MKUltra.. Survival.. New Operations.. Questions!

Not to mention my MOM (I suspect my father would have done the brainwashing and manipulations thru abuse) was the one most worried about me getting my juvenile records. Not that they said much, but I was able to get court transcripts in regards to my foster care. There have been other things that have happened to me that just "disappeared" I remember going to court sitting in a room with attorneys and judges and theres no record of it. Maybe they weren't even attorneys and judges? I dunno. That's the feeling I got though. And why were my sister and brother never taken out of my parents home? I FAUGHT FOR THAT FOR MY SURVIVAL! I wasn't always against violence. I was a violent person. Between my near death experience and losing my house to a fire, that is what transformed me to what I am today.

The only pre-recorded response I can think of is this. From my writing Life's Purpose on my page:

For instance, when a doctor asks, "Has anything traumatic ever happened to you?" Impulsively I always respond with a "No" trying to pretend like they never happened. That maybe I can pretend to have had a normal life, but ultimately I need to be truthful so I "fess up." I am always met with the same responses, "My God!" or "You are really lucky to be here!" or "I can't believe that happened to you?" I smile and answer with the same pre-recorded response, "Yes. I am very lucky. Not only am I here but I can walk. I shouldn't have walked away much less lived." Deep down I wonder though. How lucky am I? Wouldn't I have been luckier to have not experienced it at all?

reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov


My position very much sucks. I'm the kind of person whose heavily preferred mental state is total acuity and clarity. I was a double science major so that should say something as well. There's not much "cute and fluffy" about me. I have a very long list of "flaky stuff" that I abhor and am severely reality based (comes from mental mind games that my mother used to try to play on me in "altering" my history). I don't like ambiguity and am relentless at seeking facts. That would be my self profile and it should be pretty plain to see in about every post that I make her. Now stick someone like me in my particular position where I know that I was, in fact, brainwashed. I'm in hell. The one good thing is that I am all those things and one hell of a researcher to boot. Never looked at my own life before with a fine lens but I am now.

I do have a link to that specific song from the tape on another thread in the Gray Area. It is absolutely a hypnotic based trigger. I am loathe to link it here because I don't know what lilultra has been through. Listening to it is pretty unsettling for some people. It's freaking weird and I hate its existence to be honest. I'd prefer being nuts because then there are pills for that. It'd make it a lot easier. The dialogue that has been gleaned from that particular song is this:

doesn't make any difference what the experience was....might be something big, might be something small..might be something...something..it doesn't matter. absolutely related to...your job...or school......personal experience...get into as deeply as possible...what were you wearing? ...recall it as vividly as you can...just bury it...the pride...the justified pride that you have...this is power...it's good.

Not creepy at all. To me, I think it is most likely a fail safe against remembering. The above basically is suggesting that I visualize an experience to the greatest extent possible and then burying it with a glossy coat of pride and sense of power. The lines of the chorus are:

Then I remember When the moon was full and bright I would take you in the darkness And do the tango in the night

I'd be also lying if I said that hearing that particular song didn't make me feel powerful. Not good. Flashing lights are used for interrogation along with musical bombardment. I did find that information in my research. It was used against prisoners in Iraq so that's a pretty uncomfortable thing to consider. My grandfather was military intelligence for an unknown length of time (his military records and AF-11 are heavily truncated but mentions of Holabird, military intel, DSS and being subject to an ebi are all still within the whopping 48 pages given post FOIA request from his 30 year career). I have two options really. 1. Blame the government, whose motive would be spurious or 2. Blame my significantly abusive family for using those techniques on me to cover for their own misbehavior. I tend towards the second because there is actually a motive there. I'd make for an unlikely Manchurian candidate as I would have been classified as 4-H due to bleeding disorders and juvenile RA. I'd make for a really gimpy assassin.

I was definitely groomed for the military. My summer vacations were filled with military touches but I tend to see it as being kind of like a plumber trying to teach his son his trade. My grandfather just happened to have been a director of training at one point in his career. I'd also make for a terrible sleeper because the first thing that people note about me is my military level posture. By the time I was in the 6th grade, I was singled out for it. I can't even stand in line normally. I stand "at ease". I'd never pass as a "Betty Homemaker". His intentions on the grooming were overt. He wanted me to follow his own career path and perhaps surpass him. Promised that I would make it into the USAF with no problems and he'd pull strings to fast track me into officers' school. There was nothing secret about those things.

