Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Not everyone who dies and goes to Heaven are declared saints by the Catholic Church. Heaven is full of people who are unknown to the world.
However, there are thousands of people who have been canonized as saints. A canonized saint in the Catholic church is someone who has died and who the church believes is in Heaven with Jesus. This is determined through a process that the church uses to examine the life of the person as well as miracles that have happened through the intercession of the deceased person with Jesus in Heaven. The miracles are considered a sign that the person is indeed in Heaven with Jesus. One miracle and the person is declared 'blessed'. Two miracles and the person is declared 'saint'.

This is a short story about one of the saints, Saint Maximilian Kolbe, who famously gave his life in Auschwitz so another man could live.

For anyone interested -

St. Maximilian Kolbe was born Raymund Kolbe on January 8, 1894, in Zduńska Wola, Poland. Much of his life was strongly influenced by a vision he had of the Virgin Mary when he was 12. "That night I asked the Mother of God what was to become of me. Then she came to me holding two crowns, one white, the other red. She asked me if I was willing to accept either of these crowns. The white one meant that I should persevere in purity, and the red that I should become a martyr. I said that I would accept them both." He said.

One year after his vision, Kolbe and his elder brother, Francis joined the Conventual Franciscans. In 1910, Kolbe was given the religious name Maximilian, after being allowed to enter the novitiate, and in 1911, he professed his first vows. At the age of 21, Kolbe earned a doctorate in philosophy from the Pontifical Gregorian University. He would also earn a doctorate in theology by the time he was 28.

In 1918, he was ordained a priest and took on publishing. Kolbe also founded monasteries in both Japan and India. To this day, the monastery in Japan remains prominent in the Roman Catholic Church in Japan.

In 1936, Kolbe's poor health forced him to return home to Poland, and once the WWII invasion by Germany began, he became one of the only brothers to remain in the monastery. He opened up a temporary hospital to aid those in need. When his town was captured, Kolbe was sent to prison but released three months later.

Kolbe refused to sign a document that would recognize him as a German citizen with his German ancestry and continued to work in his monastery, providing shelter for refugees - including hiding 2,000 Jews from German persecution. After receiving permission to continue his religious publishing, Kolbe's monastery acted as a publishing house again and issued many anti-Nazi German publications.

On February 17, 1941, the monastery was shut down; Kolbe was arrested by the German Gestapo and taken to the Pawiak prison. Three months later, he was transferred to Auschwitz. Never abandoning his priesthood, Kolbe was the victim to severe violence and harassment. Toward the end of his second month in Auschwitz, men were chosen to face death by starvation to warn against escapes. Kolbe was not chosen but volunteered to take the place of a man with a family. After two weeks of dehydration and starvation the guards gave him a lethal injection of carbolic acid. He died August 14, 1941, in the Auschwitz concentration camp, Oświęcim, Poland.

He was beatified on 17 October 1971, in Vatican City by Pope Paul VI. The miracles that were used to confirm his beatification were the July 1948 cure of intestinal tuberculosis in Angela Testoni and in August 1950, the cure of calcification of the arteries/sclerosis of Francis Ranier; both attributed to Kolbe's intercession by their prayers of intercession through him.

Saint Maximilian Kolbe
Wikipedia

AND a reminder that the dead are indeed awake and aware of what is going on ...

Verses that speak of the dead sleeping use phenomenological language. For example, Daniel 12:2 states, “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” This image is of people getting up much as a sleeper rises in the morning. The sleep being discussed is phenomenological sleep, not literal sleep (Daniel is not talking about living people who sleep on the ground). Because dead people look like they are sleeping, especially when lying on their deathbeds (and notice that people often die on beds, enhancing the sleep analogy), the Bible often uses “sleep” as a euphemism for “death.” In fact, this euphemism is common today.

In Revelation 6:9-10, John writes, “When he [Christ] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?'”

Here John sees the disembodied souls of early Christian martyrs. The fact they are disembodied is known because they have been slain. Thus disembodied souls exist. The fact they are conscious is known because they cry out to God for vengeance. Unconscious people can’t do that. Thus conscious, disembodied souls exist.

