Much of Christianity is caught in a fatal, self-perpetuated hypnotic loop - I was too.

[TLDR at the bottom.]

This is the nature of the loop, though it isn't necessarily limited to these three beliefs and doesn't necessarily have to follow this particular order:

(1) I can't stop sinning, even with the Holy Spirit; therefore (2) I can't lose salvation, otherwise I would have already; therefore (3) my justification is based on my faith alone regardless of what I do.



Let's take a breif look at what the Bible has to say about all three of these common misconceptions. [Please read these verses in their broader context before accusing me of "cherry-picking". It's just not practical to post entire chapters of scripture.]



(1) I can't stop sinning, even with the Holy Spirit;

[Eze 36:27 NASB95] 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

[Gal 5:16 NASB95] 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

[1Pe 4:1-3 NASB95] 1 Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For the time already past is sufficient [for you] to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.

[1Jo 2:1 NASB95] 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[Rom 6:1-3 NASB95] 1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?



(2) I can't lose salvation, otherwise I would have already;

[Jhn 15:2, 6, 10 NASB95] 2 "Every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every [branch] that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. ... 6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. ... 10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

[1Jo 3:9-10 NASB95] 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

[1Jo 3:15 NASB95] 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

[Rom 6:16 NASB95] 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone [as] slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

[Rom 8:5-6 NASB95] 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,

[Rom 8:13 NASB95] 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.



(3) my justification is based on my faith alone regardless of what I do.

[Jas 2:24, 26 NASB95] 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. ... 26 For just as the body without [the] spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

[1Jo 3:17-18 NASB95] 17 But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.

[Eph 2:8-10 NASB95] 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

[Mat 25:45-46 NASB95] 45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

[Rom 2:5-11 NASB95] 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 [There will be] tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

[Luk 8:21 NASB95] 21 But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."


TLDR: If you're in Christ, you're not under the Law, but in the Spirit. Therefore our burden is light but our path is constricted. IT IS NOT TOO DIFFICULT TO WALK BY THE SPIRIT. If you don't walk by the Spirit, you will not be saved on the Day of the Lord. Faith alone is dead faith, like a body without a spirit.

Very inspirational post. Thanks.

These days I pray a lot to St. Michael to help slay my demons. Couple things Ive learned lately is to get coffee, sugar, and even the odd beer out of my life....makes avoiding greater sins wayyyy easier.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

But is loving people a work or is it a natural byproduct of salvation?
It’s a duty, a responsibility but do we love people as a work?
Fruit of the Spirit is the evidence, like an excercise that produces the muscle, we love and become stronger at it
The more we love and forgive, the more we work on loving, the easier it becomes to love

James was pretty clear and if I substitute the word “work” for “deed” in the translation, think it reflects a bit clearer James position
The word “work” seems a bit lose in context

I am not and have never been in Christ because of anything I have or can do

a reply to: Raggedyman

But is loving people a work or is it a natural byproduct of salvation?

It's a work. Faith does not produce works any more than a body produces its spirit. A living soul is a synthesis of body and spirit, just as living faith is a synthesis of belief and work.

Fruit of the Spirit is the evidence

The evidence is the byproduct of work.

James was pretty clear and if I substitute the word “work” for “deed” in the translation, think it reflects a bit clearer James position
The word “work” seems a bit lose in context

The semantics you choose are irrelevant here. The Greek ergon is interchangeably translated as works & deeds in many translations.

I am not and have never been in Christ because of anything I have or can do

None of us earned our way into the New Covenant, but in Christ, we are specifically created for good works. We must be willing to follow through with that. Our free will is not overridden.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yeah, hard to argue but
Not sure its all that black and white

A work is something we do because we have to
A work demands a service fee, a charge, God becomes a debtor to our works and yes, we both know that is silly, so, just stumble over the word "work" in context
Semantics to you maybe, definitely not to me
I do what I do because I want to, because I am happy to serve, with no expectation.

a reply to: Raggedyman

God is a debtor to Himself. Each member of the trinity are co-debtors to one another. In Christ, we are given the privilege to host those transactions, but obedience is still necessary on our end.

If I take an antibiotic for an infection, it's the antibiotic doing the work, not me, but I still have to do the work of taking the drug.