The one thing that I've definitely learned from all of this is that my parents are incredible liars. You know it's bad when you have to blackmail your own parent to get information and I had very good threats that would've resulted in, at the least, jail time, loss of property, and loss of future expected income. I had him nailed to the wall. He gave me one year, said that's when something happened to me and that I was living with my grandfather. Wouldn't say what. What I do know is that my parents went from financially struggling to being able to buy a new home across the US plus money to start a business, courtesy of that same grandfather. That doesn't look good either. His admission to this was a bit of coup though as I had heard all my life that we moved from State A to State B. Instead, it turns out I lived in San Francisco with my grandfather for about a 1 1/2 between those two states.

No reason was given for denying me access to my own medical records. No PCP so that root is a bust. Nobody has been forthcoming with anything. Like I said, already dipped my toes into blackmail and blackmail is not in my nature.

I'm really very cautious about looking at external sites such as those because they tend to operate on a foregone conclusion. I'd rather come to my own conclusions about what happened to me to avoid the possibility of so-called "false memory". Luckily, I'm good at these kind of puzzles. Just never thought to turn it on myself. I've dug up a great deal.

lilultra--I like your poem very much. Feel that way a lot. Don't give up hope on actually feeling feeling (sounds so strange). I still bounce to dissociative states but not as severely as I once did. I am remembering things and with that came feeling. It was a bit messy for a bit because I wasn't used to it but I got the hang of it. I can cry now when I'm sad. You'll get there, too. I have a wicked good memory, too. I remember telephone numbers of friends from 30 years ago, lol. It just makes the not remembering so much worse because of that contrast, doesn't it?

I was taught by my mom to hide things. If someone asks "how are you?", you say "I'm fine, thank you, and you?" with a nice smile on your face, no lower teeth showing, eyes crinkled up a little to show its true...even if the family dog got run over that morning. Getting their children to have automated responses to intrusive and risky (to the abusive parent) is not uncommon with abusers. It's all about appearances. You know what's funny though? My jaw about dropped when you talked about your grandpa on his death bed. When my grandfather was dying, I was prevented from seeing or even talking to him. However, my mom told me that he was screaming for me in the last few weeks of life and begging everyone to protect and save me.

lilultra
reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov

 

How would you go about finding someone you could trust for either of these? I've been asked to do hypnosis by a therapist I trusted and walked out that day and never returned. I feel that if I could uncover some of my own past whether it be part of MK Ultra or not that it may help my brother but I don't want to change who I am. Hypnosis was suggested for PTSD and they wanted to "insert" a happy moment into the traumatic ones and I wasn't okay with altering my memories because I don't have them all. I want to save what I have as is. It would be very hard to get my brother to do something like this. And tricking him may be detrimental. so.. Where do you even start? Is it expensive or are there ppl that do it for free?

Listen, if you really want help you are going to have to trust someone. I know this can be hard. One thing you can do is always take someone you totally trust with you. If a doctor, therapist etc won't allow this then you don't want to use them anyway.

In taking someone with you you can feel at ease and be protected. I don't know much about mkultra but I do know that most people who were in the military any time prior to around 1985-87 were experimented on in one way or another. Most often in vaccines. These were drugs that a soldier could not refuse and we were often forced to sign weird secret waivers.

There was allot of other things done. It was not a good time to be a soldier. Fact is many other Americans were experimented on, orphans, and others. Even whole cities were experimented on in the past.

I pray for those who have suffered and I pray for the brother especially. There is help. Research before you use anyone and always take someone with you.

The Bot

I've done some more research on things. It's become apparent something happened. Still unsure of what. Could just be years of abuse and manipulation. Regardless. I don't understand "triggers" and how can I bring these to the forefront. I have on my own without any theory of mind control or anything like that noticed my disassociation triggers for my own growth. I want to explore other triggers but I don't know how to start. One article suggested observing every little thing in a room and how it makes you feel. I kinda have a problem doing this as I am trained to focus only on exits to rooms. My social worker noticed this and brought it to my attention. Every time I walk into a room or building, I make note and inspect every exit there is and which is faster/easier to use even when I'm not in danger. How can I move beyond this to find other triggers?