In Revelation 20:4 John sees these souls again: “Then I saw . . . the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God and who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Here again we have disembodied souls (they had been beheaded). John sees them coming to life to reign with Christ–hence they are in a pre-resurrection state. Some scholars argue that this is a spiritual resurrection rather than a physical one. Even if that were so, it would only strengthen the case for conscious, disembodied souls because, after having been beheaded, they would be reigning with Christ in heaven in a disembodied state.

SOURCE

The Bible speaks of death as sleep because the body looks as if it’s asleep when we die, not because the soul becomes unconscious

Acts 7:59-60, Stephen, before “falling asleep” in death, cries out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” That this doesn’t support “soul sleep” is clear from Jesus’ similar remark on the cross (Lk 23:46), which didn’t preclude his telling the Good Thief who died with him, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Lk 23:43).

The Bible doesn’t teach the concept of “soul sleep.” Jesus’ parable of Lazarus and the rich man, for example, demonstrates that after death both the righteous and the unrighteous are aware of their fates (Lk 16:19-31).

The apostle Paul also teaches conscious existence after death. He speaks of his desire to depart this life and to go on to be with Christ (Phil 1:23). In 2 Corinthians 12:3-4, Paul tells of his being caught up to paradise and of his uncertainty whether this occurred “in the body or out of the body”–certainly an odd way of speaking if he didn’t believe in an immaterial soul or if he believed in “soul sleep.”

SOURCE

Other passages that allude to awake souls after death -

“Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them; his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, conversing with him. Then Peter said to Jesus in reply, ‘Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.’ ” (Matt. 17:1-5).

“As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, [the] God of Isaac, and [the] God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living. You are greatly misled” (Mark 12:26-27).

“I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance” (Luke 15:7).

“When the poor man died, he was carried away by the angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. . . and he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames” (Luke 16:19-20, 22-24)

MORE phenomenological language, explained above. Jesus described the daughter of Jairus, who had died: “Do not weep, for she is not dead, but sleeping” (Lk 8:52). Jesus then “prayed” both to the dead (by addressing a dead person) and for the dead (by commanding a dead person to return to earthly life), because He was talking to a dead child, and saying, “Child arise” (Lk 8:54). The next verse states “and her spirit returned,” thus proving that it was separate from her body. NOT 'sleeping in the grave'.

1 KINGS 17:21-22 "Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried to the Lord, “O Lord my God, let this child’s soul come into him again.” And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived." Showing the soul went elsewhere (Sheol) and wasn't 'sleeping in the grave'.

There is a judgement immediately upon death -

Luke 16:22-23 -The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; [23] and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom.

Hebrews 9:27: “it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment.”

2 Corinthians 5:8 8 - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Phil 1:23 - I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. NLT I'm torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me.

There is a final public judgement of all later at the end.

AND a reminder that the bible says we are to ask others to pray for us and we are to pray for them. What better person to ask to pray to Jesus for us than someone who is in Heaven and with Jesus. Their prayers are selfless and pure and direct to Jesus.

James 5:16 “Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working”

Ephesians 6:18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Colossians 1:9 For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives,

Matthew 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people

a reply to: FlyersFan

There is a verse that says:

10See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.

-Luke 15 Douay-Rheims Bible-

What if people have angels who know the person and can see God at the same time. That would be way cool.

a reply to: pthena
Time to edit expired.

Correction: That's Matthew 18:10.

I was thinking about other things and got careless.
Sorry.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
AND a reminder that the dead are indeed awake and aware of what is going on ...

“For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Eccl. 9:5; NW with references)

Notice how your sources don't bring up that text or respond to it, at least not in the parts you quoted. Perhaps in a different section? Similarly, speaking of death, Psalm 146:4 (NW) says: “His spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ruʹach. Some translations say “breath.”] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”

Keep in mind that the Hebrew word ruʹach and the Greek word pneuʹma, often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s active force, or holy spirit.​—Ex 35:21; Ps 104:29; Mt 12:43; Lu 11:13.

