NASA to Send NEW Rover to the Moon in 2018 to Mine Water

Blastoff
Ok now let me get this straight... so now all of a sudden it is feasible to make fuel from water?
Sure wish they could do that here on earth!

Water is two parts hydrogen (H2) and one part oxygeb (O), the two combined to-gether with an electric spark, causing an explosion, hence rocket fuel and oxygenator, I was shown this 60 years ago in science class, its every easy to split water into its two components,
its a very simple process. (I suggest Google it)

reply to post by MALBOSIA


Well you still didn't come out with what you are worried about.

We can't de-orbit the moon (have it fall on us), as it's mass is much too great. The energy requirement is much more than we'd be able to produce.

We can't fling the moon out of orbit, for the same reason as above.

We can't "over mine" the moon making it go away, or drastically reducing it's mass, as I already explained in an earlier post.

Could something be "dropped" on us from the moon? Absolutely. But then, we can already do that from orbit, or sub orbital missiles.

Can we "mess up" the moon's environment?
Kind of hard to mess up something that is already very hostile: It's mostly a hard vacuum, so no air pollution. Any water is frozen as ice in craters that are always in the dark or underground. Temperatures vary from well over boiling point of water during the moon's day, to a couple hundred degree's below zero during the moon's night. There is absolutely no protection from solar or cosmic radiation on the moon's surface. The moon is constantly being impacted by even the smallest asteroids.......

So again, I'm just very curious as to what it is exactly that you or anyone else i worried about.

As for "the powers that be" hiding a ELE: pretty hard to do. Way too many eyes on the sky if it comes from that way. Most of the things that come from the Earth itself are pretty hard to know in advance.

Makes for great Hollywood movies and books. Kind of hard to do in real life.

Does any one feel like me we are about over due to see the next generation of propulsion system they have been hiding away. We are way overdue, liquid burning rockets are old hat, lets see what ya got.

reply to post by eriktheawful


non of my elaborations mentioned "over mining" specifically. I never really said anything specifically to be honest. I am not imagining this lineally. Just like WW2, the danger was not a war that kill everyone and last forever, it was the military-industrial complex that grew around it. No more nukes got dropped but a profit motivated war machine still grew to heights never seen before.

NASA and their operations are not what I am worried about. It is their contractors apatite for profit and destruction that will chart what direction this heads in.

If NASA cannot pitch a good enough case for big enough profits then something will come along that will allow military in, then the contracts get very attractive.

I am saying it here and I am sticking to it. I don't know exactly hoe these space resource explorations will play out, nonr of us could. I do not believe it will be beneficial or even peaceful.

have none of you figured out how this place works? Imagine how things could be better, then do the exact opposite.

reply to post by MALBOSIA


Life and devopment move forward. You cant stop it.

Moving out into our solar system is Inevitable.

Unless you come up with some REAL solid reasons moving into space will kill us all then its just Irrational baseless fear.

The earth can not support our growing population and modern living.

You have 4 options:
1) go with science and progress and hope it leads us somewhere nice.
2) Kill yourself and help sort the overpopulation out
3) Smash all you tec up and go live in a mud hut off the grid
4) Do nothing and end up watching the human race detsroy itself and the planet/


I opt for option 1

crazyewok
reply to post by MALBOSIA

 

Life and devopment move forward. You cant stop it.

Moving out into our solar system is Inevitable.

Unless you come up with some REAL solid reasons moving into space will kill us all then its just Irrational baseless fear.

The earth can not support our growing population and modern living.

You have 4 options:
1) go with science and progress and hope it leads us somewhere nice.
2) Kill yourself and help sort the overpopulation out
3) Smash all you tec up and go live in a mud hut off the grid
4) Do nothing and end up watching the human race detsroy itself and the planet/


I opt for option 1

I guess you pick option #4 then??? And you want to tuck tail and run instead of stopping it?

reply to post by MALBOSIA


Stop what?

I want to see progression. Im with option1. Your the one stuck on option 4 of doing nothing.

The resources in the solar system can supply us with everything we need for thousands of years 100000000x over!

As soon as we reach the stars all competition and wars over our finite land and resources stop.

Why fight over rare earths when its as common as dirt?

There more pros than I see cons with moveing into space.

reply to post by MALBOSIA


Military contracts?

Okay: it's MUCH easier to drop bombs from low Earth orbit, or from Geosynchornous orbit, than it is from the moon. It is a LOT harder to drop things from the moon on to the Earth. It can be done, but it would take DAYS for it to reach here. Days in which anything sent, will be seen well in advanced and intercepted.
Surprise and quickness works much better.

Much easier, much faster, and much more pin point accuracy to drop things directly from orbit about the Earth. Which we can already do if we want, with little fuss, no huge rockets to get to the moon, and on a much faster time scale.

The only other thing I can think of for military presence on the moon would be to take over someone's claim or to defend a claim. Considering how big the moon is, and how long it would take to fully colonize it, that would be rather funny. By the time we've done that, we'll be busy working on Mars and the asteroids.

crazyewok
reply to post by MALBOSIA

 

Stop what?

I want to see progression. Im with option1. Your the one stuck on option 4 of doing nothing.

The resources in the solar system can supply us with everything we need for thousands of years 100000000x over!

