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Renovating BS from the '70's.
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I just need to rant about my current renovation project.
Our house was built in 1922. We've slowly been renovating it for the past 4 years, bit by bit, no loans.
New windows...easy; and we sold the old windows to antiques salvagers to boot.
New siding and insulation from the outside...not "easy", but straightforward.
New drywall in all of the upstairs...knock out the plaster, clean it up, hang the drywall.
Everything else we've done...nothing to hard.
But now...I've decided to finally update the small downstairs bathroom. This room and the kitchen were the only rooms not in original condition when we moved it. They were renovated in the 70's by a local "handy-man" to the tastes of the incredibly eccentric hoarder who lived here before us. Everything...EVERYTHING, in this bathroom was installed, not using nails, screws or any other fastener, but with industrial strength brown adhesive.
The (avocado green) tub is glued to the floor and walls. The walls are covered in tile board, glued to other 70's tile board. The medicine cabinet is glued into the wall studs. The linoleum is glued to the floor (so much so that we can't get it off, and will just cover it over). The vanity is glued to the wall. Trim is glued to tile board and glued to plaster.
F*^% you, '70's handy-man (I know where you live), why throw away perfectly good building methods from the 20's, which, although they were outdated by today's standards construction-wise, were easy to update and looked somewhat timeless, to f-ing glueing everything to anything you could stick it to?
I will probably avoid at all costs ever purchasing a home that has updates from this era that are un-remodelled ever EVER again.
Why was the '70's sucked into some sort of orange/brown/green hellhole?
Our house was built in 1922. We've slowly been renovating it for the past 4 years, bit by bit, no loans.
New windows...easy; and we sold the old windows to antiques salvagers to boot.
New siding and insulation from the outside...not "easy", but straightforward.
New drywall in all of the upstairs...knock out the plaster, clean it up, hang the drywall.
Everything else we've done...nothing to hard.
But now...I've decided to finally update the small downstairs bathroom. This room and the kitchen were the only rooms not in original condition when we moved it. They were renovated in the 70's by a local "handy-man" to the tastes of the incredibly eccentric hoarder who lived here before us. Everything...EVERYTHING, in this bathroom was installed, not using nails, screws or any other fastener, but with industrial strength brown adhesive.
The (avocado green) tub is glued to the floor and walls. The walls are covered in tile board, glued to other 70's tile board. The medicine cabinet is glued into the wall studs. The linoleum is glued to the floor (so much so that we can't get it off, and will just cover it over). The vanity is glued to the wall. Trim is glued to tile board and glued to plaster.
F*^% you, '70's handy-man (I know where you live), why throw away perfectly good building methods from the 20's, which, although they were outdated by today's standards construction-wise, were easy to update and looked somewhat timeless, to f-ing glueing everything to anything you could stick it to?
I will probably avoid at all costs ever purchasing a home that has updates from this era that are un-remodelled ever EVER again.
Why was the '70's sucked into some sort of orange/brown/green hellhole?
a reply to: Atsbhct
I feel your pain ...Too bad ,because of the glue most if not all that might have been saved and put into a camp or cottage will end up in the dumpster . The 20's did put some good quality work out .the 70's came along with it plastic and glue and it became more disposable then fixable .Kind of like most of the cars from the era .
I feel your pain ...Too bad ,because of the glue most if not all that might have been saved and put into a camp or cottage will end up in the dumpster . The 20's did put some good quality work out .the 70's came along with it plastic and glue and it became more disposable then fixable .Kind of like most of the cars from the era .
a reply to: Atsbhct
Because everyone who ran a style mag back in those days, had just spent their formative years higher than the ISS, listening to the trippiest possible music, swallowing, snorting, or other wise inhaling the very best narcotics one could imagine.
These bathrooms, and colour schemes more generally, are what I like to call canvas. It doesn't matter how bad they look, because the idea of them is that the resident should never actually look upon these colours or surfaces in an unaugmented state, instead painting their minds with all the tie die insanity that a night of heavy pharmaceutical abuse can create.
That is my read on it anyway.
Because everyone who ran a style mag back in those days, had just spent their formative years higher than the ISS, listening to the trippiest possible music, swallowing, snorting, or other wise inhaling the very best narcotics one could imagine.
