Search for million missing Iraqis...

...to take decades: Iraqi minister.

As per the article:

SARAJEVO (AFP) - The search for more than a million Iraqis who went missing under the regime of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) may take more than 30 years due to the lack of local expertise and poor security, Iraqi Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin said.

More than ONE million people...gone or missing under Saddam.
The article further mentions:

"Saddam turned Iraq into a museum of crimes, into a land of mass graves," the minister said, referring to the ousted dictator who is now on trial for crimes against humanity.

One Million

As has been previously discussed in near-past ATS topics in this forum, nearly 283 mass grave sites have been found or identified. No, this is not a topic that will delve into the reasonings behind why the US and Coalition went to war against Iraq. What I wish this topic to delve into is the sheer numbers of the atrocities committed by this one regime. Some here have continually refuted this above information as propaganda and 'half-truth's', and yet, those same people fail to look into this and past reportings on this to reveal fact from fiction. It has been said that Time ultimately reveals all, and in this above case, as Time goes by, the more we are becoming aware of the sheer morbid and horrendous atrocities committed and instigated by the Saddam/Baath Party Regime. Just how many were shredded by paper shredding machines, anyhow?



seekerof

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Seekerof]

Great. Another Iraqi numbers game with zero proof for anything concerning it.

Wake me up when they find them all.

Wake me up when they find them all.

I'm sorry, did you expect Saddam to dispose of them in an organized fashion and catalog them so that when he was finally deposed we would be able to easily discover the nasty things he did?

Pretty callous statement.

I find it incredible that so many people who scream about how horrible America is treating the Iraqis completely ignore what went on there before. It's ok to kill people as long as you're not American?

[edit on 11-22-2004 by Djarums]

Amazing that they are able to talk about millions of iraqis missing but US since the war has not taking any interest keep track of the "causalties" count of civilians, the only count is the one in which injured die in the several hospitals around in the cities.

I was under the impression that no evidence of this was ever found and it was mearly propoganda rumours, I could be wrong though. As far as I was aware only a few thousand bodies had been found, although any bodies at all is a terrible thing. I am not trying to say that a few thousand is acceptable.

Also, I believe Tony Blair publicly admitted none of this was founded on any real facts or evidence.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Kriz_4]

Amnesty International claims 17.000 political executions by Saddam. Amnesty is more credible than CIA operatives

www.antiwar.com...

Originally posted by Djarums
I'm sorry, did you expect Saddam to dispose of them in an organized fashion and catalog them so that when he was finally deposed we would be able to easily discover the nasty things he did?

Pretty callous statement.

Callousness over an extremely unverified number to create some sort of justification for the invasion and occupation of Iraq where the game of numbers and the lies associated with them have been shot at the public since it started? Get off it. You can be very cynical over this type of report with due reason.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Frith]

Amnesty International claims 17.000 political executions by Saddam. Amnesty is more credible than CIA operatives

And yet no uproar is raised about that. And yet it was considered the acceptable route to leave a person who (let's use your number) executed 17,000 men women and children.

Put it into perspective: More uproar is raised when one insurgent is killed under disgraceful circumstances than 17,000 people who did nothing but not show blind loyalty to Saddam?

Again, it seems that it's ok to kill Iraqi civilians as long as you aren't American.

The logical conclusion is that the moral cries come from people who don't care at all about the Iraqi civilians but are more concerned about having ammo against America. If I'm wrong about that why do some people still say we should have left Hussein in power?

Originally posted by Djarums

Put it into perspective: More uproar is raised when one insurgent is killed under disgraceful circumstances than 17,000 people who did nothing but not show blind loyalty to Saddam?

Again, it seems that it's ok to kill Iraqi civilians as long as you aren't American.

You still don't get it do you, people are dying in Iraq everyday women, children and "insurgents" because I imagine that every man killed will be insurgent.

And for what? you call it liberation from the evil sadam, darn, US is becoming as evil but under "liberation" I guess is better to swallow.

So i raise the same question to you again. Was it ok that Saddam was killing his own people, and should he have been left in power to continue doing that?

I'm not saying that the US's efforts there are going well, and I'm not really interested in debating that right now because that is unending.

What I'm asking is why no one seems to think that Saddam's murders seem to matter anymore.

Originally posted by Djarums
So i raise the same question to you again. Was it ok that Saddam was killing his own people, and should he have been left in power to continue doing that?

What I'm asking is why no one seems to think that Saddam's murders seem to matter anymore.

And I will bring it again, what is more justify what Sadam did in 30 years of rule or what we have accomplish to do in lest that two years, do the math.

Oh, sorry I forgot US is not bind by international law to keep taps of the death in the civilian community but we has done a very good job on keeping Sadams.

Double standards everything is double standards to benefit one side.

Originally posted by Djarums
Put it into perspective: More uproar is raised when one insurgent is killed under disgraceful circumstances than 17,000 people who did nothing but not show blind loyalty to Saddam?

Again, it seems that it's ok to kill Iraqi civilians as long as you aren't American.