My research suggests exploring triggers is essential to finding the root of the abuse. So as you can see the block and focus on exits is hindering...

reply to post by lilultra


Has any therapist or the like ever considered that you may have childhood PTSD? I look for exits, too, and generally think that it's a response to needing to find a quick exit to safety from when times got rough. I definitely have the run and hide thing so exits are important. I also notice, lol, security cameras. It's funny because I've never engaged in a criminal act but sure enough, I always note them. I even note them outside. I remember waiting downtown for the commuter train and looking up at one atop a tall nearby building. A Vietnam vet in a wheelchair pulled up alongside me and looked up to see what I was looking at. He asked me what I was looking at up there and I said, "a camera" and pointed out where it was on the building. He was so surprised, laughed and said that although he spent nearly most of his day in that little square he never noticed the camera pointing down at him. I pointed out the 5 others covering the square.

Cameras and exits. I don't see it as hindering because, honestly, if something were to go wrong, at least you know where the exits are. That sounds awfully paranoid but when someone goes through really bad things as a child, you learn that the world can be terribly unkind.

One of the things that I would suggest is looking for repeat or patterned behaviors. Since you've got a big chunk of memory that has been black holed, you probably feel a bit like I do most days. Like you do a lot of things that you just don't know where they came from. I was on autopilot for so much and in the most seemingly insignificant ways that turned out to be significant in actually having a forgotten source. For instance, your compulsion to write--I have that, too. I started chronically writing in journals (poetry too!) when I was 13 well before I realized that my memory from the time before that was a big black hole. Other things I noted in looking at my own sets of patterns was Buddhas everywhere, lol. I was really shocked when I realized that I had at least 12 Buddhas in my house, tucked in nearly every room, and had started collecting them when I was still a teen. Not a huge number of Buddhas but significant in the fact that I always kept the Buddhas while other things in the house went their merry way. I even knew what each of the Buddha types were with no memory of ever looking into Buddha. That realization actually triggered broken memories of learning about Eastern teachings in a class and I was able to track that down. So now I know why I have Buddhas all over my house. I also chronically kept ball and box games (the kind you roll the ball around through a maze), tangrams, and 3 dimensional puzzles. All those things turned out to be toys that I had when I was a kid and I can now remember playing with them.

I think we may compulsively repeat things like the keeping of specific objects because we're almost like a quiet little broken record that skips back a little. Taking a moment to look around the house and see what objects are there and have stuck over the years can actually help stir some recollection, too. Give it a shot. Personally, I find it really nice to know from whence these things come. It makes me feel a whole lot disjointed from myself.

The exit response although seems paranoid is not drawn from paranoia. It's just something I've "learned." I also subconsciously know cameras also. Although I do not realize I'm doing it, at any time if someone was like Oh that camera just got you speeding. I'll usually either respond with I know or It's not at the right angle. Not ever purposely doing things or not doing them cuz of cameras.

My entire lifetime is PTSD. I am digging for my brother not myself. I have coped.

reply to post by lilultra


Oh that's hilarious. I'm the same way, even for the type of cameras that are in the dark little bubbles. Not hard to figure out the direction that they'd logically be pointed in. That is funny. I'm not a law breaker in the slightest. In fact, my kids complain of whiplash because I will hard brake as opposed to risk running a red, lol. I was also bonded for up to $3 million when I worked for banks and yet, I spot every freaking camera. There are so many these days.

I know you're most concerned about your brother as he is in a bad place right now. I just was offering a suggestion that I found was helpful to me personally since you suffer from the same issues. Also, since the both of you were obviously together through whatever you experienced, what you know about you may apply to your brother, too.