These bathrooms, and colour schemes more generally, are what I like to call canvas. It doesn't matter how bad they look, because the idea of them is that the resident should never actually look upon these colours or surfaces in an unaugmented state, instead painting their minds with all the tie die insanity that a night of heavy pharmaceutical abuse can create.
That is my read on it anyway.
a reply to: Atsbhct
Prop up the ceiling, saws-all everything out, start with new walls, etc.
I feel your pain - we always get fixer uppers because they start out affordable, at least until you renovate.
We currently have one of our dogs slowly removing a completely glued down linoleum floor, we're waiting til he gets the whole floor chewed out before we put in something he can't chew....
You forgot to mention purple. We have a purple bathtub 😕
Prop up the ceiling, saws-all everything out, start with new walls, etc.
I feel your pain - we always get fixer uppers because they start out affordable, at least until you renovate.
We currently have one of our dogs slowly removing a completely glued down linoleum floor, we're waiting til he gets the whole floor chewed out before we put in something he can't chew....
You forgot to mention purple. We have a purple bathtub 😕
In 1964, Macco introduced its first construction adhesive, PA-12, and it was branded LIQUID NAILS Adhesives in 1968.
www.liquidnails.com...
well, that explains it,some fool back in the 70`s saw the word nails on the tube and decided this must be the new state of the art high tech replacement for nails so he used it on EVERYTHING, LOL
a reply to: Atsbhct
You accomplished A LOT. My house is 1918. Thank god there is little if any '70s renovation showing. There are some changes from the '50s and it seems to have jumped to the late '90s. Lots of original stuff.
Too much 'creative' electrical work was done. 3 electricians have not been able to find where the wiring goes from lighting going upstairs, the upstairs hall and a decorative wall lamp at the top of the stairs. The wiring for the door bell seems lost or cemented in. Some people have done some really odd things with this house, but thankfully not with glue and not in the '70s.
Some absolute idiot made the upst airs bathroom smaller, with a shower stall, to put in a cedar linen closet. Llke the closet. Everything you put in it remains smelling fantastic. But would have rathered a larger bath upstairs.
Then they decided to build onto the downstairs bath. It appears to me it waas a half bath and they built into part of the den to add a tub and shelving.
Someone sided over any outside electrical outlets.
Sadly, the foundation is sinking and there are some other problems I will never be able to afford to fix.
I do say F U to the people who did do some absolutely inexplicable things though.
They changed the fireplace from woodburning to gas too. Once you go gas....you can REALLY never go back. They removed fireproofing that stands up to a wood fire.
You accomplished A LOT. My house is 1918. Thank god there is little if any '70s renovation showing. There are some changes from the '50s and it seems to have jumped to the late '90s. Lots of original stuff.
Too much 'creative' electrical work was done. 3 electricians have not been able to find where the wiring goes from lighting going upstairs, the upstairs hall and a decorative wall lamp at the top of the stairs. The wiring for the door bell seems lost or cemented in. Some people have done some really odd things with this house, but thankfully not with glue and not in the '70s.
Some absolute idiot made the upst airs bathroom smaller, with a shower stall, to put in a cedar linen closet. Llke the closet. Everything you put in it remains smelling fantastic. But would have rathered a larger bath upstairs.
Then they decided to build onto the downstairs bath. It appears to me it waas a half bath and they built into part of the den to add a tub and shelving.
Someone sided over any outside electrical outlets.
Sadly, the foundation is sinking and there are some other problems I will never be able to afford to fix.
I do say F U to the people who did do some absolutely inexplicable things though.
They changed the fireplace from woodburning to gas too. Once you go gas....you can REALLY never go back. They removed fireproofing that stands up to a wood fire.
edit on 26-6-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Atsbhct
Tardacus beat me to it -- the invention of Liquid Nails.
I also feel your pain. The house we live in and remodeled was built in the 70. In our case, quite a few structural corners were cut; they didn't do a rough-in for the plumbing of the tub in the bathroom, but instead set the tub on the ground, and poured the concrete of the floor up to it. Make matters worse, the lip of the tub extended over the concrete block, so they just cut the block and poured a piece, making it a structural tub. It was also frickin' PINK. I could have gone through dozens of expensive blades to cut it out, or....... what I did........ burnished it and coated with four layers of black epoxy.
