World's largest solar plant kills overflying birds.. Something I never considered !

MysterX
reply to post by sn0rch

 

Nah...these plants aren't PV solar panels...it's the concentrator type, focused on a target to vapourise water to run turbines.

A great idea actually, bit like the principle of a kid with a magnifying glass focussing the sunlight and burning holes in leaves and stuff...only without the magnifying glass...uses mirrors instead.

Oh right, I obviously didn't read the article, just made the .. assumption.

fair point.

I really wish people would do a little reading/research and realize just how much toxic waste that "Green" technology actually produces during the production of said tech. You have to build it after all before you can use it. It is not the cure or the end all, be all of energy production.

727Sky

The newly opened Ivanpah solar planet is joint-owned by NRG Energy, BrightSource Energy and Google. The plant is located on federal land along the border between California and Nevada.

However, according to compliance documents released by developer BrightSource Energy last year, dozens of birds were found injured at the site during the building stage.

Although solar energy is cleaner than fossil fuels, environmentalists have been protesting the new solar plant because it has been killing migrating birds.

In another article I read a couple of days ago it said the temps the birds try to fly through can approach 1000 Fahrenheit.. Instant crispy critter !
intellihub.com...

edit on 2/20/2014 by kosmicjack because: title

I really can't help but laugh at this. Sort of reminds me of all the mercury vapor bulbs we now have polluting the Earth because of liberal thinking

reply to post by TDawgRex


I agree that "green" tech produces a lot of contamination. No expert but took a few classes, just enough to be ignorant. I believe the batteries in the Prius use arsenic, and the mines that produce it toxify the surrounding communities.
Ethanol is touted as clean energy but only because the toxins have been burned off and dumped into the soil and atmosphere at the refining plant. Not to mention the amount of diesel fuel required to produce the corn used to create the ethanol results in a loss of Btu's.

But on the other hand, I think we need to keep experimenting with these technologies in order to find the right balance.

We could all dig a cave but the resulting dirt would interupt the spawning grounds of the salmon lol

reply to post by 727Sky


Everything we do has an impact. [sigh] Guess we just have to evaluate all the risks and benefits. Oh wait, "they" already do that. It's just the criteria that remain a mystery.


F&S

Not the article I was looking for but this has a bit more on the subject... A quick search brings up several pages about the Plant.. From what I gather the big solar projects like this one are already dying on the vine due to less grant money and the tech has improved since this one has been built. 1.6 billion federal grant and then sell the electricity.. If they offered that to me I would post signs around the perimeter that said "birds beware" or something (sarcasm) That is allot of money IMO.

Last week, the largest solar energy plant in the world opened in California's Mojave Desert and things are already taking a not-so-unexpected turn for the worse.

The $2.2 billion Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System is made up of three massive generators, and covers about 5 square miles of land close to the California-Nevada border. Ivanpah is on federal land, but is owned by private companies, including NRG Energy, BrightSource Energy and Google. Brightsource earned a coveted $1.6 billion federal grant to invest in the project. The plant is designed to power 140,000 homes with nearly 400 megawatts of energy — a possible game changer in the clean energy sphere. Though the plant did not formally open until last week, it began producing energy last year.

According to a monthly compliance report on the project by the California Energy Commission, nearly one dozen birds were found dead or injured, many with singed wings, while the site was being tested in November. Long-term effects are unknown, but this number of fatalities was apparently higher than expected, per the WSJ. Then again, 11 birds month might be an acceptable cost for all that renewable power.

news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=A0LEVznhGAZTLgoAtU5XNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'B0ZGk2Z2FqBHNlYwNzYw Rjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDA3N18x
www.thewire.com...
online.wsj.com...

reply to post by TDawgRex

"That green tech" is not the one being discussed in the OP.

Still a quick look online and I found that a solar panel would have to generate electricity for up to 3 months to make up for the energy used to handle the waste emmisions created during its fabrication. Wow, 3 whole months.

reply to post by sn0rch


What i am saying is that the heat and light from the sun hitting the earth is part of the earths finely balanced eco system. At the moment there are very few solar panels being used so the effect is not even measurable but if we were to suddenly get all of our electricity from solar then the amount of light and heat hitting the ground could be reduced so much that it upsets the eco system in some way.

Think it of joules that the earth absorbs every day. Bacteria , plants and animals use this energy in various ways an intern become part of a food chain. I theorize that even a 1% reduction of absorbed energy by the planet might have a knock on effect.

This is a big problem with most types of 'renewable energy' for example bio fuels. Its great that we can grow things like corn to turn into bio fuel but growing it strips the soil of nutrients which have to be replaced by fertilizer (usually made from fossil fuels like oil). If we relied solely on biofuel from corn it just wouldn't be sustainable. When we divert energy from our eco system in mass there is a price to pay.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Ahhh the Butterfly effect..

727Sky
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

Ahhh the Butterfly effect..

That's a great analogy yes.

I like the idea of using solar to vaporize water. I'm sure this is the method used due to the cost of solar panels vs mirrors. Maybe a new method to consider would be actual solar panels with thermal electric technology embedded in them somehow. You get both sunlight for power and heat to generate electricity. The technology probably needs some improvements but it would eliminate bird vaporizing.

Just think how much Big Oil has ruined our ecosystem. I would assume its the birds that decide to land and rest on the actual solar concentrators focal point, that would be burned. This would not effect any birds that just fly right in front of the mirrors. So if they just put certain noises or frequencies to deter the birds from resting on the focal point of the concentrator, it would help.

There are drawbacks from every way that we make energy. I don't think that this will be a major problem, they have ways to deter birds from entering the area. It won't keep all birds away but it will keep a big percentage of them away.

We need some of those bird repellent frequency thingamagigs set up to keep politicians away during their campaign times.

thisguyrighthere
I hope the plant owners/operators have enough migratory bird stamps to cover the killings.

Funny how true the old saying "kill one man it's murder, kill a million it's a statistic" is.

Kill one migratory bird without proper permits and stamp and you're losing your license and facing a fine and/or jail time.

Kill a few hundred or more and it's just a statistic.

Criminal equivalent of too big to fail I suppose.

Spy on your neighbor and you're getting charged with a half dozen crimes. Spy on the world and you're lauded as an all-loving compassionate man who cares for the safety of others.

^^^^ This ^^^^
Sounds accurate.

reply to post by 727Sky


Many years ago I was offered a job in engineering at Dagget which was a similar operation years ago, I was told then the birds would literally vaporize if they flew close to the tower where maximum sunlight was concentrated. Also I can say that having put on many a mile motorcycle riding in that whole area out there, there was little bird population to speak of, because there just isn't much to eat. But what can I say, environmentalist forced a turtle reserve over 10K acres and seriously for hundreds of miles of riding never even saw one.