Sweet Innocent Angels in one Belief, Devilish Slick S.O.B's in another...

I'd just like present a comparison that I keep coming back too of Mythology and Methodology by comparing Seraphims in Judaism/or Christianity, to the Djinn in the Koran, and that it possible they might be describing the same mythical creature...That in no way in Hell could be real...No, No, No...
(Seraphim Artistic Depiction with St. Francis)
(Djinn or Genie from Aladdins Arabian Nights)
I came to the believe that they could very well be the same creatures, however, being depicted from differing POV. Now both are revered differently from the two main depictions, where as Seraphim are said to be Celestial Creatures part of the Kingdom of Heaven, while their main duty is to be Messengers of the Heavens. Their name means "Burning Ones", and are usually depicted with having a face with a Halo, and having six-wings, so imagine a face that you couldn't see because it on fire, and yet it flying with six wings that aren't so apparent, when it kind of looks like a backwards floating brain...Very weird creature eh?

Jinn, Djinn, or Genies are usually detailed as being, unseen beings, made of smokeless fire, which kind of defies the fact of when there "Smoke, there is Fire", and yet Mohammed has that Fiery Aura around his head, like Jesus having a fiery heart of Passion similar to a Hearth in House. They were created by the Islamic God for no non apparent reason other then to be Gigantic Trolls with immense power and free will, and show to have a loosely based sense of morality.
Now the Quran, doesn't really give a straight, but a loosely based depiction where they can be depicted as being Man Eating Demon like creatures, like that of an Orge, or Minotaur, to being ghostly, supernatural beings capable of granting wishes of ones most deepest desires, where the common depiction of them being Genies bound to a lamp if you will. Now IDK how it went from a giant man slayer, to a perplexing that you wish you didn't wake from it thousands of years slumber after your done with those three wishes one didn't think to hard about to begin with. Now there is one Djinn out the supposed many type of Djinn that caught my short attention span and many Final Fantasy players will recognize this name, the Ifrit.

Now not a lot of detail is given to the Ifrit(or Efreet), other then being a strong class of Djinn, that are said to infernal or fiery like creatures, with wings apparently, who apparently haunt ruins or temples. And their morality varies to the free will aspect that is given unto them, while their personality is usually belonging in the concept of being "Deadpan" in sense.

Anyways, comparing the abilities of (lets say western) Seraphim, to the Arabic, Djinn, is also similar in the bibical events that try to capture them. Seraphim are said to be messengers of the divine that would make BBM or MSN look slow and primitive, while Djinn are said to eavesdrop, listening from the lowest Heavenly plane to Earth, where they could try to steal, or maybe even deliver a message. Both are said to be capable of flight, while Arabic Jinns are said to cast Hallucinations and Visions much like how Joan of Arc is usually depicted as having a vision as well before her battle.
Djinn are also said to be responsible for demonic possession, while in one story in the bible tells of a mans Mule or Jackass is possessed and was threatened by this spirit that was said to be an angel if my memory is correct.

The main concept Im trying to portray is that they are very, very similar, in their depictions, and while yet, some how being polar opposites mythical stature, where the Western religions might heavily revere them as being divine giving messages about the future, while the Arabic views, might be demonizing them as cause and effective spawns of Satans fun and games, and really don't have that much freedom at all.

And no, I don't want to hear about any crap, or heavenly carp falling from the skies nether.

Both created by men , to be debated by men.

Both interpretations of the imaginative.

But a theology scholar once told me that the greatest trick the devil ever played was convince us that he was good.

Hence why certain mythical creatures, prophets, and saints, apostles, are portrayed certain way, despite the said region. Of origin and era of origin.

Your gins are portrayed as such because they fit a narrative with chrub and seraphim etc

originally posted by: odzeandennz
Both created by men , to be debated by men.

Both interpretations of the imaginative.

But a theology scholar once told me that the greatest trick the devil ever played was convince us that he was good.

Hence why certain mythical creatures, prophets, and saints, apostles, are portrayed certain way, despite the said region. Of origin and era of origin.