We also had a liquid nailathon that happened in the our house's history. VAT floor tile, masonite wallboard, bathroom vanity, baseboard, door trims, window trims. Okay, I get it that it's a tweak more difficult to drill into concrete/plaster and do it right, but.... da-yum!! As you discovered, Liquid Nails is really well named and holds a stronger bond than the materials that are attached.
You just have to set your jaw and rip that crap out, and put new things in that somebody someday will be able to renovate without cursing your name and your children and pets. I'm glad you made this thread though; it's good to know that we're not always alone struggling with the slapdash "fixes" of yesteryear.
I will use Liquid Nails for attaching plywood roof decking, along with 2 1/2" sharps screws. Glued and screwed. Very little use for it anywhere else.
I feel better. Do you feel better?
Tardacus beat me to it -- the invention of Liquid Nails.
I also feel your pain. The house we live in and remodeled was built in the 70. In our case, quite a few structural corners were cut; they didn't do a rough-in for the plumbing of the tub in the bathroom, but instead set the tub on the ground, and poured the concrete of the floor up to it. Make matters worse, the lip of the tub extended over the concrete block, so they just cut the block and poured a piece, making it a structural tub. It was also frickin' PINK. I could have gone through dozens of expensive blades to cut it out, or....... what I did........ burnished it and coated with four layers of black epoxy.
We also had a liquid nailathon that happened in the our house's history. VAT floor tile, masonite wallboard, bathroom vanity, baseboard, door trims, window trims. Okay, I get it that it's a tweak more difficult to drill into concrete/plaster and do it right, but.... da-yum!! As you discovered, Liquid Nails is really well named and holds a stronger bond than the materials that are attached.
You just have to set your jaw and rip that crap out, and put new things in that somebody someday will be able to renovate without cursing your name and your children and pets. I'm glad you made this thread though; it's good to know that we're not always alone struggling with the slapdash "fixes" of yesteryear.
I will use Liquid Nails for attaching plywood roof decking, along with 2 1/2" sharps screws. Glued and screwed. Very little use for it anywhere else.
I feel better. Do you feel better?
a reply to: Atsbhct
The oldest house I ever worked on, was constructed in 1895. A lady friend of mine was the owner, and having come into an inheritance from her deceased grandmother, she made the leap onto the property ladder with immediate effect.
She had actual builders in to deal with the serious issues that the structural survey had bought up, although being so old, and given that surveyors never catch everything, there was always going to be more work on the cards than one would hope. Everything was a pain in the rear end, because not only had the couple who had previously lived in the home been the only residents until their eventual removal to care homes, or death, but they had just painted or papered over previous colours and styles, rather than stripping back to the bare walls.
The last major overhaul of this property had been in the seventies.
As a result of this, every door had to be carefully stripped of its lead paint, as did every skirting board, dado rail, picture rail, and doorframe. When we came to remove paper from the walls, it became apparent that some sort of hybrid mixture containing the raw piss of Satan had been used to apply the paper, requiring each room have man hours sunk into it to the same degree that an OCD play through of Fallout 3 or 4 might.
When dismantling fitted wardrobes, we discovered that the metal bars which were the hanging rails were sunk two and a quarter inches into the chimney breast, and the wall alike, and when the paper was gone from the walls in that room, we discovered that the walls were a pockmarked, crater strewn vista, filled with unidentifiable precursors to polyfila, of such insane consistency that only calling in a plasterer to reduce the volume of the room by covering over these imperfections would solve the problems these protrusions presented.
Even when the bulk of the work was completed, there were problems. The nastiest of these involved a pipe buried so deep inside a wall, that when it started to leak (the fellow who fixed it reckoned not long after the water was turned on for the first time since the purchase went through) it had taken months to show on the inside skin of the building. This wall had to be near enough dug out, and work undertaken within the resulting concavity, to put the pipe work right. Although a lot of work had to go into it, the finish was nice enough, and the lady owner had lodgers to help cover the cost to a degree.
She bought a couple of other properties (heavily mortgaged) and did those up too, but I had stopped associating with her by that point, for reasons not at all to do with the amount of graft one tended to put in on her account. Tis a shame, because she knew how to wear a set of overalls, and indeed, how not to.
The oldest house I ever worked on, was constructed in 1895. A lady friend of mine was the owner, and having come into an inheritance from her deceased grandmother, she made the leap onto the property ladder with immediate effect.
