Brainstorming for a possible Space Warp Field detector

I've read a couple of posts remarking on the desirability of our having some means of detecting the supposed space warp fields of putative extraterrestrial space craft. I agree that, baring actual communications with ETs, such a device would be the next best thing.

How might we even begin to devise such a device, though? I was thinking about the work of Dr. Harold White at NASA, Houston. He has been able to get results from a couple of experiments, now, consistent with the creation of a warp field. The beam of a laser was sent through a strong toroidal electric field, and compared to a beam making a trip of the very same apparent length, but not through the electric field. Afterward, there was a slight difference in the two laser beams, suggesting that the first one may have traversed less normal space than the second.
If Dr. White is on the right track, it seems that a strong positive energy field of toroidal shape may be able to create a warp field, something previously thought to require negative energy, which is something much, much harder to come by.
I began to wonder: if an ordinary electrical field can create a warp field, albeit a very small one, at this point, is it possible that more or less the reverse holds? Might an electrical field change is the presence of a warp field?
I charged a small capacitor with a battery. I then connected the capacitor to a digital voltmeter. The voltage indicated declined very slowly over time. This is to be expected. What surprised me, though, was that the decline was neither steady, nor apparently systematic, in any way. It seemed to be random. So obvious was the irregular rate of discharge, slower, then faster, then slower again, etc. that it could not be missed.
While I wouldn't presume to say that I have detected the warp fields of passing ET spacecraft, this remains at least a possibility. If anyone wishes to duplicate my experiment, or offer another explanation for the apparent random variability of the rate at which the capacitor discharges itself, you are more than welcome to do so.

reply to post by Ross 54


I really hope you're kidding lol

Advanced technology that we can't even begin to replicate/duplicate brought down by a battery and a capacitor.
Im not an electronics wiz, but it seems like there are more plausible reasons for your findings.

reply to post by Ross 54


I have questions : Dr. White's experiments... what sort of data in other sorts of electrical fields induced ? Surely he would have been ' all over the place ' .

How does your ' voltmeter ' react in other experiments ?

Thanks, S/F.

No, I'm not kidding. I'm quite serious.
I fully realize that there may be a mundane explanation for what I am observing. I looked for possible explanations of this sort, but found none that fit the facts.

It's not clear to me that the simple instrumentality I used is, in itself, an argument against the possibility that the warp fields of extraterrestrial space vessels can be detected in this way.
The tendency seems to have been to work out how long it takes a capacitor to discharge itself entirely, or to discharge from a specific higher level to a lower one. I haven't discovered that anyone has looked into the second-by-second rhythm of the direct current discharging process, or thought that it was anything other than regular or predictable.

All you'd have to do is look up into the sky at night and try to see any obvious "puckering" or "ballooning" in the starfield. Bending spacetime would likely not be a nice, neat endeavor, and it's very possible that you'd be able to see it pretty easily if it was happening in the space above you. There might also be a "rippling" effect as the gravity waves were bounced around.

reply to post by Ross 54


Heretic! The Ordos will hunt you down by the Golden Throne.

Ross 54
No, I'm not kidding. I'm quite serious.
I fully realize that there may be a mundane explanation for what I am observing. I looked for possible explanations of this sort, but found none that fit the facts.

It's not clear to me that the simple instrumentality I used is, in itself, an argument against the possibility that the warp fields of extraterrestrial space vessels can be detected in this way.
The tendency seems to have been to work out how long it takes a capacitor to discharge itself entirely, or to discharge from a specific higher level to a lower one. I haven't discovered that anyone has looked into the second-by-second rhythm of the direct current discharging process, or thought that it was anything other than regular or predictable.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure

Instrumentation ( and experimental quality control ) do not nec. mean results are not valid... but , the control of it all must be known - for reasonable comment ( not that I myself abide by these rules...

No reason why you should be incorrect... data , please.

Maybe we need to think what the by-products of such a field would create and to try and detect those. For example, sometimes there is a flash of light when a UFO appears or disappears. Could we detect that or what spectrum would it be in? Known light wavelengths are easier to detect than developing unknown technology.

Bazart
reply to post by Ross 54

 

I have questions : Dr. White's experiments... what sort of data in other sorts of electrical fields induced ? Surely he would have been ' all over the place ' .

How does your ' voltmeter ' react in other experiments ?

Thanks, S/F.

I don't recall that Dr. White has released specific information about other induced electrical fields in his experiments. He is primarily concerned with measuring with interferometry the two halves of the divided laser beam. The ring of capacitors he uses presumably confers some inductance.
I have tried my own experiment with several different capacitors, and at different levels of charge. I find that ones of 500 microfarads seem to work much better than those with significantly less capacity. In each of the former, the same random fluctuations in the very short term discharge rate was noticed.