In contrast to the Hebrew and Greek words for spirit referring to that which is invisible, and in direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (soul) as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh (the Hebrew word for soul), as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

For example:

Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from neʹphesh] shall I ask back.” (Here the soul is said to have blood.)

Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.)

Lev. 24:17, 18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.” (Notice that the same Hebrew word for soul is applied to both mankind and animals.)

Rev. 16:3: “It became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul* died, yes, the things in the sea.” (Thus the Christian Greek Scriptures also show animals to be souls.) (*In Greek the word here is psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, and Dy render it “soul.” Some translators use the term “creature” or “thing.”)

“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.

“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.

As some of the previous Bible quotations already indicated, the soul is not immortal, it can die:

Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.”

Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psy·kheʹ] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.

“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.

Since I now noticed that your sources were Catholic (I skipped the following quotations before since they are slightly less profound as the ones above, still making some interesting admissions though) ... it's not like they don't know:

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.

“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [neʹphesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy·kheʹ] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.

In other words, we do not have (immaterial, invisible) souls, we are souls. And as mentioned before, the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

It may be noted that in many texts reference is made to “my soul,” “his [or her] soul,” “your soul,” and so forth. This is because neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ can mean one’s own self as a soul. The sense of the term can therefore often be expressed in English by use of personal pronouns. Thus Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros (p. 627) shows that “my neʹphesh” means “I” (Ge 27:4, 25; Isa 1:14); “your [singular] neʹphesh” means “thou” or “you” (Ge 27:19, 31; Isa 43:4; 51:23); “his neʹphesh” means “he, himself” (Nu 30:2; Isa 53:10); “her neʹphesh” means “she, herself” (Nu 30:5-12), and so forth.

The Greek term psy·kheʹ is used similarly. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 4, p. 54) says it may be used as “the equivalent of the personal pronoun, used for emphasis and effect:​—1st person, John 10:24 (‘us’); Heb. 10:38; cp. [compare] Gen. 12:13; Num. 23:10; Jud. 16:30; Ps. 120:2 (‘me’); 2nd person, 2 Cor. 12:15; Heb. 13:17,” and so forth.

Both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ are also used to mean life​—not merely as an abstract force or principle*—​but life as a creature, human or animal. (*: as the New Catholic Encyclopedia said, if you noticed that, which is why I didn't quote it at first cause that part is inaccurate)

Thus when Rachel was giving birth to Benjamin, her neʹphesh (“soul,” or life as a creature) went out from her and she died. (Ge 35:16-19) She ceased to be a living creature. Similarly, when the prophet Elijah performed a miracle regarding the dead son of the widow of Zarephath, the child’s neʹphesh (“soul,” or life as a creature) came back into him and “he came to life,” was again a living creature.​—1Ki 17:17-23.

Examples of the use of the Greek psy·kheʹ to mean “life as a creature” may be found at Matthew 6:25; 10:39; 16:25, 26; Luke 12:20; John 10:11, 15; 13:37, 38; 15:13; Acts 20:10. Since God’s servants have the hope of a resurrection in the event of death, they have the hope of living again as “souls,” or living creatures. For that reason Jesus could say that “whoever loses his soul [his life as a creature] for the sake of me and the good news will save it. Really, of what benefit is it for a man to gain the whole world and to forfeit his soul? What, really, would a man give in exchange for his soul?” (Mr 8:35-37) Similarly, he stated: “He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting life.” (Joh 12:25) These texts, and others like them, show the correct understanding of Jesus’ words at Matthew 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” While men can kill the body, they cannot kill the person for all time, inasmuch as he lives in God’s purpose (compare Lu 20:37, 38) and God can and will restore such faithful one to life as a creature by means of a resurrection. For God’s servants, the loss of their “soul,” or life as a creature, is only temporary, not permanent.​—Compare Re 12:11.

