folks, pregnant women, small children, the elderly, and veterans.

The whole thing could have been avoided with better parenting and the steady influence of a responsible, meritous society. Since that's not likely to happen anytime soon, people have to demand more restraint on the part of law enforcement officers.

lmao i used to live in florida and my freind was shot by a police officer with a taser with hooks on it that stuck in his back and the officer would not stop using it for 5 or 20 minutes whie he was disabled he ended up winning a lawsuit

by the way its the glock 17 on the bottom that is fake the one above it is real i only know this because of experience that a swat team member would not have because they have not played with airsoft guns

Originally posted by Mr101Hazardous

For one thing........... You have never had your life threaten by someone have you. You have no clue how that feels our what you are going to till that moment in time. There are people here that have had guns put in there face! It's something one does not like to remember but can never forget. 60% of most cops never have had to pull there gun much less use it to defend themselves or someone.

wow r u always so aggressive??
assuming rather a lot arent u!! ...I merely agreed to an earlier thread and then u tell me I have 'no clue'....What the hell would u know about my life or my experiences!?

R u sure I have never had my life threatened??????????????????

grrrrr

Originally posted by NJE777
wow r u always so aggressive?? R u sure I have never had my life threatened??????????????????
grrrrr

Apologese for sounding so aggressive. or the most part I just keep my mouth shut till I just get to the point of
I know that is not a good thing but I do have a long fuse.
Things that hit close to home get me going. I did not know if you were threatened or not. Most people that have had guns put in there faces tend to not wont to think about it or even remember it.
I did not mean to put You in that kind of fire! I reread what I have said but did not Edit it do to that is just not wright. I stand on what I have said good or bad. I will take for the good and the for the bad and if I say something I will make amends for that to.
Nice grrrrr by the way

All I know is that the third and last gun appear to have a clip loaded into the weapon. They are almost exactly the same.

I am only 20 years old and I have been shot at only a couple of times in my own home city of Tampa, FL. I have never had a gun actually pointed at my head but my father has. He was a detective in Colombia. And for someone who knows how guns fire and would rather die trying to defend himself then sit there and wait he tells me that a single person holding a gun to your head is one of the safer ways to actually get out of the situation.

By attempting to talk the situaion out in the beginng he was able to stall and then surprise him in the middle of their diologue with very HASTEFUL drop down and forceful upward attack to his wrists. This move is something that should be taught in school IMO because it has to be done very fast, precise and forceful. I am not an expert however and I wouldnt claim my advice or my fathers to be a guide for you to defend yourself. I would reccomend practicing just to be prepared.

However dont ever try and run from someone that is pointing a gun at you within 20 feet in an open area if you cant dive for cover in the first second. That just makes you an easy target. If you have cover take it immediately and plan a way to incapacitate the agressor if you have the means, or an escape route if you dont. These are tips my father taught me. It kept him alive long enough to move to America and raise a family.

Like I said the only experience I have had is being shot at in an alley, and once at a pool hall. Alley was very easy to escape a gunman with distance. I got lucky at the pool hall for the reason he was very drunk and actually attempted to shoot at my friend. We were both outside by the corner and managed to escape behind the building and the neighborhood behind.

It is sad this kid forced the cops to kill him and given the situation I won't say I blame them. In this individual situation however, considering the kid never even fired a shot, he was most likely very nervous and would be less likely to fire properly, they were at a very close distance, and the SWAT typically wears heavy gear for protection, I am going to assume maybe some more critical thinking could have been used.

I hope noone I know will ever put themselves in this kind of situation.

I agree with the talking bit..have you ever asked a furious person why they are angry? It is fantastic...they pause to think and then answer ....so does stall the moment...

not that I want to stand in front of a person holding a gun to my head and ask them 'what r u doing? ...why r doing this? ...ego usually urges them to answer

but not willing to put my ass on the line

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
"SWAT team takes down child."

Since when is a 15 year old a child? That doesn't appear in the story, so why sensationalize the story?

Im with you on this one Mirthful Me!

When you read the headline you imagine a baby or a toddler accidentally being gunned down, not a 15 year old threatening people with an imitation gun!