Bazart

Ross 54
No, I'm not kidding. I'm quite serious.
I fully realize that there may be a mundane explanation for what I am observing. I looked for possible explanations of this sort, but found none that fit the facts.

It's not clear to me that the simple instrumentality I used is, in itself, an argument against the possibility that the warp fields of extraterrestrial space vessels can be detected in this way.
The tendency seems to have been to work out how long it takes a capacitor to discharge itself entirely, or to discharge from a specific higher level to a lower one. I haven't discovered that anyone has looked into the second-by-second rhythm of the direct current discharging process, or thought that it was anything other than regular or predictable.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure

Instrumentation ( and experimental quality control ) do not nec. mean results are not valid... but , the control of it all must be known - for reasonable comment ( not that I myself abide by these rules...

No reason why you should be incorrect... data , please.

I find that 500 microfarad capacitors of 30 volts rating work the best of any I have tried so far. I charged these with a battery of 1500 millivolts nominal voltage. The battery was removed and the voltmeter attached. It was set to a range of 2000 millivolts.
The voltage of the capacitors declined at a randomly varying rate ranging from approximately 1/2 to 1 seconds per millivolt. Observing the digital readout of the voltmeter, it was obvious that it lingered longer on some voltage levels than on others.
I find no explanation for this in a preliminary survey of information about the workings of capacitors. A suggested mechanism of operation is that a warp field might distort the space inside the capacitors and so cause them to momentarily discharge more rapidly, at times.

Dr White uses a modified interferometer as his primary detection instrument. the issue would be it is too sensitive and too unwieldy to take to field use.

en.wikipedia.org...

what you would want is a field portable version of that. perhaps some type of lidar with a incredibly precise positional system and jitter compensator.

or if certain interpretations of alcubierre type warp drives is true and they emit gamma rays or x rays when the warp field collapses then you would look for gamma or x ray events that are smaller than typical cosmic sources and away from where such signals are typically found. no pulsars or quasar. instead of looking directly at stars (which might give false positives from CMEs and so forth you would look at planetary distances from likely stars and even just outside the probably limits of any planetary system. you could also look for such events around known exoplanets.

if there is a alcubierre type technology going on there should be semi regular events in the same general locations with some variables as to exact location each time. there would be places where a ship comes out of warp corresponding to some space traffic safety regulations and space lanes.

another thing to look at would be micro lensing or more probably micro micro lensing events away from known permanent micro lensing coordinates. this would be the case if the technology involved were gravity based rather than alcubbierre based warp technology.

if the tech is wormhole based you would expect some sort of unusual distortion around the perimeter of the hole. though occulting based dimming of background light sources behind the throat of the hole might be there they would likely be below any type of detectors threshold.

communications signatures from a ship in gravity drive transit would be blue shifted to gamma in front and red shifted behind such craft. such a signal would be transient but should be both detectable and readable even if encrypted an intelligent signal should be determinable. these communications would of necessity be nearly tight beamed as the signal would only be propagated as if it were in a tube or tunnel. thus such signals would only be detectable generally if the craft were travelling towards or away from the observer. making the signal hard to find.

maybe someone else could think of more ways to do it.

another signature would be cherenkov radiation in certain circumstances.

Cherenkov radiation is generated when a charged particle travels faster than phase velocity limit for the medium it is travelling through. for example that cool blue glow you see in photos of nuclear reactors when the rods are submerged in a pool of water is caused by emitted particles breaking the light barrier for light in water.


en.wikipedia.org...

lnk to wiki for detailed explanation and cool photos of that blue glowy stuff.

the last conference i am aware of that is available from online sources where Dr White presented progress reports on his experiment was last year. he presented what he thought were encouraging early results but stressed the sigma was too poor for him to positively declare he had detected a warp effect. he was at that time trying to increase sigma by switching to a more sensitive type of interferometry that colleague was helping him out with. the colleague was helping with set up and training him on its use. he said he would run more iterations of the experiment with the new interferometer and incorporate improvements to his test articles and then report once he was satisfied.

Ross 54

Bazart

Ross 54
No, I'm not kidding. I'm quite serious.
I fully realize that there may be a mundane explanation for what I am observing. I looked for possible explanations of this sort, but found none that fit the facts.

It's not clear to me that the simple instrumentality I used is, in itself, an argument against the possibility that the warp fields of extraterrestrial space vessels can be detected in this way.
The tendency seems to have been to work out how long it takes a capacitor to discharge itself entirely, or to discharge from a specific higher level to a lower one. I haven't discovered that anyone has looked into the second-by-second rhythm of the direct current discharging process, or thought that it was anything other than regular or predictable.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure

Instrumentation ( and experimental quality control ) do not nec. mean results are not valid... but , the control of it all must be known - for reasonable comment ( not that I myself abide by these rules...