Your grandfather was in the military as well. I was a diehard loyalist (the only one left by the time he died) towards my grandfather. He was my hero and could do no wrong. In fact, when he was dying, I was getting in tremendous fights with both my sister and my mother on the subject of my grandfather. They kept saying things like "he's a sick man and has been for a long time" and more. I was pretty incensed by it. Now I get it and he is the logical and evidence based source of a lot of what made me me. Everything messed up led back to him. In hindsight, it makes sense. He was the father of my extremely messed up and abusive mother who can actually be a really good person at times, too. Sometimes things can be staring you right in the face and I've found that it is those things that I most readily accepted without question that were afoul. If you think something untoward may have happened to you and your brother with a touch of the old program, then who would be the logical source?

I had a horrible panic attack when my grandfather died. Hyperventilating. Couldn't breathe properly for a number of hours. I ended up in the ER over it. We always lived very very far from my grandparents and extended family with a minimum of two hours away. I have no idea why it effected me like it did. I was pregnant and blamed pregnancy. However, not to sound insensitive... but death doesn't really scare me nor make me upset. I accept it. I mean I miss people after they die. And love them and such. But I have been desensitized in many ways leaving many to think I lack normal emotions. This situation is one of them.

Been trying to remember things and maybe searching for "triggers" I'm not sure I fully understand it but I'm listing things here as I remember. I had a little shortcake doll that smelled like strawberries and for some reason I have searched for years and years for that scent. I haven't found it.

My mom made recordings of me as a child. I think she was asking me my favorites like color song etc... Said she wanted to keep them until I was older as a memory or sentimental or whatever. They no longer exist. I remember the thought of them. Don't remember making them nor what was on them. But it's strange they don't exist anymore. Maybe I made that up? I dunno. It's insignificant but always bothered me about why and where they went. She made them religiously. Cause I'd say the date and how long since the last one. Usually a week or month. I don't know when they stopped. I assume at age four as that's when my sister was born but I have no clue when they even started much less stopped.

My brother used to hallucinate. My parents always told us it was because he was sick and had a fever. I remember him chasing a BLUE BALL around the house that wasn't there. I don't remember him sick and thought it odd that my parents said he was "sick." I had him describe the ball to me. It was small. Fit in the size of your hand. I asked him to put it in my hand and he did. Then took off chasing it again saying it jumped out of my hand. He was around 4 making me 11. One of my fuzzy memories.

I also know I was a sleep walker and hallucinated a lot of things in my sleep. My parents tell these stories ALL THE TIME. I did it so much they were fearful I would leave the house. I still to this day talk in my sleep and sometimes wake myself up with my own "dream conversations." I've become so desensitized by things that even items from my past don't upset me. I went back to where I grew up and no memories. No negative feelings. This "trigger" response seems to be not there or at the least buried deeper than I have penetrated.

"What's love got to do with it" by Tina Turner reminds me of hospital parking lot where they took samples of my skin cells. I have a long history of skin issues so it makes sense except my skin problems didn't start til I was 17. It was my sister that had issues at a young age!

What sucks is I don't know what's real and what's not and start to question my sanity when I "remember" or vocalize these memories. As if continuing to not remember is safer.... or especially now after what's happened with my brother... just better off...

reply to post by lilultra


lol I had a little Strawberry Shortcake doll when I was younger. I remember coming across a whole box of toys when we moved as a young adult and being told that they were my toys. The strawberry smell was the only thing that stirred dust bunnies in that box. She's most likely still in that box in the attic here. I've thought about climbing up there to drag the box down and try again but honestly, the attic here creeps me out plus I have a raccoon that keeps running across my roof. I think I'd probably have a heart attack if I went up there with a flash light and saw glowing eyes back at me, lol. I used to get to sent to the attic to practice for band when I was 12. I think it scarred me a little, lol.

Those tapes are probably somewhere around, just stowed away. My mother absconded with a whole slew of pages from the family photo album of my earlier childhood. When I was poking around her house, I checked the photo album and there the missing pages were, tucked inside loosely. I remember looking at that photo album when I was a teen and recollecting that there had been other pictures. My mom said I was wrong and that nothing was missing. I told her that the pictures of her with long brown hair were gone and she said that she never had long brown hair. Got really mad at me, said I was misremembering and I dropped it. In those restored pages were those pictures of her with long brown hair. I didn't misremember. She lied.