She had actual builders in to deal with the serious issues that the structural survey had bought up, although being so old, and given that surveyors never catch everything, there was always going to be more work on the cards than one would hope. Everything was a pain in the rear end, because not only had the couple who had previously lived in the home been the only residents until their eventual removal to care homes, or death, but they had just painted or papered over previous colours and styles, rather than stripping back to the bare walls.
The last major overhaul of this property had been in the seventies.
As a result of this, every door had to be carefully stripped of its lead paint, as did every skirting board, dado rail, picture rail, and doorframe. When we came to remove paper from the walls, it became apparent that some sort of hybrid mixture containing the raw piss of Satan had been used to apply the paper, requiring each room have man hours sunk into it to the same degree that an OCD play through of Fallout 3 or 4 might.
When dismantling fitted wardrobes, we discovered that the metal bars which were the hanging rails were sunk two and a quarter inches into the chimney breast, and the wall alike, and when the paper was gone from the walls in that room, we discovered that the walls were a pockmarked, crater strewn vista, filled with unidentifiable precursors to polyfila, of such insane consistency that only calling in a plasterer to reduce the volume of the room by covering over these imperfections would solve the problems these protrusions presented.
Even when the bulk of the work was completed, there were problems. The nastiest of these involved a pipe buried so deep inside a wall, that when it started to leak (the fellow who fixed it reckoned not long after the water was turned on for the first time since the purchase went through) it had taken months to show on the inside skin of the building. This wall had to be near enough dug out, and work undertaken within the resulting concavity, to put the pipe work right. Although a lot of work had to go into it, the finish was nice enough, and the lady owner had lodgers to help cover the cost to a degree.
She bought a couple of other properties (heavily mortgaged) and did those up too, but I had stopped associating with her by that point, for reasons not at all to do with the amount of graft one tended to put in on her account. Tis a shame, because she knew how to wear a set of overalls, and indeed, how not to.
Keep on it!..Sound's like you're making progress.Best wishes..:]
a reply to: Atsbhct
Ahhhh the 70's...
As a kid, our entire house was a combination of avocado green, pumpkin orange, lemon yellow, and chocolate brown. Appliances, bathroom fixtures, faux brick panels around the fireplace, faux wood panelling on the walls... and wallpaper covering every fricken surface of the house including the insides of cupboards and drawers.
And then when the 80's hit, my mom went through her red, black, and white phase. We had burnt sienna red appliances and that awful damask patterned black velvet wallpaper throughout the house.
To this day, I hate wallpaper with a passion.
Then the 90's hit and the entire world got covered in dusty rose and grey or pale peach and grey. And yes, I too fell victim to the dusty rose/grey fad with my own place.
*sigh*
Fads, gotta love em.
Our current home was built in the 20's with a lot of beautiful woodwork thoughout. Problem is, we had to strip down through about 6 or 7 layers of paint to get to it. You could tell what decade you were getting to just by the colour of the layer of paint you were hitting... and sure enough, when we hit the avocado green layer, I knew we were in the 70's !
And instead of tearing down wallpaper, we just ripped out all the plaster and lathe, and replaced it with drywall (as well as rewiring/plumbing, reinforcing the studs by strapping them, insulating, etc).
But the plaster walls we tore down ? I kid you not... had anywhere from 3-5 layers of wallpaper in every room !
And yup, damn sticky brown glue (liquid nails) holding up just about near everything in the house too.
I feel your pain, girlfriend. I feel your pain.
Ahhhh the 70's...
As a kid, our entire house was a combination of avocado green, pumpkin orange, lemon yellow, and chocolate brown. Appliances, bathroom fixtures, faux brick panels around the fireplace, faux wood panelling on the walls... and wallpaper covering every fricken surface of the house including the insides of cupboards and drawers.
And then when the 80's hit, my mom went through her red, black, and white phase. We had burnt sienna red appliances and that awful damask patterned black velvet wallpaper throughout the house.
To this day, I hate wallpaper with a passion.
Then the 90's hit and the entire world got covered in dusty rose and grey or pale peach and grey. And yes, I too fell victim to the dusty rose/grey fad with my own place.
*sigh*
Fads, gotta love em.
Our current home was built in the 20's with a lot of beautiful woodwork thoughout. Problem is, we had to strip down through about 6 or 7 layers of paint to get to it. You could tell what decade you were getting to just by the colour of the layer of paint you were hitting... and sure enough, when we hit the avocado green layer, I knew we were in the 70's !