Your gins are portrayed as such because they fit a narrative with chrub and seraphim etc

It isn't true that just men created these creatures. You may want to believe that, but it is far from true. I have seen real demons before, and one of them was very powerful and could invoke evil ideas into crowds of people so that hopefully some would act out that evil intent on other people, which is what that particular demon was doing, and it is all that he does. It's his job to see people destroy their own lives and the lives of others by doing evil. Other demons reinforce those evil acts by invoking ideas that what the people are doing is good or right acts. And other demons focus on highly specific things.
As a whole their jobs are to destroy the human race using willing humans to do that work.

Nice bit of work. However they are totally different.

Jinn don't have wings yet seraphs can have up to 3 pairs of wings as displayed in your second to last picture.

The Rephaim are either another alias for Jinn or are on similar rank. If the 5 ranks of Djinn are on par with the Rephaim then they are all quite low down the hierarchy ladder.

Shaitan jinn are supposedly the strongest (fire elementals) so this puts them all under the rank of haSatan.

They are all real, especially when you have a shaitan jinn inside you since 15 months old in the form of a wraith a.k.a one of the eternally dead or Rephaim (plural).

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed
And why are they putting evil ideas in our heads, who created these demons?
If demons are to destroy the human race, and its taking them this long , considering how evil man is naturally, then those demons need to get fired. 5000 + years eh?

Which side has caused more attrocities to man in the bible, the demons or non demons?

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed
And why are they putting evil ideas in our heads, who created these demons?
If demons are to destroy the human race, and its taking them this long , considering how evil man is naturally, then those demons need to get fired. 5000 + years eh?

Which side has caused more attrocities to man in the bible, the demons or non demons?

Sounds like you never learned about these things. Why do you think they are putting evil ideas in your head? Man causes the atrocities by giving in to temptations put there by Satan and his demons. Humans get to choose that. Many humans are tempted to do evil but reject that evil and they refuse to do that. What do you think that means?
In case you haven't noticed, the world is getting very close to global destruction, so it looks like evil is winning the battle.

5000 years is nothing to them. They don't play by your time frame for such things either. They won't win in the end though, and neither will those humans who worship evil ways..

Wonderful thread Specimen and wonderful contributions from everyone above.

I feel both the "good" and "evil" Beings spoken about here need to be understood properly. I don't have the answers yet.

My studies and interactions point to some of them as created Beings that were designed to fulfil a role as interfaces between unseen powers and humanity. To bridge a gap so to speak. I understand the Greeks and Romans called them Genius Loci.

NoCorruptionAllowed's daemon inciting crowds is one example. Another is as nice over-lighting spirits for a physical city. Yet I see one as a corrupted version of the other. That both are controlled by external forces is, to me at least, the problem.

I believe some of the origin of the corruption problem lays with the middlemen in the world of the dead who are deceased priests, clergy, beauraucrats and others still holding grudges and fighting wars from their ivory towers.

Rapha's experience and study's of jinn and similar, all fit with what I have seen.

But I still don't know who created this mess. The hand of ancient man? Nephilum? Others?

I have been reading ATS people's threads on Demigods and the Nephilum, I wonder if it is so, but to say the Nephilum are solely responsible doesn't feel right.

Perhaps humanity will create more of these Beings in the near future in the name of medical science and genetics for the coming age after we send ourselves back to the stone age in war.

Well all the Abrahamic religions have taken the old Pagan gods and made devils and demons out of them. One religion borrowing an older religions myths and twisting them to fit the new religion is nothing new. Actually is the exact tactic Christianity used to gain followers in the early days and the reason why Christians celebrate Christmas and Easter on the days they do. Also the reason why the devil is depicted with horns and goat legs.

a reply to: odzeandennz

I thought the Greatest trick the Devil ever played was supposed to be he convinced the world he never existed...Or how it been said on ATS dozens of times. I might do one a thread about Cherubims in a few days or this weekend.

Although they might be mans imaginary friends or skeletons in the closet, I do like linking their comparisons.

originally posted by: Rapha
Nice bit of work. However they are totally different.

Jinn don't have wings yet seraphs can have up to 3 pairs of wings as displayed in your second to last picture.

