Mayhem Grips Ukrainian Capital

When it comes to staging riots and attacking law enforcement to create chaos in order to overthrow a foreign government that was elected by popular vote, no one is better than the US government... If one scratches the surface and examines the situation beyond the images from the one part of Kiev that are being broadcast to the world a troubling truth emerges that makes me disgusted to be an American.

The EU and America didn't get their way and Ukraine's government made a sovereign decision because it offered Ukraine the best possible outcomes; while the EU and US continue to babble about the immediate economic benefits in reduced trade tariffs, which seem impressive but fail to take into account the cost of lost trade with Russia and CIS countries or transition expenses:

- The agreement eliminates about 95 percent of customs duties. Non-tariff barriers will go down by 35 percent compared to 2004. The Free Trade Agreement, as outlined by the European Commission, will save Ukrainian exporters about €487million annually.

- Currently Ukraine exports $17 billion in export goods to Europe and $16 billion to Russia. By signing with the EU, they may have to forfeit their entire Russian export sector, which Russia estimates will immediately cost Ukraine 35 billion euros.

- The auto industry won’t be immediately affected, but Ukraine will be given a "safeguard" on EU car imports. Ukraine imports 41,000 cars per year from the EU, about 13 percent of the market.

- The IMF recommended Ukraine raise gas tariffs for domestic consumers. Ukraine already pays $400 per 1000 cubic meters of gas, and a hike in prices would be domestically unpopular.

- In order to be up to trade standards, Ukraine would have to adopt 350 laws and the EU would need to draft over 200,000 pieces of legislation, a process both timely and costly.

- Ukraine would need to changes its competition laws, which would break certain cartels and monopolies, which may upset some of Ukraine’s more powerful oligarchs and force them to ‘clean’ their money.

- Everything down to minute details– like the type of screws used on road signs to the width of gauges on railway tracks, would have to be switched.

* Here is the full trade agreement with the EU that Ukraine rejected.

More troubling is who the US is supporting in this so called spontaneous protests; most American & EU-member media have completely ignored this most troubling aspect of the protests but Canada's Globe and Mail reveal the reality in an article titled: "Have Ukraine's protests been taken over by this ultra-right-wing group?"

But the physical organization of these protests, the building of barricades around squares, much of the camp construction and policing, and the pitched and sometimes deadly battles with police are almost entirely the work of the extreme right. In some of Ukraine’s smaller cities, the local protests and seizures of government buildings appear to have been entirely the work of Pravy Sektor.

Their highly visible presence has led Mr. Yanukovych to dismiss the protests as the product of “extremism, radicalism and incitement to hatred.” While the accusation is largely inaccurate, some protest supporters worry that the very visible and largely uncontrollable far right is giving the pro-European movement a bad name.

Here in Kiev, some members of the ragtag army of pipe-wielding, helmeted marshals and guards say they are supporters of the more mainstream right-wing Ukrainian-nationalist Svoboda (Freedom) party, which won about 10 per cent of the vote in 2012 parliamentary elections and whose leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, has a history of using anti-Semitic insults.

But the people in the largest and most aggressive group, who generally refuse to speak to journalists, are members of Pravy Sektor, an umbrella group of fascist, nationalist, football-hooligan and right-wing extremist gangs – some with neo-Nazi histories – which is generally considered to the right of Svoboda and which tends to be very secretive. It has not, to this point, been a political party.

A senior Pravy Sektor official, in a rare interview, told The Globe and Mail that the admiration his group has won from protesters for its heroic battles with police has led it to consider entering the electoral arena.

“When this revolution is finished, then we will be willing to think about it – if we were able to do so much for the country, then why not? People are disillusioned with the official opposition, and we should be listened to,” says Artem Skoropadsky , a slight, mild-looking 32-year-old activist who agreed to an interview, after lengthy negotiations with the people on the fifth floor, over beers at a cellar restaurant.

Pravy Sektor’s commander and figurehead is Dmitro Yarosh, a bald-headed, burly militant who rarely speaks. Mr. Skoropadsky describes himself as the group’s spokesman, but his language suggests that he has a leadership role. And he chooses to speak in Russian, indicating that he is from eastern Ukraine – which suggests that the group differs from the Ukrainian-nationalist focus of Svoboda, whose membership has sometimes been restricted to ethnic Ukrainians.

While he says Pravy Sektor is right-wing, Christian and intolerant of any foreign influence in Ukraine, he insists that they are not neo-Nazis or fascists and that they condemn outright racism. But keeping extremists out of a self-professed extremist group is, he admits, not always easy. Some Pravy Sektor members have been spotted wearing neo-Nazi symbols.

“Of course, it is difficult to control everyone,” he says. “I know one guy who’s got ‘14/88’ [a symbol referring to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf] painted on his shield. But we’re trying to purge them. We are a highly disciplined organization.”

Despite their history of extreme intolerance, Pravy Sektor has won the admiration of a surprising number of mainstream protest organizers.