It's really important to use the Bible's semantics, because once we get away from that, truths are improperly divided, and the gaps filled in with error. This is how denominations formed, and it puts a glass ceiling on spiritual growth.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Raggedyman
God is a debtor to Himself. Each member of the trinity are co-debtors to one another. In Christ, we are given the privilege to host those transactions, but obedience is still necessary on our end.

Yeah?
How so?
Think you just made that up
God is love, love does not seek for itself
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

a reply to: Raggedyman

God blesses righteousness. Each member of the trinity is righteous. So, the Father blesses the Holy Spirit, and the Son obeys the Father by obeying the Holy Spirit, therefore, the Father and Holy Spirit bless the Son. As a result, the Son blesses the Father.

[Rom 13:8 NASB95] 8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled [the] law.

We are in debt to love one another just as the Father loves the Son.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


Salvation is not a debt but a gift
The Father, Spirit and Son love each other, trinity, perichoresis.

I dont see your point in your comments, its a word salad, "father obeyong Spirit, therefore blah blah/ co debtors to one another, blah blah" its just talk.
Care to back it up with scripture so I know its not your beliefs, lest "truths are improperly divided, and the gaps filled in with error."
Thanks


Paul was referencing financial debt as opposed to spiritual debt, nothing to do with Father, Son, Spirit blessing anything, anyone

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.


In my first reply, I just asked how you can say "loving others was a work", to me work demands payment, making God in debt to the worker, humanity.
I dont work for God, I do because I love God and serve, no expectations
Seems like a lot of preachy fluff coming at me, irrelevant to my position from my first reply to you in this thread

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Raggedyman
It's a work. Faith does not produce works any more than a body produces its spirit. A living soul is a synthesis of body and spirit, just as living faith is a synthesis of belief and work.

I agree with this, just irks me the word works in context
A work requires a payment, in our society anyway, can be taken out of context

a reply to: Raggedyman

Salvation is just as much a debt as it is a gift. We're redeemed from sin to serve God as slaves of righteousness. Romans 6 explains this. It's also apparent in the Exodus story. Israel was redeemed from Egypt to serve the Lord.

So salvation, justification, and atonement are both transactional and relational, not either/or.

When we walk by the Spirit and incur blessings, it's not us earning anything, but God blessing God for the works of God. We're just the vessels, but we have to be willing.

Similarly, Jesus did not come to be served, but to serve. He became the suffering slave. There is nothing unloving about this. It our modern perception of slavery that makes it difficult to see.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That’s just your beliefs, you made all that up, where is scripture to support that
Salvation is a gift given, accepted, no transaction

You are a member of a cult to say salvation is transactional, to say it’s bought or sold
TRANSACTIONAL | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary
adjective uk / trænˈzækʃ ə nəl / us Add to word list relating to buying and selling:

No wonder there is no logic in your comments, it’s just brow beating people.
Enjoy your thread

a reply to: Raggedyman

brow·beat
/ˈbrouˌbēt/
verb
gerund or present participle: browbeating
intimidate (someone), typically into doing something, with stern or abusive words.
"a witness is being browbeaten under cross-examination"

Where can we see an example of stern or abusive words in this thread?

Maybe this:

You are a member of a cult to say salvation is transactional, to say it’s bought or sold

I really thought we were having a civil conversation for a moment there. I must have triggered your defense mechanisms. How disappointing it is to constantly be browbeaten by my brothers just for sharing a simple truth.

What exactly are you so scared of?

Your first mistake is relying on the contents of the Bible! Your Bible was compiled by Athanasius the bishop of Alexandria at the behest of Constantine the great, over 2000 bishops from across the Roman Empire were invited but only 300+ turned up to give it to seal of approval. In the meantime the real followers of the new religion including the Nazarenes (of which JC was one) opposed Romes control and requested the new religion be based in Jerusalem as opposed to Rome. They were called heretics and banished. Then once his book was agreed at the council of Nicaea Constantine declared himself gods representative on earth. He chose the books you are now quoting and I’m sure he would be very proud of you.

a reply to: redchad

How fitting.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Lol Brilliant come back in a day or two and I’m sure it’ll be guess what (drum role) 667 As for the ever open eye do your research on British military lol the Guards Armoured Division. But I’m sure you will keep quoting Constantine’s book.

Salvation is acquiring the hope not ending up doomed.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Hey guess what I’m 669 now lol.