Mortal and destructible. On the other hand, Matthew 10:28 states that God “can destroy both soul [psy·khenʹ] and body in Gehenna.” This shows that psy·kheʹ does not refer to something immortal or indestructible. There is, in fact, not one case in the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek, in which the words neʹphesh or psy·kheʹ are modified by terms such as immortal, indestructible, imperishable, deathless, or the like. On the other hand, there are scores of texts in the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures that speak of the neʹphesh or psy·kheʹ (soul) as mortal and subject to death (Ge 19:19, 20; Nu 23:10; Jos 2:13, 14; Jg 5:18; 16:16, 30; 1Ki 20:31, 32; Ps 22:29; Eze 18:4, 20; Mt 2:20; 26:38; Mr 3:4; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20); as dying, being “cut off” or destroyed (Ge 17:14; Ex 12:15; Le 7:20; 23:29; Jos 10:28-39; Ps 78:50; Eze 13:19; 22:27; Ac 3:23; Re 8:9; 16:3), whether by sword (Jos 10:37; Eze 33:6) or by suffocation (Job 7:15), or being in danger of death due to drowning (Jon 2:5); and also as going down into the pit or into Sheol (Job 33:22; Ps 89:48) or being delivered therefrom (Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; Pr 23:14).

Dead soul. The expression ‘deceased or dead soul’ also appears a number of times, meaning simply “a dead person.”​—Le 19:28; 21:1, 11; 22:4; Nu 5:2; 6:6; Hag 2:13; compare Nu 19:11, 13.

a reply to: whereislogic
And yet, they ARE alive and aware. Jesus told the good thief, 'today you will be with me in paradise'. And we have the miracles that the saints interceded with and have had happen. So I'm rather confident Heaven is populated and active.

Spam removed

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: whereislogic
And yet, they ARE alive and aware. Jesus told the good thief, 'today you will be with me in paradise'. And we have the miracles that the saints interceded with and have had happen. So I'm rather confident Heaven is populated and active.

The idea that the dead are alive and aware is contrary to God's word. It is part of the spiritistic practices with which false religion is misleading the entire inhabited earth:

"By your spiritistic practices all the nations were misled. Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”"-Revelation 18:23-24.

When Jesus told the evildoer that was at his side that he would be in paradise he was not referring to an idea that Jesus and the evildoer would be in paradise the same day they died together. Notice that the Bible teaches that Jesus descended into the Grave (in KJV translated "Hell") and was resting in sleep for parts of 3 days:

"Because you will not leave me in the Grave, nor will you allow your loyal one to see corruption."-Acts 2:27. Or as the KJV states:

"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."


"But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death."-1 Corinthians 15:20.

When Jesus died he ceased to exist. He was asleep in death. He was not in paradise. In fact this is the foundation and the basis of the entire Christian hope. That Jesus died for our sins. And when he was resurrected on the third day he did not return to heaven immediately. Rather he appeared to his followers on a number of occasions. And it wasn't until 40 days later that he ascended to heaven. During all that time the evildoer was still asleep in death. For Jesus had not started the resurrection. And he is the firstfruits of the resurrection. No one came before him. And no one certainly had ascended into heaven until then.

NOTHING in scripture upholds anything you are saying. That evildoer did not partake of the first resurrection. That is only granted to the anointed Christian congregation, and the anointing to heavenly spirit life did not begin until 10 days after Jesus returned to heaven on Pentecost of 33. C. E. when he poured out the holy spirit on the 120 disciples in the upper locked room, anointing them with holy spirit as it descended on them as if tongues on fire.

In fact Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 dealing with the resurrection talking of the saints says:

"Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you remain in your sins. Then also those who have fallen asleep in death in union with Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone."-1 Corinthians 15:17-19.

His first letter to the Corinthians wasn't written until around 55 C. E. This was 22 years after Jesus ascended into heaven in 33 C. E. And he tells the saints there that those who had already died had fallen asleep in death in union with Christ.