No reason why you should be incorrect... data , please.

I find that 500 microfarad capacitors of 30 volts rating work the best of any I have tried so far. I charged these with a battery of 1500 millivolts nominal voltage. The battery was removed and the voltmeter attached. It was set to a range of 2000 millivolts.
The voltage of the capacitors declined at a randomly varying rate ranging from approximately 1/2 to 1 seconds per millivolt. Observing the digital readout of the voltmeter, it was obvious that it lingered longer on some voltage levels than on others.
I find no explanation for this in a preliminary survey of information about the workings of capacitors. A suggested mechanism of operation is that a warp field might distort the space inside the capacitors and so cause them to momentarily discharge more rapidly, at times.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure

How are you discharging the capacitor(s)? Are you simply attaching a DVM to it and letting the voltage fall while noting the time and voltage at some intervals? If this is what you are doing, you are bound to see all sorts of strange things, especially if the Voltmeter performs auto-ranging partway through this experiment.

Capacitors actually follow a precise charge and discharge when in a circuit with a known resistance. Are you familiar with the capacitor charge and discharge time constant formulas? If not, you may want to look here.

A capacitor will charge to 1 time constant (t) which is the time it takes to reach 66.3% of the total voltage. It can be calculated as t=R*C where R is the resistance of the circuit in series with the supply voltage and the capacitor. Generally, it has been shown that it takes 5 time constants to reach over 99% of a full charge and 5 time constants to discharge to less than 1%. Each time constant decreases the remaining voltage by 63.2% if I recall correctly. In any case this could also be what you are seeing when you put the voltmeter across the capacitor.

You really should put a resistor across the leads and measure the voltage with an actual discharge circuit, otherwise you are relying on the meter internals to provide a current path which is not ideal. Follow some schematics for charge and discharge testing and you can get this sorted out. Using a large value resistor and capacitors can give you a good extended time constant, maybe 1-2 seconds if you calculate it right. This would be plenty of time to allow the meter to stabilize after each time constant passes so that you can make a better observation of the process. If you have access to an oscilloscope, you can actually watch it right on the screen. It is totally predictable and repeatable.

I hope that helps clarify things a bit if you are new to electronics.

-EVC

reply to post by Ross 54


In order to detect such warping effects, one would need to know how they are created, and what effects they have on the surrounding physical universe. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing that, without first creating such a technology, on which to experiment, or having access to the sort of data that some believe is hidden from us by our various alleged overlords. Personally speaking, I am of the opinion that such a bit of kit as you suggest we ought to build, should be built after we as a species have actually successfully created a FTL drive, perhaps using future understanding of the Higgs Boson in order to warp space to our whims.

At THAT point we can study the actual effects on the surrounding universe, codify them, and develop detection systems for them.

TrueBrit
reply to post by Ross 54

 

In order to detect such warping effects, one would need to know how they are created, and what effects they have on the surrounding physical universe. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing that, without first creating such a technology, on which to experiment, or having access to the sort of data that some believe is hidden from us by our various alleged overlords. Personally speaking, I am of the opinion that such a bit of kit as you suggest we ought to build, should be built after we as a species have actually successfully created a FTL drive, perhaps using future understanding of the Higgs Boson in order to warp space to our whims.

At THAT point we can study the actual effects on the surrounding universe, codify them, and develop detection systems for them.

well there are only so many ways a warp drive or other FTL cheat could work according to what is known of physics. and we do know what a lot of them would be like to one degree or another. not sure what a Higgs nullification system would do as far as a signature but i am sure someone could figure it out. the one's i have already mentioned have pretty well know theoretical signatures.

evc1shop

Ross 54

Bazart

Ross 54
No, I'm not kidding. I'm quite serious.
I fully realize that there may be a mundane explanation for what I am observing. I looked for possible explanations of this sort, but found none that fit the facts.

It's not clear to me that the simple instrumentality I used is, in itself, an argument against the possibility that the warp fields of extraterrestrial space vessels can be detected in this way.
The tendency seems to have been to work out how long it takes a capacitor to discharge itself entirely, or to discharge from a specific higher level to a lower one. I haven't discovered that anyone has looked into the second-by-second rhythm of the direct current discharging process, or thought that it was anything other than regular or predictable.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure

Instrumentation ( and experimental quality control ) do not nec. mean results are not valid... but , the control of it all must be known - for reasonable comment ( not that I myself abide by these rules...

No reason why you should be incorrect... data , please.