The Rephaim are either another alias for Jinn or are on similar rank. If the 5 ranks of Djinn are on par with the Rephaim then they are all quite low down the hierarchy ladder.
Shaitan jinn are supposedly the strongest (fire elementals) so this puts them all under the rank of haSatan.
They are all real, especially when you have a shaitan jinn inside you since 15 months old in the form of a wraith a.k.a one of the eternally dead or Rephaim (plural).

Well thats what I was kind of trying to portray in the thread attempting to compare the two separate religious genre mythical creatures and trying to portray them being probably the same creature, but given different classifications or perceptive due to...Possible sightings...

Im just going with a wim here...

The reason why I'm comparing the classed Islamic Jinn named the Ifit to the Hebrew/Christian Seraphim, is due to their similar descriptions and how they are presented in art. Ifrit are said ( from what Googles telling me) to be an infernal/fiery type of Jinn, of fire, said to be an enormous winged creature of smoke, being their main description. Usually Jinn are said to be made up of smokeless fire...No smoke which is what Smokeless says to me, or scorching fire is usually a common description. A jinn share more in common with a Cletic Balrog from europe rather then a Middle Eastern figure of divinity.

As for a Seraphim description, is usually depicted as a multi winged creature, with having eyes on their wings or not, with a face being the main body or torso if you will, although their are other stories of having bodies. No I don't know the Seraphims original meaning, but there seems to be other words that are synonymous with the creature. It can mean a type of Angel, as above, where it can mean Serpents as well. There is another word, or term that can be given to them, which is an alternate form of Hell, ether describing them as dragons, or Serpents(again).

Also Seraphim are given other alias as well, or share a common description of other mystical creatures as well, where in the Second Book of Enoch, gives them more descriptions, along with the Cherubim. Being called Pheonixes, Copper Serpents, Brazen Hydras, etc... Flying Elements of the Sun, nothing new under it. Im not translator or scholar but they do share similarities.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Well, from what I gathered about pre-Islamic Jinn is that they were early pagan Gods of the Middle East, that were generally worshipped or revered as guardians or elemental forces of nature that people would pray to for luck or safety.

This was before the Islamic view decided to demonize the supposed Jinn for whatever reason, being used as superstitious scapegoats, like God punishing Christians. Maybe they saw their view coming...Also, bringing up some sci-fi speculation, but it incredibly rare for UFO to be sighted in the Middle East?

a reply to: Specimen

Also btw, I could linken them to other mythical creatures, like the Nagas, or the Devas( Sounds Devilishly Good), or probably the Asuras. Maybe it their mood when it comes to these things?

It goes all the way back through time, ancient portals, immortals, mighty men of renown, gateways.

Tower of Babylon was not to reach the heavens it was a gateway, through out the earth there are sacred sites that are gateway, portals, holy and sacred sites, for instance Jacobs ladder, angels coming and going, was a gate, a bridge.

“Surely the Lord is in this place, and I was not aware of it.” 17 He was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven.”


The Fight for Dzil Nchaa Si An, Mt. Graham: Apaches and Development in Arizona
www.culturalsurvival.org...

Mount Graham International Observatory
mgio.arizona.edu...

On March 14, 1891, exactly 125 years ago, Pope Leo XIII issued a “Motu Propio”, a personal decree, that re-established the Vatican Observatory. In it he explained the apologetic need for supporting a scientific institution at that time, and also outlined the previous history of papal support for astronomy.

www.vaticanobservatory.va...

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Well, from what I gathered about pre-Islamic Jinn is that they were early pagan Gods of the Middle East, that were generally worshipped or revered as guardians or elemental forces of nature that people would pray to for luck or safety.

This was before the Islamic view decided to demonize the supposed Jinn for whatever reason, being used as superstitious scapegoats, like God punishing Christians. Maybe they saw their view coming...Also, bringing up some sci-fi speculation, but it incredibly rare for UFO to be sighted in the Middle East?

I'm not sure about how rare the sightings are, but I have been told they are common around places where people are fighting and getting killed. Friends of mine that were in combat in Iraq and other places in the middle east have told me about UFO sightings they have had, some very close to the battle field. They said their orders are to never shoot at them or even target them at all. I personally do not believe they are any kind of spirit, but real creatures from other places. Not sure if they are good or evil, but I know they are one or the other. There is no neutral in this existence, in my opinion and experience with such things. IT certainly is all pretty interesting though.