Yay America: Backing Nazi's in the Ukraine and Al Qaeda in Syria and killing innocent civilians with robot drones throughout the world.

WTF have we become?!?!?!

here some live cameras from Kiev, looks like any other city... people going home from work after 6pm

what's the big deal

videoprobki.ua...

and here the map with some more cameras around the city

videoprobki.ua...#

seems those other people in Kiev doesn't bother at all... so who wants the "change" again ?

can't await to see what will happen, if some few thousand people demonstrate for another democratic elections in London, Paris or Berlin, burning policeman and governmental buildings and property.

reply to post by KrzYma


I can tell you one thing ...

This would not happen in the US, First the electricity would be cut, the only ones speaking would be the police, then any resistance would be met with deadly force, military style and the police would be home in time for dinner ... would be none of this overnight burning tires and buildings business. These people would be labeled terrorists, executed with deadly force and the general public would do nothing but watch about it on TV and complain about it on the internet IF they actually disagreed, most would buy the spin the MSM feeds us that it was the victims fault and although it was a shame, they had to be killed to maintain order.

Just as we warned earlier, the stealing of the weapons cache and labeling of the break-away region as having undertaken "terrorist acts" has led to the military getting involved:


*UKRAINE ARMY GIVEN POWER TO CHECK CIVILIAN VEHICLES
*UKRAINE ARMY GIVEN POWER TO USE WEAPONS ON UKRAINIANS: MINISTRY

Under the "anti-terrorist" operation, Ukraine is a close to civil war as it has been so far. As Martin Armstrong concludes: "there is no peaceful resolution" no matter how many sanctions and condemnations the West makes.
www.zerohedge.com...

reply to post by MessageforAll


I am honestly surprised the Army has not intervened earlier but I am looking at this through the eyes of an American and I am dumbfounded that police were killed and all these people are still standing, there is a band rocking out on stage with electricity feet away from people throwing stuff at the police ... it is surreal.

Just the simple fact alone that police died in these clashes tells me that everyone in that square would be killed if this was in the US. I am actually shocked the police are just standing there watching this dude sing, dodging rocks, fireworks and cocktails.

This should actually shock all Americans, here you can watch a Government that actually fears its people, something our forefathers believed in and we have lost along the way.

As a citizen of former Soviet block country, now EU member, I would highly encourage Ukrainian citizens not to join EU or sign trade treaty in proposed form. Because:
1. Power of oligarchs will not diminish, it will only slightly transform + there will come others.
2. Your industrial base will be killed.
3. Small business will be destroyed by multinational corporations.
4. You will lost chance to ban or support specific technologies (GMO, food additives, pharmaceuticals, ...).
5. Already bad unemployment will go through rooftop.
...
10. Russia can not and will not tolerate it. I know, many of you hate Russia for very good reasons. But this is simply fact.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Let's not forget that George Soros may be the financier of this one. It appears that to attempt to "stay clean" the USA might be trying to use wealthy financiers rather than direct funds through the CIA.

Maybe Soros is just a fall guy, a strange fall guy to say the least. But at this point anything is possible and the bigger deal is that Ukraine is shaping up just like many of the N. Africa/M.E. countries.

Its a little more than 13. Though you really have to question all of this. FIRE. 13. Valentines Day/Week. Hey what gives!

Valentine and Bal, and death by fire....

PERIOD.

So as usual, something other than the real people seem to be benefiting from this.

Currently the death count is at 25 and by the most recent reports, today there are twice as many rebels as yesterday. The media here is keeping attention closely on the happenings there.

Video Stream:



I have seen many people in ATS trying to find motives behind these riots and of course, there probably are also some powerful people with ulterior, especially financial motives, although the fact is, whatever people might think, from Ukranian perspective is EU is far more attractive than Russia, especially when it comes to freedom and development of the nation. The current system is very corrupt and the opportunities in the western hemisphere are superior to the current situation.

beezzer
So we help other countries anti-government protesters.

But in our own country, we . . . . . . . . .

Well... we're motivated by money. The US is (believe it or not) more liberated than Ukraine so maybe we need more liberated nations (like the Scandinavian ones) to pay us to protest.

I'm pretty sure if we don't do it ourselves, another nation will come in and do it for us like we do for others. This should all be read in a derisive tone, by the way; I'm not exactly happy with it.

reply to post by Cabin

The current system is very corrupt and the opportunities in the western hemisphere are superior to the current situation.

I understand the motives but they are an illusion. Just ask any common Greek, Spaniard or Portuguese

Ukraine President Yanukovych sacks army chief amid crisis

BBC link

''Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has sacked the head of the armed forces, Col Gen Volodymyr Zamana, according to the president's website.

The move comes after the most intense violence in Ukraine's three-month crisis turned Kiev into a battle zone.Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has sacked the head of the armed forces, Col Gen Volodymyr Zamana, according to the president's website.