So, either the case is that your mom just has them stowed away somewhere relatively inaccessible for storage purposes or they were deliberately removed to take away things that could trigger memory. Recollection comes best with familiar objects, photos, audio and etc to view.

"To forget a period of one's life is to lose contact with those who then surrounded us....there must be enough points of contact so that any remembrance they recall to us can be reconstructed on a common foundation." Maurice Halbwach.

In our case, we could be surrounded by those who remember and yet, still lose that memory or have it become malformed through omission or subversion.

lilultra
What sucks is I don't know what's real and what's not and start to question my sanity when I "remember" or vocalize these memories. As if continuing to not remember is safer.... or especially now after what's happened with my brother... just better off...

This right here. I don't know how reasonable it is for you but what I do is try to confirm points of recollection. One of my recollections was of being in a really nice, kind of 70's modern house with another girl and my sister. Was just a few blips recollected and in one of those blips, I held a doll that seemed bigger than me. The more I thought about that one identifiable thing (god bless the internet)--this chubby baby doll that you could pull on her auburn hair to make it "grow" stupidly long, the more the bunnies stirred until "Chrissy" popped in my head. I gave it a gamble and sure enough, found her, Crissy.

Here she is: crissyandbeth.com...

The way that false memory purportedly happens is generally through suggestion and through inappropriately done hypnosis where the hypnotist didn't take care. The way that I see it is that if I can verify an aspect of a memory, like above, then it tilts the recollection towards being real. There was no way that I was going to verify a private home's existence. Talking to my sister isn't an option and I have no clue who the other girl was. However, I could verify that that huge baby doll existed and that the recollection is most likely real.

The best thing for you to do for both you and your brother is to see what it is that you recall because you're the one whose sanity isn't being questioned. Remembering things is scary. There's a reason why we blocked them. The odds are that there were some pretty bad things that occurred regardless of source. There are plenty of days that I wish I hadn't recollected anything at all. It's short lived because the funny thing about remembering things is that it ends up making you feel whole again.

Hate to ask you of this... but if you could somehow someway get the strawberry shortcake doll and send it to me? If its not too much to ask... I mean I could send it back if you wanted me to... but for some reason I need to find it. I don't know why. I don't believe there are many things left from my childhood. I have a box of stuff which I went thru with no "triggers" negative or positive. I gave most of the things to my own children because they are thought to be from mine and I wanted to pass them down. No cassettes. My mom said they were taped over. I'd never do that if I had recordings of my kids! I have ALL my stuffed animals. Garbage bags full. No emotions. Just know by my own recollection or just from stories told to me that they were mine growing up.... Is it possible that I reconditioned myself to positive thoughts vs negative? I mean... That sounds weird... But I have changed my whole view on life. I have a purpose. The things I've endured are not in vein. I really truly love myself, my family, and everything about my life. (by family I mean the one I've made myself) I think hypnosis will be essential with a "viewer" close to me that I trust. I need to know even if they are gonna tell me I'm nuts and my house was white picket fence like we pretended... but I doubt.

Was actually a part of when I realized my disassociation. I started changing my entire views of how I felt about negative experiences. My car accident and near death experiences... even with the six months amnesia... I was able to to dissolve the negative feelings towards things... And I like it so I continue with it. Conditioning. Changing. I still know that there are things about myself that I wouldn't want anyone to know. Brain washing... Sociopathic tendencies... Who knows.... But I just enjoy my life happy. I only revisit this to know about my past so I can help my brother pull thru. I told him yesterday that I felt he would be safest moving into my house after he gets out of the group home. That I thought I may know what's going on and although I won't discuss it with him that I felt he would be safest here. I told him I was talking to specialists in memory lost and things like that. And planned to adventure into my personal past. If the outcome is as I think it will be, he will be safest in my home.