As soon as we reach the stars all competition and wars over our finite land and resources stop.

Why fight over rare earths when its as common as dirt?

There more pros than I see cons with moveing into space.

I wish I shared your optimism. This a market based society. You want to go to space? Figure out a way to make it profitable or build your own space program. Otherwise get comfy... your going to be here a while.

eriktheawful
reply to post by MALBOSIA

 

Military contracts?

Okay: it's MUCH easier to drop bombs from low Earth orbit, or from Geosynchornous orbit, than it is from the moon. It is a LOT harder to drop things from the moon on to the Earth. It can be done, but it would take DAYS for it to reach here. Days in which anything sent, will be seen well in advanced and intercepted.
Surprise and quickness works much better.

Much easier, much faster, and much more pin point accuracy to drop things directly from orbit about the Earth. Which we can already do if we want, with little fuss, no huge rockets to get to the moon, and on a much faster time scale.

The only other thing I can think of for military presence on the moon would be to take over someone's claim or to defend a claim. Considering how big the moon is, and how long it would take to fully colonize it, that would be rather funny. By the time we've done that, we'll be busy working on Mars and the asteroids.

I do not mean fighting on earth FROM space. I mean fighting IN space from space. We already have military build up from numerous countries on our north pole region. And that is just for a few shipping lanes and deep oil. Imagine what sort of conflicts may ramp up over who has the right to Helium3 on the moon or some other mineral or resource that could be a game changer down here.

One world government, or no peace in space

How about we stop trying to put the cart ahead of the horse eh?

reply to post by MALBOSIA


Well you obviously still have a 1980's mind-set.

Private sector has being making leaps and strides in the last couple of years.

SpaceX have turned the LEO launch costs upside down with only there first attempts and pretty much have put Lockheed and Boeing to shame and have plane for decreasing the costs further.

Then you have plans like SKYLON that plan a simple Single stage to orbit vessel capable of transporting cargo and crew which is coming along nicely and has even secured UK government funding which is a big feat over here at the moment and to top it off there’s some tec in the pipeline from boeing that going to make SSTO a very real possibility.

crazyewok
reply to post by MALBOSIA

 

Well you obviously still have a 1980's mind-set.

Private sector has being making leaps and strides in the last couple of years.

SpaceX have turned the LEO launch costs upside down with only there first attempts and pretty much have put Lockheed and Boeing to shame and have plane for decreasing the costs further.

Then you have plans like SKYLON that plan a simple Single stage to orbit vessel capable of transporting cargo and crew which is coming along nicely and has even secured UK government funding which is a big feat over here at the moment and to top it off there’s some tec in the pipeline from boeing that going to make SSTO a very real possibility.

I hope your right.

In the mean time... how about this water based propulsion? It only works in space?

reply to post by MALBOSIA


You take water, which is made of 2 Hydrogen atoms and 1 Oxygen atom. You add current to it, and you separate the two, splitting them. now you have Hydrogen, and you have Oxygen. Both burn, and Oxygen acts as an oxidizer in liquid fueled rocket systems.

You also have oxygen that can be combined now to breath, and again, you have hydrogen to burn for energy, be it heat, steam, etc.

And of course water to drink or to water your plants.

So yes we can do it here. More important the question is: is their enough water ice in the moon at can be accessed to be used for these things. If not, then you'd have to ship large (heavy) quanities of water from the Earth up to the moon and that cost $$$$

As for the Horse and Cart: better to put it in front than to wait until there is no horse or cart for that mater. Space exploration and scientific research in space is one of the most peaceful things that individual countries do together. This isn't the cold war of the 50's and 60's anymore.

Fighting a war in space makes for great blockbuster movies. On a practical real life level? Very hard to do. Very expensive to do.

The Moon has been ignored as a base for years, so why now all this attention? Possibly because China is in position to grab some land and glory? India, Japan and EU are all under the influence of NASA and have to carry US payloads or 'experiments' aboard their spacecraft. China, although may not be so experienced at space travel, at least has started to offer an alternative to the US space program and its controlling release of data. Maybe between the two of them they will allow us to see what they see and know a little of what they know about life on other rocks and in space. I can only hope.

Knowing mankind like we do, watching him work, do you think any other world will be managed differently? I certainly don't and if any of you do, then you are misleading yourselves. We just dont seem to be able to do things which are in the interests of all people or even our own people.

As an example, look at the missing flight MH370 at the moment. It is said that there are many countries who are not supplying their radar and other data because it would expose their radar systems to the international community (everyone would know what capabilities they had) Australia/US/UK/India/China, etc all have technology which is private and under a security blanket.

We have hundreds of people who are missing, yet all these countries will not find a way to share their data so that the international community can find this plane. How strange is that?

This is what I am worried about - that we are going to crap on our own doorstep - again.

crazyewok

Unless you come up with some REAL solid reasons moving into space will kill us all then its just Irrational baseless fear.

It does not have to kill us all to be not worth the risk. How can it be baseless as it is based on past experience of human behaviour? That is not baseless. Irrational? No, logically, you look at past actions and project them forward. Thats not irrational either. It says a lot about the human race and about how government agencies work.

reply to post by pikestaff


Yes, you are right.

My comment was supposed to have a sarcastic tone to it.