May i remind you that Marines just killed a couple of thousand iraqis in Falluja because 'they did nothing but not show blind loyalty' to the US ?

By the way, if we are to measure the 'vileness' of a regime by its number of political executions, as the OP is apparently intent on, let's not forget the hundreds of thousands killed and tortured by death squads of US puppet regimes in South America or the middle east, and let's not forget the over eight millions butchered directly or 'indirectly' by the US in Asia (Vietnam, Kampuchea).





[edit on 22-11-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]

Care to reveal and cite your sourcings for those elaborate and obviously over-hyped numeric allegations you have asserted there, Moku?

Besides, in further reading your counter-article, it additionally asserts, something that you selectively choose to ignore or mention, that along with those 17,000 reported, that the Human Rights Watch reported nearly 300,000! Wow. Moku, you make any CIA agent-wanna-be envious.

Those numbers from Human Rights Watch go hand-in-hand with those that have been reported in years past concerning Saddam and the 'numbers' to which he is responsible for killing. From 2003:

Since then, Mr. Hussein's has been a tale of terror that scholars have compared to that of Stalin, whom the Iraqi leader is said to revere, even if his own brutalities have played out on a small scale. Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, historians have concluded. Even on a proportional basis, his crimes far surpass Mr. Hussein's, but figures of a million dead Iraqis, in war and through terror, may not be far from the mark, in a country of 22 million people.

How Many People Has Saddam Killed?

As for those suspect Amnesty International numbers of 17,000....in this 2002 article, Amnesty International mentions:

Amnesty International estimates that over 100,000 Kurds were killed or disappeared during1987-1988, in an operation known as the Anfalcampaigns, to quell Kurdish insurgency andactivities.

2195 (FCO) Saddam-Human rights

Big difference in 17,000 and 100,000 reported by the same source, eh? Oh...thats right, you only mentioned that the 17,000 were merely political executions.

Over one million people in a nation that bearly has 23 million in it, Moku. Your continued trivializing and downsizing the degree of Saddam's astrocities is both fascinating and deluded.


seekerof

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Seekerof]

I think we can scratch the 23 million since US invasion in Iraq. And for the one million of death I wonder where are the proof, while US and �coalition� forces are pilling the death in Iraq as now I wonder where the death from Sadam is hiding.

Because so far the mass grave has proven not to be in the ten of thousands that was suppoused to be in them.

Because so far the mass grave has proven not to be in the ten of thousands that was suppoused to be in them.

Ummm, what search engine you using? Have you turned the "bias" setting to 'off' to get it to work right?

You, as others, might want to try using a bit of objective sense and become a tad bit unbiased and do an actual research on this yourself, and you would be happily surprised to find that what your thinking of such is quite wrong.



seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof

Ummm, what search engine you using? Have you turned the "bias" setting to 'off' to get it to work right?

seekerof

Not bias Seederof just tired or listening to the justification of this war that so far has proved bogus, if you have some links with pictures I will like to see them.

I do have a very good search engine "Copernic professional" and so far what I get is old news from graves that were discovered back in January.

I am not bias I just want to know why our troops are dying for it and so the people of Iraq, after the years of such a horrible dictatorship with Sadam.

You call me bias but I called just feeling human.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by marg6043]

Text"It will take more than 30 years ... to find more than one million missing," Amin said Monday, adding that the main problem was the lack of experts and technical support to identify bodies.

Still this proves nothing. I wonder if they are going to make sure that the death from the coallition forces will be identify also.

Hopefully one day history books will count the names of all those who help Saddam come to power, all those who sold him weapons, all those who shaked his hand and called him an "ally";
all those who closed their eyes to atrocities he commited against people, but then used those victims to justify their own petty little goals;
all those who proffited on suffering of Iraqi people;
all those who were VERY quick to secure oil fields, but very slow to secure borders and prevent foreign fighters from entering the country;
all those will hopefully be counted as MONSTERS of our era, a rightful title for abominations of humanity.

Suffering of Iraq, cold and hot wars fought there, profit greed, is a shame on the whole human kind.
A lot of mosters will escape punishment on Earth... hopefully God won't have mercy on their souls.

Originally posted by paperclip
all those who were VERY quick to secure oil fields, but very slow to secure borders and prevent foreign fighters from entering the country;

And I wonder if the administration did it in purpose just to keep justifing the war in that country, things like that make you go Hummmmm.

The oil feilds where the most vital strategic area in Iraq, without their ability to produce oil Iraq would have no economy. Of course they moved quickly to secure them, if they were to have been destroyed the U.S would have been called irresponsible and stupid for not protecting Iraq's most vital natiural recsource.

Theres plenty of blood on Bush's hands as well as every other leader in this world, but don't be so biased in your vewing of the truth. Your hatred of Bush and American foreign policy blinds you to the other more terrible things people like Saddam did and still do to the people of earth.

You also state that thousands of civilians have been killed in Falluja, yet the red cross recently stated that only around 150 families remained in the whole city. Look at the big picture, be a little objective, don't just twist the facts to fit what you already believe about the war