Uber Batteries

Hello all,

I am not a scholar or scientist by any stretch of the imagination. But I often find myself pondering life’s big questions and issue’s (usually in the shower). Well, I have come to the conclusion that the biggest, most important issue of our times is a renewable, clean, and cheap energy source (duh). I think from an eco, financial, and political stand point its our #1 issue (duh again).

Anyways, I think this is great and noble and all, but I keep coming to the conclusion that mainstream science is overlooking something I think is quite obvious. I keep trying to convince myself there is a reason for science overlooking this, but I cant seem to think why they are missing it.

What is it? Batteries. Yes, the big secret is batteries. Gathering power is actually quite easy. Power is abundant and CHEAP using solar, hydro, and other easy and totally clean sources. The trick however is making this power practical and convenient. None of what I say is a secret, or hardly disputable. But the state of holding this easily generated power is far behind our needs. And that’s the problem. Gas is easy. Fill a tank, burn it up, fill again, rinse and repeat. How can we compete with that? But I don’t need to go into the baggage that comes with fossil fuels (war, pollution, etc)

Of course there are batteries out there. Lithium Ion, Nickel Metal Hydride, Alkaline, and dozens and dozens more. The problem is they aren’t efficient or powerful enough to make them practical in heavy applications. They are heavy, expensive, and don’t hold enough power long enough to do anything more than power our gadgets and gizmo’s.

Where I am going with this is: Why are we spending all this effort, money and science trying to secure more oil and develop “new” sources of power? We have plenty available already. If we spent a FRACTION of that effort developing new ways to make batteries cheaper, lighter and more powerful we wouldn’t need new power sources. Now, I know there is some effort already attempting to make batteries better, but its not a huge effort and certainly not a mainstream priority.

Imagine “super” banks of ultra efficient solar/hydro/wind generators dumping all this virtually free power into “uber” batteries that can power cities, cars, manufacturing plants, etc. Batteries the size of shipping containers powering a whole university or a shopping mall for a week. Or a battery the size of your current car battery powerful enough to power the entire car for a month.

Don’t get me wrong: We will always need some type of combustible fuel. But there is no reason all the “mundane” energy needs cant be solved with current available and cheap power. We could probably replace 90% of the worlds fossil fuel needs if we can figure out a super battery.

Any of you guys agree? We have PLENTY of power, we just need to figure out better ways of using it!! Uber batteries are the key, lets change our priorities and focus.

They already are trying to make uber batteries.. its called Fusion.

With the help of chemistry and physics, modern scientists can produce more energy with a tiny radioactive pellet than they can with several tons of coal, gas, or oil. Come visit this well-documented and researched tutorial on atomic science. There is a nice Periodic Table of the Elements. An excellent site and well worth the visit.

link

Its the same as harnessing the materials found in batteries.. except.. using microscopic elements

What if the solution is here already, but 'they' are waiting to deploy it.

I heard of this story while overseas with the US Air Force in Turkey.

A local contractor's wife ordered a portable CD player from an online company. I came and wouldn't power up at all. They sent it back and got a working one in the mail, --batteries included.

The batteries that came with it were plain white ones, no labels. It powered that CD player (without recharging or swapping for new ones) for about a year.

His theory is that they sent some 'super batteries' with the unit that can hold a lot more power than the store bought kinds.

Really, that was dumb of them. Why would they send out the new "uber batteries?"

I'm sorry but this one has "urban legend" writen all over it.

Do a search for aerogel ultra capacitors, you can actually buy them at the hardware shop, naturally they come in bigger sizes for specialised applications as well...

[edit on 14-2-2005 by Countermeasures]

Here we go folks, sorry if you already know this, but its relative to my topic:

news.yahoo.com...


Nuclear batteries. This my friends, is the first step in replacing oil.

Skippy, there is a frenzied race on right now to develop better battery technologies, mostly spurred by growth in the Mobile Computing industry. More Power Hungry appliances means more demand for higher effiency batteries which wasn't there before. The Tech industry is gonna save us all(Both IT and NT)

www.fuelcelltod ay.com

There is also the Biotech rout as noted in this article about Microbial Fuel cells

www.extremetech.com

This revolution which will dramatically increase the longevity of our handheld devices will make Hybrids that much better and more cost effective in the near term.