I mean really! My parents had many teenagers in our home thru foster care. Many of who ran away. Not I can't remember things. And may even have had some sort of brain washing or at the least abuse to repress memories. Why did they have foster kids in there home???? And then I ended up in foster care....

rambling. trying to understand. night for today! i have contacted someone specializing in mind control and have some leads. i obviously am not scare if anyone knows! lol id love for someone that did this to me know i will uncover this. i would love them to retaliate against me. im not scared.

reply to post by lilultra


I have cured 16 people who claim to have been harassed by psychotronics with a simple sound mix that disables the bio relevant feed back loop that feeds the determination engine in the magic tree system FREEING the target from real time harassment. It is free for a copy of the CD, so if you or anyone wants one just send me a private message with your address and I will send one.I am an electronic Eng and this is no hoax.

reply to post by lilultra


Believe it or not, I would send you my Strawberry Shortcake doll. It was the first thing that popped into my head. Unfortunately, I have a brain injury from a fall and am expressly forbidden from climbing even atop a chair due to balance and perception issues. Climbing into the attic is an absolute no-no for me. The lack of emotional response or, as I put it, "blankness" is part of the dissociation.

Be really very careful of who you interact with. I cannot emphasize that enough. When one's memory is shot, it leaves an individual extremely vulnerable. I have some very curious interactions over the last few years and some of them were really very disconcerting. None of the posters here, mind you. There are some seriously odd people that claim to have information and I heavily suggest extreme caution as this is your life and your perception of it. A friend of mine turned out to be smitten with me and a former interrogator. He cautioned me heavily on pursuit of this subject and who to trust (yourself) among other things.

It's also why I opted to be self reliant and, so far, that's really been very effective. When I started thinking outside of the proverbial box is where I really started making headway. Music is another area that can actually help trigger emotions and recollection because that's what music is. Music appeals to the heart and can have very strong associations. The brain lights up like a firecracker listening to music so a song's associations can be triggered back into recollection.

One of the things that I did was dig out my old 45s and sorted through them by year. I owned an average of about 30 45s per year except in a two year period where the number of 45s drops to 3 and then, it goes back up to the 30 per year average. Those two years also match other aspects of my life that are a clear signal that something occurred with me so that was really strange. Either I dropped off the planet or somebody (most likely my mother) purged my 45s from that period. I ended up looking at a list of songs from those two years and recollected owning several in the 45 version. Going to youtube and listening to those songs triggered off some memories as well as feelings from that time period. I honestly don't know why those 45s were removed. It could've been my mother (presumably, seems her cup of tea) didn't like the content/attitudes of those songs and tossed them. Or it could've been something else was going on and those 45s were disposed of intentionally to disrupt recollection. Who knows.

The point is music is effective, free (thanks to the internet) and lists of popular songs of most genres are available by year. It's also not going to mislead you.

reply to post by dlbott


In 1988 I got my degree in electronic eng. and began to work on several inventions including a light operated computer in 1997, during the patent proses I took a break and went and visited my parents . The following can happen to you also.I got an electronic screeching sound in both ears and went in my old bedroom and began to read a book, the TV was on in the other room. It began to flip channels by itself and blew up with a loud noise including screams and violins .A truck pulls up and a guy walks right in our locked house at 9:00 at night and starts yelling the following..............."YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TURN DOWN EMOTIONS WE CANT KEEP BLOWING EQUIPMENT, WE LOST ALPHA TO ZULU(5 sec pause)"I DINT KNOW< HE JUST WALKED IN HIS ROOM" I then cried my self to sleep and have no memory till the next day . The screeching started again the next day and with sleep deprivation my life was destroyed in front of me. after much research I found the term"ALPHA TO ZULU" is a military phrase meaning A to Z.
I now have invented the countermeasure for the biorelevent feedback loop that is used in there psychotronics and have cured 16 people and have stoped there intellectual rape of my person and have more than when I was attacked, more knowledge, and abilities.I now have the name of the operation and the members.IT WAS CALLED OPERATION CLEAN SWEEP (1997-1998)anyone that wants a copy of this simple sound that acts as a fire wall for the brain just send me a message ,it is free and this is no hoax.Clean sweep used quote"FREQUENCIES THAT EFFECT EMOTIONS".