1 Corinthians 15 was written to a group of Christians that had begun to apostatize from the truth teaching there was no resurrection. But to show that the Christian faith was based on the fact that Jesus died and then was resurrected on the third day at the beginning of that chapter he writes:

"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yes, that he was raised up on the third day according to the Scriptures; 5 and that he appeared to Ceʹphas, and then to the Twelve. After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still with us, though some have fallen asleep in death."-1 Corinthians 15:3-6.

Jesus Christ died and went to the Grave and rested in the sleep of death for parts of 3 days. On the third day he was resurrected. Some of his followers of the 500 that Jesus had appeared to had fallen asleep in death by the time Paul wrote this. He didn't say they had gone to heaven or anywhere else. In fact Paul says that they are awaiting Jesus return, when he descends with the voice of an archangel and God's trumpet to be raised back to life:

"Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."-1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.


If the saints are in the sleep of death awaiting the glorious manifestation of the Christ in heaven when he descends with the archangels voice in his Father's trumpet, there is no way that evildoer was raised before them.

And paradise is on earth. It is future. During Jesus' kingdom rule over the earth for 1,000 years the earth will be converted into a paradise. And it is in paradise wherein the evildoer and all the unrighteous will be raised back to life:

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice  and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."-John 5:28-29.

The Biblical hope for the dead is a resurrection. Something that would be unnecessary if the dead were alive. The Bible over and over and over and over and over and over refers to the dead as being asleep. Never does it teach anywhere that anyone went to heaven aside from Jesus Christ. And those who do go to heaven will do so at his return and manifestation in heaven:

"Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is."-1 John 3:1-2.

"I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom."-2 Timothy 4:1.

"From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation."-2 Timothy 4:8

"For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God."-Romans 8:19.

The paradise Jesus was talking about was the future paradise earth during his 1,000 year rule over the earth. There on that very day Jesus promised the evildoer that he would live again and be with Jesus in that paradise. The paradise is on earth. It is not heavenly.

Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”-Luke 23:42-43.

That the evildoer knew that it wasn't going to be right away he even said, "Remember me when you get into your Kingdom."

originally posted by: randomuser
The idea that the dead are alive and aware is contrary to God's word.

Nope. Already posted information showing otherwise.

When Jesus told the evildoer that was at his side that he would be in paradise he was not referring to an idea that Jesus and the evildoer would be in paradise the same day they died together.

That's EXACTLY what Jesus said.

When Jesus died he ceased to exist.

That's really bad theology you've got going there.
Jesus descended to the dead. Sheol.
Then raised on the third day.
Jesus never 'ceased to exist'. That's absurd.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: randomuser
The idea that the dead are alive and aware is contrary to God's word.

Nope. Already posted information showing otherwise.

When Jesus told the evildoer that was at his side that he would be in paradise he was not referring to an idea that Jesus and the evildoer would be in paradise the same day they died together.

That's EXACTLY what Jesus said.

When Jesus died he ceased to exist.

That's really bad theology you've got going there.
Jesus descended to the dead. Sheol.
Then raised on the third day.
Jesus never 'ceased to exist'. That's absurd.

You realize you just denied the entirety of the Christian faith. If Jesus didn't die, then it was a lie that he died for our sins. And if he didn't die then he wasn't sleeping in death. And if he wasn't asleep in death, then he wasn't resurrected back to life. All of which the Bible teaches, and all of which you continue to deny.

I respect your right to deny the scripture, and if you don't believe what it says I respect that as well. I am hoping with the tiny bit of reasoning you do have you might somehow see how ridiculous you sound, and come to your senses and start reasoning on things.

originally posted by: [post=27138336]randomuser[/post
You realize you just denied the entirety of the Christian faith.

Nope.

If Jesus didn't die, then it was a lie that he died for our sins. And if he didn't die then he wasn't sleeping in death. And if he wasn't asleep in death, then he wasn't resurrected back to life. All of which the Bible teaches, and all of which you continue to deny.

Nope. Jesus body died. His soul, like everyones souls, didn't cease to exist. He descended to the dead in sheol.