Also Brazil has been making alot of noise lately with thier HUGE push towards eliminating thier dependance on oil. They are already 46 % of the way there according to...

www.wired.com

And lets not forget regular H2 Fuel Cells which currently are really expensive due to the amount of platinum it needs. Carbon Nanotubes could eliminate this cost factor.

www.wired.com

So in Conclusion there is an Arm's Race going on in the Energy Storage sector which feels very reminicient of the late 90s when the Tech boom was going strong.

One of the problems with batteries is that they are really heavy, which hinders their applicability in real life situations. That's why lithium batteries are a hot field of research; lithium is the third lightest element, after hydrogen and helium.

I read recently about the nuclear batteries that skippy referred to, those sound pretty cool. I'd like to see research into this area. Those batteries are already so small they can fit into pacemakers and other human implants, and they last 12 years. I don't know what kind of current those can produce, but if we could improve them (or just make bigger ones) for cars, that would eliminate one of the biggest sources of pollution, and that's just a start of what such a battery can do.

The only issue I'm concerned about here is radiaton/nuclear waste. Sure, one battery might not produce much waste, but multiply that by a billion batteries, and there might be a big problem. I'm assuming the radiation isn't an issue since they suggested using the batteries for pacemakers.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Really, that was dumb of them. Why would they send out the new "uber batteries?"

I'm sorry but this one has "urban legend" writen all over it.

I think the answer is simply that they threw in a pair of new Lithium batteries. These are expensive and sometimes do last an exceedingly long period of time. Give them a try.

To skippy:

the claim that energy is cheap and abundant does not seem correct to me.
We still generate a lot of it by burning coal (really bad for the envoronment). If we were to switch to clean energy immediately, the economy would collapse.

Originally posted by Aelita
the claim that energy is cheap and abundant does not seem correct to me.
We still generate a lot of it by burning coal (really bad for the envoronment). If we were to switch to clean energy immediately, the economy would collapse.

Energy is IMENSLY abundant. The problem is converting it into a useful form. It costs more energy to create useable energy (one reason perpetual motion is impossible…so far). The sun alone generates enough energy each and every day to power the planet and then some. But converting solar energy into power for your car or you home is the problem. And that’s where batteries come into play.

Harness the power that’s all around us into ultra efficient batteries can alleviate a ton of fossil fuel usage. These nuclear batteries are a little different; they are more like fuel cells, but a step in the right direction for sure.

But saying there isn’t enough power is an ignorant statement, there is plenty. Making it practical is the challenge.

And as far as saying the economy would collapse, you couldn’t be any further from the truth. Why wouldn’t there be as much money involved with alternate energy sources as with oil? It would be a challenge for some companies to adapt, but the bottom line is, if the population is behind it, the money will be there. If anything, the economy would boom. The only economies that would suffer from “uber batteries” would be ones based on oil sales. (there is you anti Islamic comment for the day Aelita, just for you)

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by Aelita
the claim that energy is cheap and abundant does not seem correct to me.
We still generate a lot of it by burning coal (really bad for the envoronment). If we were to switch to clean energy immediately, the economy would collapse.

Energy is IMENSLY abundant. The problem is converting it into a useful form.

.

Oh I see your logic now. It's like to say that money is abundant and present in large quantities in all areas of the United States. The problem is that there is not enough in my bank account LOL.

And as far as saying the economy would collapse, you couldn’t be any further from the truth. Why wouldn’t there be as much money involved with alternate energy sources as with oil? It would be a challenge for some companies to adapt, but the bottom line is, if the population is behind it, the money will be there.

I would love to see energy coming from clean and removable sources. I agree with more R&D funding we can make more progress in getting there. However, right now these novel sources aren't competetive economically... Otherwise we'd be solar by now.

The only economies that would suffer from “uber batteries” would be ones based on oil sales. (there is you anti Islamic comment for the day Aelita, just for you)

Thanks Skippy, always a pleasure

Seriously, battery is problem isn't the most serious, Skippy. Once you get energy, you can generate hydrogen which then will fuel your car. President Bush allocated more funding to the H2 program, which is great.