reply to post by lilultra


That storie is true. I am sure of it. If he is in wis. I have heard lots of reports of massive attacks on people there. Basicly dont ever move to wis. As soon as you show up your a new target. And to them its all fun and games. I personally cant understand how people can participate in such cruelty. And it seems most people involved which are most it seems in this state dont know the
e extent of what there realy doing. They get people to.participant

reply to post by pathwalker777


Sorry posted from phone and it got messed up and cant fix it in edit lol..... continue ....
they get people to participant by filling there heads with lies about the target. So the real. g-men can totally mess with there minds and lives stay the f out of wis trust me

reply to post by pathwalker777


Yea, its getting very bad here because it is covert, and by using cell towers and other house hold electronics they make us pay for there big toys used to torch-er the ones they were hired to protect. It is as if the corporate military thinks we are just STUPID rag dolls to expironment on to develop weapons to sell to other countries to enrich themselves.

reply to post by lilultra


Yes lilutra, there are ways to determine if you were a part of MKULTRA/Monarch Programming. You can know. You already do know. Either you were or you weren't. There is no inbetween with this thing. Child abuse of any type can be debilitating for a lifetime. How one person handles it within a family can be totally different from a sibling. Now, here's the thing: child abuse among families who are involved in Monarch Mind Control statistically have higher rates of child abuse within the family system and the manifestation of the abuse can run the gamut from systematic intentional abuse to abuse as a 'side effect' of the mind control process itself.

You cannot determine if you were a part of these programs solely by intrafamiliar child abuse alone.

Bur there are other factors that can be viewed in terms of a profile for who was subjected to the programming.


Now, having said that, there are people posting on this site who will vehemtly dispute everything I am telling you....as evidenced by what's been said about me ...to me on the MKULTRA Divisions thread in this posting category ( Military). I will assume you have already looked at that thread. I posted some information about the structure of the process, but I haven't discussed at length about the profile criteria for the children that were 'chosen' ....which is a word that is actually used to tell the children how 'special' they are for being subject to unimaginable abuse...and exploitation that lasts a lifetime.

Before I delve into the profile of chosen children, I would ask you two questions first;

One: You said in your post above that you were 'happy' with who you are. I understand about your care and concern for your brother, but I also want to ask you what makes you THINK there is a possibility that you might have been a part of MKULTRA ? It it soley based on your brother's situation or do you have your own reasons....thoughts...recollections that seem odd or out of sync with the rest of your life's history(and I understand about the MRI results)?

Two: How badly do you really want to know?
Some people...in my experience working with mind control survivors ...find out about their involvement in all this and later on regret it....they regret knowing consciously.

Trying to confirm you or your brother's participation in MKULTRA VIA DECLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS is a futile search. I know there are people posting who are survivors of mind control who think the information contained in declassified once 'secret' documents believe they are the end all in terms of finding the 'truth' about what happened to them and their families...siblings...etc. on these programs....but I can tell you definitively it just isn't so. What you are essentially doing in taking up that path is trusting that the very same people who may have co-opted your body and mind by brutally kidnapping, torturing , raping. and subjecting you to all manner of highly sophisticated mind control techniques.....and further life-long exploitation after that potentially....and you expect...(I am using 'you' in the general not specific sense here) that they are going to tell the entire truth in those so- called de-classified documents???

Truth wrapped up nicely with lies to redirect one away from finding out what they really don't want you or anyone you or anyone to know us more like it.

Nor will you find the whole truth on the Internet either...anywhere...and in fact you can again be mislead with similar propaganda and half-truths and half-lies.

Even on these message boards talking with survivors, myself included....although I do claim confidence in knowing more than most and I don't apologize for it....still you must ultimately use a combination of discernment, reasoning and your intrinsic senses....your intuitive knowingness ...or 'gut' feeling as your navigating core resource in your search into this topic and into your own possible involvement in all this...s**t.

I have not read the rest of the your posts on this thread yet so perhaps I should before I post further. Perhaps you have already answered the first and or second questions I asked you here.

Whatever your answers....I truly hope you find what you are looking for...and I wish you the best in your search.

I hope what you are considering in terms of evidence for you and your brother's possible involvement in all this becomes a definite 'no' as the final answer as opposed to what could be a life-altering 'yes'.

I would wish that for anybody.


Pro Libertate!

-OSR