North Korea’s Kim Jong-un forced mothers to drown newborn babies: U.N. report

reply to post by alienreality


You should probably hang out with Sen McCain and probably talk how great the interventions have helped the world recently.

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by alienreality

 

You should probably hang out with Sen McCain and probably talk how great the interventions have helped the world recently.

Or not...

Maybe you don't mind allowing filth like Kim Un to remain alive to torture women and babies at his leisure.. I do mind. I don't need an idiot like McCain to help support that stance either.. The whole world should be supporting that stance.

"Death to Kim Un the filth of all humanity" (me) I'm coming to kill you Kim, you better hide behind a big loaf of bread.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Take away peoples constitutional rights in America, and nobody bats an eye

Kim Jong-un forced mothers to drown newborn babies according to sh**y media, everyone loses their mind!

is this like the incubator babies on the floor in Quaite event that never happened?
jurisprudence.....prudence being the word

Xeven
reply to post by kwakakev

 

So you think international sanctions make it ok to kill babies and commit mass murder and starve the population of North Korea by it's leader? Really? Did you really go there?

Are you really up to speed on the effects that international sanctions have? Really? Any ideas just how many people do suffer under these terms and not just in North Korea. While those in power do have some reduced capability it is really those that are most vulnerable that pay the highest toll.

So do you think it is not good enough that we ostracize a nation, you want to punish it again because they are having difficulty in meeting their social supply and demand. Are you really going there? Are you one of those people that think it is a crime being poor?

I have no idea how you expect North Korea to maintain an international standard when it is denied international resources.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by kwakakev

 

What blame should the international community be taking exactly?

First there is a long entrenched culture of war that created this situation, along with many other generational rivalries throughout history. In this situation there is a strong East vs West theme over riding and complicating many of the more local issues.

In a more practical sense there is a lot of feet dragging and general animosity towards placing more incentive and motivation towards reunification efforts. Look at just how much hate there is in this thread directed at Kim rather than the situation. Kim maybe the leader but he has many implementation issues just like Obama and many other leaders. His age does present some problems, but also has some opportunities as his mind is not as old and fixed like his father.

From what i have learnt about the DPRK and it's direction is that it is moving towards more democratic principles. I would call this a win for the west with why it went there in the first place. I know the nuke issue is a big sticking point with reunification discussions, but blame George Bush and his axis of evil speech for this one. Considering the number of calls for invasion on this thread it has been a prudent step by North Korea to develop them.

With just how much tension and emotion the Korea divide does create there are many, many excuses to stall discussions and not sign a peace treaty. As for any good reasons to not find peace I have not found any.

This countries atrocities have been happening for decades. There have been plenty of reports - generations of families tortured through starvation, abuse, and murder, (including babies). So why now? There must be an economic reason to show concern suddenly. I mean its better late than never but to me it seems there is more behind the motivation to threaten than human rights violations. Sad that couldn't be enough. If it were - something would have been done by this point (within the last 30-40 years).

reply to post by kwakakev

First there is a long entrenched culture of war that created this situation, along with many other generational rivalries throughout history.

Indeed..there has. The North Korean Regime is one of the most overtly militaristic societies left in the world today. The Military means a lot in some Western nations, but it defines life and death, as it were, in the DPRK. That's been the case since the 50's.

In this situation there is a strong East vs West theme over riding and complicating many of the more local issues.

There is a regime and family history of leadership that is based in something close to criminal insanity. Period.

In a more practical sense there is a lot of feet dragging and general animosity towards placing more incentive and motivation towards reunification efforts.

South Korea and the UN have been working to supply and feed North Korea based on ongoing agreements and treaties between the two nations and larger world since the first non-nuclear agreements the Kim signed and lied about in the early 90s....and kept playing games to leverage food and fuel aid almost like an annual sport, almost every year since. Yeah, there is feet dragging going on. The Kims..then or now..cannot handle Good Faith negotiating. After over 20 years....the WHOLE PROCESS was proven to be based on nothing but North Korean lies. How do you work with that??

His age does present some problems, but also has some opportunities as his mind is not as old and fixed like his father.