But "harnessing" the energy is exactly what is more problematic. I don't care how much energy is contained in a volcano, if I can't tap into it.

I dont think you are getting my point.

Let me paint an imaginary picture to help agrue my point:

Imagine a battery, so powerful and efficient it can power your home for 6 months. Just plug it in. Imagine a battery the size of your fist powerful enough to drive your car for a month that costs less than a tank of gas does today. Imagine body implants like pacemakers and hearing aids that only ever need one battery.

Ever look up and see all that mangled mess on the telephone poles? It’s disgusting and we hardly even notice it. I bet you would notice it if 90% of the lines up there went away. Batteries could do this.

It doesn’t matter how the power gets to the battery or where it comes from. Just know there are many, extremely abundant ways of doing it. But an “uber” battery that can do these things with that energy inexpensively would easily be the biggest invention in the history of mankind.

You mention hydrogen, a great way of creating clean power for uber batteries. But you will never see a hydrogen motor in a watch or a cell phone.

Batteries are the thing guys, and stop thinking “Copper top”, because that’s not what I’m talking about.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Imagine a battery, so powerful and efficient it can power your home for 6 months. Just plug it in. Imagine a battery the size of your fist powerful enough to drive your car for a month that costs less than a tank of gas does today.

Well I see that it tickles your imagination, Skippy. However, if you calculate the amount of energy required to drive for a month (!) and squeeze into a "fist" size object, you'll realize that you'll need storage device based not on chemistry or even on capacitors, but on nuclear energy. LOL. I'm all for its. But it won't be a battery.

It doesn’t matter how the power gets to the battery or where it comes from. Just know there are many, extremely abundant ways of doing it.

Skippy, I'm paying some of the highest residential rates in the US, on my electric bill, so you really picked a wrong interlocutor to try and convince that generating energy (or as you call it, "harnessing" it) is "no problema".

You mention hydrogen, a great way of creating clean power for uber batteries. But you will never see a hydrogen motor in a watch or a cell phone.

Want a bet? There are prototypes of fule cells to power laptops and cellphones, that run on alcohol. Very close to H2, actually.

Batteries are the thing guys, and stop thinking “Copper top”, because that’s not what I’m talking about.

Certainly not. You are speaking about some fantastic energy storage device of unspecified design and operation principles. It's like extolling the virtues of time travel. Yeah, it's cool, so what. Too abstract.

I somehow hate to say that but... it is all a money thing. Think for a minute or two what it would like in the whole world if oil hasn't had its word from now on... The reason why water or flowers are not a source of power yet is there: money. That's it, IMO...

[Edit]
Bad typing skills showing up again...

[edit on 16-5-2005 by SpookyVince]

Originally posted by SpookyVince
I somehow hate to say that but... it is all a money thing. Think for a minute or two what it would like in the whole world if oil hasn't had its word from now on... The reason why water or flowers are not a source of power yet is there: money. That's it, IMO...

[Edit]
Bad typing skills showing up again...

[edit on 16-5-2005 by SpookyVince]

It IS a money thing. But once the population tells big business what they want through thier buying habbits, then it will happen. And its starting to shift right now.

Toyota just announced that the Camry is going hybrid!!! Do you guys understand how huge this is? Economically speaking? Its Earth shattering, the Camry is the #1 selling car in the USA and it will be a hybrid!

So, the "its all about the money" thing is totally correct, but what you guys arent thinking of is, the money is going to be with the batteries and clean renwable power soon. Like tomorrow!

Also Ford and GM are in talks with Toyota to bring it's proprietary Hybrid technology over to American cars, as soon as the 2007 series of models. You are right when you say "But once the population tells big business what they want through thier buying habbits, then it will happen. And its starting to shift right now."

Power gobbling Mobile Computing and Oil Prices are providing the incentive to develop these technologies. Dell is supposed to ship it's first computer powered by an Ethonol Fuel-Cell by 2006.

Going Green is an Investment not a Cost

[edit on 17-5-2005 by sardion2000]