And instead of tearing down wallpaper, we just ripped out all the plaster and lathe, and replaced it with drywall (as well as rewiring/plumbing, reinforcing the studs by strapping them, insulating, etc).
But the plaster walls we tore down ? I kid you not... had anywhere from 3-5 layers of wallpaper in every room !
And yup, damn sticky brown glue (liquid nails) holding up just about near everything in the house too.
I feel your pain, girlfriend. I feel your pain.
The 50's industrial green & dusty pinks were the WORST!
Green toilet & sink in one bathroom, pink toilet & sink in another.
Mix that with chocolate & orange appliances in the kitchen!
Peach steel cabinets. All 4 of them.
Had kelly green & turquoise NYLON shag in the living room plus paneling, with the oak flooring we discovered run longways so with the crossways joining of the dining room oak flooring we has a regulation sized bowling alley.
All windows face north, or east.
The entire house is a man-cave with no light.
I gave up a long time ago....it is what it is.
My dream is to have the property brothers come in. I imagine they would scream and run.
Green toilet & sink in one bathroom, pink toilet & sink in another.
Mix that with chocolate & orange appliances in the kitchen!
Peach steel cabinets. All 4 of them.
Had kelly green & turquoise NYLON shag in the living room plus paneling, with the oak flooring we discovered run longways so with the crossways joining of the dining room oak flooring we has a regulation sized bowling alley.
All windows face north, or east.
The entire house is a man-cave with no light.
I gave up a long time ago....it is what it is.
My dream is to have the property brothers come in. I imagine they would scream and run.
I can relate. I just finished converting the second of three bathrooms for late 1970's vileness to a more period appropriate look for our Victorian.
There is no accounting for bad taste.
I tried renovating a mobile home built in 1972.
To tell you how well that went, after about a week of trying to replace the subfloor, which was apparently some sort of custom 5ft x 12ft "plywood" that would dissolve upon contact with moisture, and was on some awful 20 inch centers or something like that where I had to replace floor joists to 16 inch centers for regular plywood... anyway, we got about halfway through the house and finally took a chainsaw, a mini-excavator, and a forklift and tore the rest of the trailer down and just rebuilt from the frame up. The walls were 2x3, the roof was supported by curved 2x2s, and nothing was going to work with normal building materials, so it needed to just be removed and replaced entirely anyway.
To tell you how well that went, after about a week of trying to replace the subfloor, which was apparently some sort of custom 5ft x 12ft "plywood" that would dissolve upon contact with moisture, and was on some awful 20 inch centers or something like that where I had to replace floor joists to 16 inch centers for regular plywood... anyway, we got about halfway through the house and finally took a chainsaw, a mini-excavator, and a forklift and tore the rest of the trailer down and just rebuilt from the frame up. The walls were 2x3, the roof was supported by curved 2x2s, and nothing was going to work with normal building materials, so it needed to just be removed and replaced entirely anyway.
a reply to: Aldakoopa
This sounds like the worst kind of expensive realty nightmare.
Thanks everyone for letting me vent, and sharing your similar stories. For everyone who feels for me, I also feel for you.
The adhesive is indeed "liquid nails". Horrendous.
We really did know what we were getting into when we bought a handymans special, but this '70's "reno" threw me for an absolute loop. I forgot to take before pictures, but I'll include some after pictures when I can. We've forgone ripping the tub out for now...because glue + one tub/shower + summer + tub is too small to just cover over with a vinyl dealy + f*^% it. So a nice new shower curtain should cover that up nicely.
Hooray for practical skills and deeply discounted building materials.
This sounds like the worst kind of expensive realty nightmare.
Thanks everyone for letting me vent, and sharing your similar stories. For everyone who feels for me, I also feel for you.
The adhesive is indeed "liquid nails". Horrendous.
We really did know what we were getting into when we bought a handymans special, but this '70's "reno" threw me for an absolute loop. I forgot to take before pictures, but I'll include some after pictures when I can. We've forgone ripping the tub out for now...because glue + one tub/shower + summer + tub is too small to just cover over with a vinyl dealy + f*^% it. So a nice new shower curtain should cover that up nicely.
Hooray for practical skills and deeply discounted building materials.
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