Some problems??? That's how you'd classify a homicidal maniac? Yeah.... Jeffrey Dahmer had a few issues too, especially around dinner time. I'm sure he was a hell of a fella outside meals though.

From what i have learnt about the DPRK and it's direction is that it is moving towards more democratic principles.

Oh, I'd be very interested in specific and supported examples you can cite. I have spent more time than I ever should without being paid for it, researching and doing some writing about the internal power issues of North Korea as well as the history of the Kim legacy or...dynasty as it's almost coming to be.

Recall something, before praising this sick man too much. The North Koreans are taught that their national leader IS DIVINE. Not inspired by God, but a direct and literally relation TO God himself, ruling by Divine mandate and with direct Divine guidance.

It's a sick place with an extremely sick man leading a nation of people who haven't known anything remotely like freedom in SO long now, it's been lost as a generational matter now. A truly tragic thing to have watched happen for what percentage I've been around to see.

How anyone could see positive or praise those sick monsters is beyond me though. I disliked Dear Leaders before I spent the time to learn why they've earned that. Now I can honestly say there is hate there...and that is an emotion I ration like water in a desert. The DPRK earns an exception though. A big one.

* Is you have a few minutes sometime...these people made a 3 part series and much, if not most is filmed inside the DPRK to see what very few living in the world today have seen...and been free to ever leave to discuss. There is literally NO PLACE left on Earth like North Korea. It stands in a category all its own and in a way no other nation does.

reply to post by mekhanics


I guess you noticed how the propaganda machine in America is working like charm, more and more rights are taken in this nation by executive order than in any other time in history but people are debating what happens in third world countries.

it is working like charm, indeed.

Still the fact that NK engage in this ancient practice in this modern days is something to be concern also.

marg6043
...
But in countries that populations are a problem do to poverty or other reasons, this practice is still actually practical for them in their views but an abomination for us.

Remember the government encourage the practice but the families and specially the mothers have to be willing participants.

Now if the babies were taken from the families and killed by the government this is actually considered a human rights violation and should be taken by the international community very seriously.

I am sorry Marg but you are wrong. The mothers have no choice either way Marg, same in China. Human Rights groups have documented cases, those they could document, in which the baby girls in China were taken without the consent of the mother/parents and murdered. The same thing happens in North Korea. Read the OP article itself Marg.

Here is another.

A prisoner is forced to haul emaciated corpses up a mountain ready for burning so their ash can be used as fertiliser but sees that the flesh on their faces has been gnawed away by rats. Horrified inmates watch as a guard angered by the crying of a baby forces its mother to drown it face down in a bucket of water.
...
These are just two in a litany of alleged "unspeakable atrocities" described in a nearly 400-page report released by an independent UN panel of inquiry into the North Korean regime and its decades-long subjugation of its citizens through incarceration, enforced starvation, torture, rape, enslavement and sexual abuse. "Hundreds of thousands" of detainees have lost their lives over 50 years, it claims.

"We saw so many people die we became so used to it. We became so used to it that we didn'tfeel anything," one survivor of the camps told the investigator, who used the report's release to call for those responsible for the atrocities inside the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) and possibly the country's leader himself, Kim Jong-un, to be referred to the International Criminal Court for prosecution.

Link

Forcing a mother to drown her own baby is not a choice, and that it's not the only case. There are many more.

marg6043
I guess you noticed how the propaganda machine in America is working like charm, more and more rights are taken in this nation by executive order than in any other time in history but people are debating what happens in third world countries.

it is working like charm, indeed.

Still the fact that NK engage in this ancient practice in this modern days is something to be concern also.

That's because many, many people in the United States of America don't want to believe that this is happening. they believe in the promises of "change" thinking that "change" can only be good, more so when the "change" has been forced on us by progressives. After all, that is the new meaning of "progress".

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Then if the mothers have not choice in the matter it is a concern indeed and a human rights violation I have not problem with having the UN putting some pressure on that country.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I have never meet either of the Kim's and do not know them as an individual. The NK media paints their leader full of praise while western sources demonize the persona. As for what the truth is probably just like everyone else, some good points, some bad points.