I respect your right to deny the scripture,

Nope. I never did.

see how ridiculous you sound, and come to your senses and start reasoning on things.

Yeah ... that would be right back atchya. Jesus never ceased to exist. That's your cult teaching. Jesus is God Incarnate (in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God). God, and people, don't cease to exist just because the body dies. It's YOU who 'sounds ridiculous' and it's YOU who should come out of your cult and 'come to your senses and start reasoning on things'.

“Then Elisha, filled with the two-fold portion of his (Elijah’s) spirit, wrought many marvels by his mere word. During his lifetime he feared no one, nor was any man able to intimidate his will. Nothing was beyond his power; beneath him flesh was brought back into life. In life he performed wonders, and after death marvelous deeds.” Sirach 48:12-14

“Elisha died and they buried him. Now the bands of Moabites would invade the land in the spring of that year. As they were burying a man, behold, they saw a marauding band; and they cast him into the grave of Elisha. And when the man touched the bones of Elisha he revived and stood up on his feet.” Kings 13:20-21



Much as Elisha 'performed marvelous deeds' after his death, and even raised the dead after his death, Maximilian Kolbe performed marvelous deeds after his death too. In July 1948, Angela Testoni asked Maximilian Kolbe in Heaven to obtain a cure of intestinal tuberculosis. Jesus granted that cure request when Maximilian Kolbe requested it of Him. In August 1950, Francis Ranier asked Maximilian Kolbe in Heaven to obtain a cure of calcification of the arteries/sclerosis. Jesus granted that cure request when Maximilian Kolbe requested it of Him. There have been other miracles and 'marvelous deeds' through the intercession of Maximilian Kolbe, they don't get church reco. nition because they don't go through official channels to report them. These two are the best known because they are the ones that Kolbe was officially canonized in the church with.




Revelation 8:4: "And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

Hebrews 12:1: "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses,.."

Ephesians 6:18: "With every prayer and request, pray at all times in the Spirit, and stay alert in this, with all perseverance and intercession for all the saints"

Revelation 5:8 "And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

Hebrews 12:22-24 "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel"

Revelation 6:10 "They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

Romans 8:35-39 "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Quotes by St. Maximilian Kolbe

“The most deadly poison of our times is indifference. And this happens, although the praise of God should know no limits. Let us strive, therefore, to praise Him to the greatest extent of our powers.”

“The Rosary is a weapon. There is nothing I love as much as the Rosary. I am very grateful to Our Lady for having given us this excellent means of communication with God.”

“The most perfect man is not he who does the most, but he who is most perfectly in union with God. It is the most perfect prayer that is the most powerful.”

“The greatest gift God has given us is the gift of His Divine Son. The greatest gift we can give Him in return is to accept His Son and to make Him known to others.”

“It is not by a show of force, but by love and humility that we can bring about the conversion of hearts and the victory of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”

MARVELOUS DEEDS, the intercession of Maximilian Kolbe after death (like Elisha Sirach 48:12-14)

In addition to the previously mentioned Angela Testoni cured of intestinal tuberculosis and Francis Ranier cured of calcification of the arteries/sclerosis, these have been approved by the church as miracles. (many others have not gone through the process)

The healing of a woman’s cancer: In 1981, a woman named Francesca Rubatto was diagnosed with terminal cancer and prayed to Maximilian for a cure. After praying and receiving a relic of Maximilian, Francesca’s cancer disappeared and she was declared cured by doctors. This miracle was recognized by the Church as a legitimate healing.

The healing of a man’s brain tumor: In 1983, a man named Antonio Bellomi was diagnosed with a brain tumor and given only a few months to live. He prayed to Maximilian for a cure and received a relic of the saint. Shortly thereafter, the tumor disappeared and Antonio was declared cured by doctors. This miracle was also recognized by the Church.

There have been several other miracles attributed to Maximilian’s intercession, including the healing of a young boy with a brain disorder and the conversion of a man who had rejected the Catholic faith. These miracles have helped to further spread Maximilian’s devotion and message of trust in God and devotion to Mary.