The move comes after the most intense violence in Ukraine's three-month crisis turned Kiev into a battle zone.''

reply to post by KrzYma


Any common Greek, Spaniard or Portuguese would say they would prefer EU to Russia. The best solution is staying independent, although when there is a choice between EU and Russia, that would be the preferrence.

Unity_99
Its a little more than 13. Though you really have to question all of this. FIRE. 13. Valentines Day/Week. Hey what gives!

Valentine and Bal, and death by fire....

PERIOD.

So as usual, something other than the real people seem to be benefiting from this.

What is benefiting? Are you bringing in supernatural forces into this discussion?

I think a little more elaboration is in order..... please.

US President Barack Obama has threatened the Ukrainian government with “consequences” if the violence continues and the Ukrainian military steps into the conflict, Reuters reports.

Obama condemned the violence in Kiev in the strongest possible terms, saying he believes a peaceful resolution is still possible.

LMAO

Found this video. At least based on what my acquaintances in Ukraine have told me, that is what majority of protesters believe in. I do not know whether it has been already shared or not.

reply to post by ArchAngel_X


This whole "Power to the People" thing has to stop. From Syria to Thailand to Ukraine and everywhere in between, the "people" who are causing the violence, are essentially paid perpetrators to one extent or another - none are just your average Joe from the street. These are clearly organized and well orchestrated events with members of long standing, well funded political factions.

As many people have been pointing out here on ATS, but not enough, the protesters are easily not what you want them to be. What makes you think they have good intentions? Because the news says so and that all gov't is bad? Should all democratically elected governments roll over when a few people get pissed??? Are you a Nazi sympathizer? Because these "protesters" which you choose to support by saying "power to the people" (unknowingly I am sure), essentially are supporters of Nazism or at the very least national socialism - yet are trying to support the loss of their sovereignty to the EU, which is essentially controlled by the banking cartels (again one more thing the protesters are 'in theory' against - they call it banking 'jewery' - not my word, theirs)....it's mind boggling to myself, I don't expect many to understand the double standard there - I am sure many Ukrainians don't even see this. And when this ideology is tied to religion (which these ones are) it is quite a dangerous mix. I think Greece has even had their fair share of this absurdity/ instability, but I have a feeling they have kept it under control...for the time being.

Indeed the situation is complex and fueled with irrational emotions. All in all us side-liners must NOT take sides - but do our best to analyze the evidence as it is presented. it's almost a duty as a human being to do this. if your not being shot at, but you have eyes on shooters...start doing some detective work..don't just put on the lemming clothes and fall in line!

Say what you will, for the time being it is a free internet where free speech reigns (and I'm happy for that), but spewing 60's lingo crap about this event and the 'people' is absolutely irresponsible and shows a total lack of education on the subject. Please do us all a favor and read more about this VERY complex situation before you choose to put your 2 cents in. Or just continue to do as you wish and wait for me to respond.

I am exceptionally new to ATS and honestly am somewhat floored at the amount of thoughtless comments on here (then again it is the internet). Indeed there are highly intelligent debates and information/ opinions but sometimes the threads are just full of what seems to be paid shills or at the very least armchair quarterbacks. Take responsibility for what you think and do...culture is nothing but an illusion. Do not fall victim to it.

MessageforAll
US President Barack Obama has threatened the Ukrainian government with “consequences” if the violence continues and the Ukrainian military steps into the conflict, Reuters reports.

Obama condemned the violence in Kiev in the strongest possible terms, saying he believes a peaceful resolution is still possible.

LMAO

If the same type of event occurred here in our nation's capitol, Washington, DC, there would already be tanks in the streets, arrests made and citizens held as prisoners for an unlimited time-frame without trial thanks to the NDAA and the body count would be well over 25 Americans killed by law enforcement and military; if a foreign government tried to aide the protesters, that nation(s) would face retaliation via the full force of the US military.

I wish that what I wrote above was an exaggeration; hell, 10 years ago I would have thought so but in 2014 it's the harsh reality we enjoy having lived under the rule of war criminals since 2001.

Cabin
Found this video. At least based on what my acquaintances in Ukraine have told me, that is what majority of protesters believe in. I do not know whether it has been already shared or not.

I loved the first draft of that fine product of US State Department propaganda... don't know if you've seen it but here it is:

Sparkymedic
reply to post by ArchAngel_X

 

Say what you will, for the time being it is a free internet where free speech reigns (and I'm happy for that), but spewing 60's lingo crap about this event and the 'people' is absolutely irresponsible and shows a total lack of education on the subject. Please do us all a favor and read more about this VERY complex situation before you choose to put your 2 cents in. Or just continue to do as you wish and wait for me to respond.

WoW! You wrote down what I couldn't with my limited English vocabulary! This is exactly my point most people fail to grasp.
I'm referring to your whole statement, but I wouldn't want this to get a sticker of using a to large quote.

Star and applause.