As for the DPRK's moves towards democracy, a top down voting process was used for the last party shuffle. The managers and those informed about who would be working underneath them got to vote on who got what positions. In terms of establishing the procedures and infrastructure of democracy it is a start. How the DPRK party is also structured does look to be preparing to engage South Korea in a parliamentary arena. There are still a few vacant positions on the North and South side to allow the DPRK as one electable party in a national Korea vote, but this is the direction I see things moving towards with the reunification work done so far.

How Kim and the Dynasty fits into a parliamentary system does still leave some questions open at this time. Korea is not the only country to struggle with blended forms of governance and authority with other monarchies and dynasties common. When looking at the history it is very clear to see that it is a sick and troubled place. If I was born into the position that Kim is now I have no idea how I would feel or what I would do.

One thing I do know is that while the hate remains, so will the wall.

reply to post by kwakakev


I will agree that what Kim has become probably has more to do with his upbringing and schooling than any natural tendency if he'd been born to other parents, anywhere else.

I doubt we'll have to worry about how Kim works out or what he does Post-DPRK. I'll be utterly amazed and in shock if he comes out, however that all ends, alive...let alone with any form of power remaining. He'd be a near unique example in recent or even long term history, for that matter. Dictators, as a literal and textbook definition of his form of rule, simply don't generally end life in quiet retirement or sucking down drinks with umbrellas on a South Pacific beach.

I don't have personal knowledge of the place myself. I've heard one North Korean speak at a local University and I've certainly watched the Vice and other guerrilla filming done to create documentaries inside the DPRK. One of my courses last year spent an inordinate amount of time on it, as well.

It reminds me of East Berlin in videos (current at the time) I saw as a kid....except East Berlin had more people outside on bright sunny days. North Korea consistently looks like a nation of 20+ million people on paper, with maybe half that really living there.

Honestly, and I'm sure it merely SEEMS that way, but look at Google Earth or Terra Server or any of the public satellite runs over that country from any year you care to look back and find footage. It's Potemkin Village in terms of visible people actually doing something. Weird...and just one of many things that nation is or is near unique with.

To me, no matter how bad the little Kim is at least he does it to his own nation not 12000 km away from their borders and continent by any orders.

The author of the topic as usual biased toward specific nations following the propaganda machines anyway without even mentioning that there are 20+ million homeless (and their numbers escalating day by day) wandering in U.S. streets living like ghosts… but... but the little Kim is a naughty boy and everyone should feel sorry for the N.K people.

I am asking one damn thing…DO YOU THINK PEOPLE OF THE N.K ARE IMBECILE AND CAN NOT FIX THEIR OWN PROBLEMS WITHOUT THE GREEDY WESTERNERS INTERVENTIONS..?

Is that the same report from an evil organization issued food/medicine for oil on Iraqis nation caused death of tens of thousands of infants and kids back in 90’s..? Where the hell was this human rights organization when the US and her allies bombed the crap out of Afghanis and Iraqis..?

Give me a break….

This doesn't surprise me. NK has conditioned it's population (both in & outside of the camps) to do some pretty depraved things & consider them acceptable. On one hand, I can't fault the everyday people for generations of conditioning, but on the other hand, the back of my mind is screaming "Don't these people have a conscience!? No moral compass at all?!" Not just with killing babies, but all of the abuses inflicted on all ages. It's brainwashing that Hitler would probably be jealous of. I know I've said time and time again that we need to stay the hell out of other peoples' business (the US, I mean) but there are some extremes that to be completely honest, need intervention over. As non-interventionist as I am, NK's abuses are one of those in need of halting. If we sit idly by and turn a blind eye because we think we're taking the moral high ground, we need to re-examine our god damned morals. How many times in our history do we ignore gross abuses by horrific governments before we finally have enough of it?

xavi1000
For anyone who have still doubt about North Korea i'm presenting free

Camp 14 - Total Control Zone

I've read practically everything there is to read online about NK & the camps, but I've avoided the documentaries with interviews, until now. I'm watching this one you posted, and find it's every bit as difficult to watch as I assumed it would be and I'm only 50 minutes in. The former prisoner seems, understandably, deeply, deeply scarred & utterly broken. The former guards seem to be caught between the NK "Ha, it was normal!" mentality, and the "...What have we done?..." mentality.