Christian Apostles

a reply to: FlyersFan

Nope. Jesus body died. His soul, like everyones souls, didn't cease to exist. He descended to the dead in sheol.

If Jesus didn't die then the entirety of the Christian faith is a farce. You are teaching that Jesus did not die. Because you do not want to accept what the Bible teaches. And you cannot find salvation by denying the truth. I accept your right and respect it, to believe as you will. But it appears to me that you think you believe in Jesus Christ. But you show you have little care for him or the truth. When shown scriptures that clearly refute your doctrines and dogmas you ignore them, say they contradict each other, and then outright deny scripture says what it does to uphold unscriptural teachings of demons, such as Jesus did not really die.

Scripture plainly tells us that Jesus fell asleep in death. That is, he ceased to exist. He descended to the grave for parts of three days, and on the third he was raised, resurrected, back to life. If Jesus was still alive then he did not die for our sins. And if he was not dead he did not need to be raised back to life.

") But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death."-1 Corinthians 15:20.

You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to go from, Jesus died, had fallen asleep in death, and was raised back to life, to what you teach, that he did not die but was still alive, and then from the life of death he was raised back to life. ??

originally posted by: randomuser
If Jesus didn't die then the entirety of the Christian faith is a farce. You are teaching that Jesus did not die.

LIAR. I clearly said Jesus died. HIS BODY DIED. His soul descended to the dead. That's death.

Jesus couldn't stop existing. He is GOD INCARNATE. (In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was GOD - John 1). He raised Himself from the dead. He couldn't do that if He stopped existing. YOU ARE WRONG.

"Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" - John 2:19

"I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No man taketh it away from me: but I lay it down of myself, and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father". - John 10:17-18

You accuse me of preaching a doctrine of demons, yet it's YOU who denies scripture.
Clean up your own cult infested house before you try to straighten out anyone elses.

Prayer to Jesus -

O Lord Jesus Christ who said, “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends” through the intercession of St. Maximilian Kolbe, whose life illustrated such love, we beseech You to grant us our petitions. (Mention here the requests you have.) AMEN.



Prayer Through St. Maximilian Kolbe -

St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe, most faithful son of St. Francis, the beggar of Assisi, inflamed with love for God you journeyed through life practicing heroic virtues and performing true apostolic deeds.

Turn your gaze on us who honor you and have recourse to you.

Radiating with the light of the Immaculate Virgin, you brought countless souls to holiness and introduced them to various apostolic endeavors for the victory of good over evil and to thereby extend the Kingdom of God throughout the whole world.

Obtain for us the light and the strength we need to do good and to bring many souls to Christ.

Perfectly conformed and united with Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, you achieved such a high degree of love of neighbor that you were able to freely offer your life in exchange for a fellow prisoner in witness of true evangelical charity.

Beg the Lord on our behalf that, filled with the same fire of love, our faith and good example might also bring others to Christ and secure for us the reward of everlasting life, where we shall praise Him together with you in eternal glory. Amen.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
AND a reminder that the dead are indeed awake and aware of what is going on ...

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: whereislogic

And yet, they ARE alive and aware.

I will try to keep it simple to hopefully highlight the contradiction in claiming that the dead are alive. Perhaps even getting you to agree that being dead means that one is not alive, as per its definition as for example given in various dictionaries, such as Merriam Webster. Their description of "the dead":

the state of being dead—usually used in the phrases rise from the dead or come back from the dead or return from the dead to mean to become alive again after dying

For a moment, I thought that my grandfather had come back from the dead.

They believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

If someone rising from the dead means that they "become alive again", then that automatically means they were not alive to begin with, i.e. when they were dead, after all, if they were alive, they wouldn't be dead and then they are not rising from "the dead". Being alive is the opposite of being dead. As Merriam-Webster's 1st definition for "dead" also brings out:

deprived of life : no longer alive

So no, per definition, the dead are "no longer alive", i.e. not alive. Believing that 'the dead are alive', as you expressed based on what you've been taught, is a contradiction (in terms).

“Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’ By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith.” (1Ti 6:20)

Not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” Remember the admissions from the New Catholic Encyclopedia about the origin of their teachings (that I quoted before)?

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy [whereislogic: Pagan Greek philosophy actually as admitted at the end.]. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.

It actually traces back further beyond Plato's ideas/philosophies, cause he got it from someone else again. But I wanted to focus on the term "philosophy" now, and the fact that these ideas/philosophies are of Pagan origin, as admitted in their own encyclopedia (I used more quotations before with other details), and transmitted through time "according to human tradition" (including traditional views/ideas). And the other related warning in the Bible about that behaviour:

“Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;” “We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Col 2:8; Hebrews 5:11-14)

By the way, just like "being alive" is the opposite of "being dead", "being awake" is the opposite of "being asleep" (or "sleeping"). In light of your statement that "the dead are ... awake" in contradiction to the Bible's description of those "sleeping in death" (1 Thes 4:13).

Similarly, and I thought that was obvious before but I guess I might as well spell it out now, 'being conscious of nothing at all' (Eccl.9:5 describing the state of the dead) is the opposite of 'being (consciously) aware', the term you used when describing "the dead".

A few other miracles from other saintly intercession -

List of 67 verified miracles that have happened through prayer at Lourdes. Intense investigation through the Catholic church. Doctors and medical experts investigate and try to debunk. 67 of them listed here. Look at the more modern ones rather than the ones in the 1800s. The more modern ones have things like blood work and xrays and better information for verification process.
67 Verified Miracles at Lourdes

Instant. Impossible yet happens. Because of prayer to God.
70th Miracle at Lourdes Healing Officially Declared

The miraculous event involved a French nun, Sister Bernadette Moriau, who went on a pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes in 2008. She had been suffering from spinal complications which had rendered her wheelchair-bound and fully disabled since 1980. She also said she had been taking morphine to control the pain.

“I felt a [surge of] well-being throughout my body, a relaxation, warmth…I returned to my room and there, a voice told me to ‘take off your braces,’” recalled the now 79-year old nun. “Surprise. I could move,” Moriau said, noting that she instantaneously walked away from her wheelchair, braces, and pain medications.

Moriau’s case was brought to the attention of the International Medical Committee of Lourdes, who extensively researched the nun’s recovery. They eventually found that Moriau’s healing could not be scientifically explained.

The Miracles That Made Pope John Paul II A Canonized Saint

The process of canonization in the Catholic Church requires two miracles. The first miracle for John Paul’s canonization was the healing of Sister Marie Pierre from Parkinson’s disease through his intercession. The second miracle healed Floribeth Mora Diaz's brain injury after an aneurysm left her terminal. FULL STORIES AT THE LINK

Mother Teresa Miracles for Sainthood

Cases of reported curative miracles are examined by the Catholic Church's Congregation for the Causes of Saints and a committee of medical specialists. If it can be shown the recovery fell outside the laws of nature with no scientific explanation, the prospective saint's intercession with God is considered to have brought about a cure.

In 1998, Monica Besra went to a Missionaries of Charity home in West Bengal, India, as she had a fever, headaches, vomiting, and swollen stomach. She had begun treatment for tuberculous meningitis the year before. However, the medications she'd taken — intermittently, depending on what her family could afford — hadn't kept a lump from growing in her abdomen (though some reports have described Besra as suffering from cancerous tumors, the growth could have been caused by tuberculosis). Surgery was deemed necessary, but Besra was too weak and unwell to undergo an operation.

On September 5, Besra was praying in the Missionaries of Charity chapel when she saw a light emanating from a photo of Mother Teresa. Later, a medallion that had touched Mother Teresa's body was placed on Besra's abdomen, and a sister said a prayer while asking Mother Teresa for help. Besra awoke early the next day to find her tumor had disappeared. Medical exams showed the abdominal mass was no longer there, and the doctors she'd seen agreed Besra no longer. ANOTHER MIRACLE CURE AT THE LINK