I find that 500 microfarad capacitors of 30 volts rating work the best of any I have tried so far. I charged these with a battery of 1500 millivolts nominal voltage. The battery was removed and the voltmeter attached. It was set to a range of 2000 millivolts.
The voltage of the capacitors declined at a randomly varying rate ranging from approximately 1/2 to 1 seconds per millivolt. Observing the digital readout of the voltmeter, it was obvious that it lingered longer on some voltage levels than on others.
I find no explanation for this in a preliminary survey of information about the workings of capacitors. A suggested mechanism of operation is that a warp field might distort the space inside the capacitors and so cause them to momentarily discharge more rapidly, at times.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure

How are you discharging the capacitor(s)? Are you simply attaching a DVM to it and letting the voltage fall while noting the time and voltage at some intervals? If this is what you are doing, you are bound to see all sorts of strange things, especially if the Voltmeter performs auto-ranging partway through this experiment.

Capacitors actually follow a precise charge and discharge when in a circuit with a known resistance. Are you familiar with the capacitor charge and discharge time constant formulas? If not, you may want to look here.

A capacitor will charge to 1 time constant (t) which is the time it takes to reach 66.3% of the total voltage. It can be calculated as t=R*C where R is the resistance of the circuit in series with the supply voltage and the capacitor. Generally, it has been shown that it takes 5 time constants to reach over 99% of a full charge and 5 time constants to discharge to less than 1%. Each time constant decreases the remaining voltage by 63.2% if I recall correctly. In any case this could also be what you are seeing when you put the voltmeter across the capacitor.

You really should put a resistor across the leads and measure the voltage with an actual discharge circuit, otherwise you are relying on the meter internals to provide a current path which is not ideal. Follow some schematics for charge and discharge testing and you can get this sorted out. Using a large value resistor and capacitors can give you a good extended time constant, maybe 1-2 seconds if you calculate it right. This would be plenty of time to allow the meter to stabilize after each time constant passes so that you can make a better observation of the process. If you have access to an oscilloscope, you can actually watch it right on the screen. It is totally predictable and repeatable.

I hope that helps clarify things a bit if you are new to electronics.

-EVC

edit on 6-2-2014 by evc1shop because: spelling

The voltmeter I am using does not perform auto-ranging, so this is not an issue.
I believe that adding a resistor, parallel to the capacitor would obscure any very short term variations in its discharge rate, and so mask the sort of transient signals I am seeking, should they actually exist.
I am aware that capacitors discharge in a predictable manner, averaged over sufficiently long periods of time. It is also turns out to be the case that variability in capacitor discharge rates over shorter time scales is well known. This prevents capacitor based timer circuits, such as a 555 integrated circuit operating in astable mode, from having high accuracy.
It seem possible that this long-observed variability might be due to the presence of space warp fields, acting by the mechanism I suggested in a previous post.

reply to post by Ross 54


caps rate for dc circuits

Behavior of Capacitors in DC Circuits

The currents and voltages in a DC RC circuit depend on whether the capacitors are fully discharged, partially charged, or fully charged.
Here's an important rule of thumb that you must memorize:
A fully discharged capacitor is equivalent to a short circuit.

So to find currents and voltages in a DC RC circuit whose capacitors are fully discharged, replace all capacitors with short circuits (in other words, with wires). Then you'll be left with a circuit containing just a power supply and resistors, which you can analyze using the skills you learned earlier in this course.
Here's another important rule of thumb:
A fully charged capacitor is equivalent to an open circuit.

So to find currents and voltages in a DC RC circuit whose capacitors are fully charged, replace all capacitors with open circuits. Then you'll be left with a circuit containing just a power supply and resistors, which you can analyze using the skills you learned earlier in this course

negative dc/dc converter

The output capacitor's ESR has a direct effect on the output-voltage ripple of the dc/dc converter. Choosing higher frequency switch-mode regulators reduces the need for excessive rms ripple-current rating. Regardless, a low-ESR output capacitor, such as a ceramic, can minimize the output-voltage ripple of the negative boost converter: ΔVOUTPP=ISWMAX×ESRCOUT. Figures 1a and 1b show the high-di/dt switching paths of the negative boost and positive buck dc/dc converters. You must keep this loop as small as possible by minimizing trace lengths to minimize trace inductance. The discontinuous currents in this path create high di/dt values. Any trace inductance in this loop results in voltage spikes that can render a circuit noisy or uncontrollable. For this reason, circuit layout can be just as important as component selection. Note that the layout of a negative boost regulator differs from that of a positive buck regulator, even though they use the same IC.

Crap, I forgot where I was going with this.

reply to post by Ross 54

I am aware of the frequency drift/inaccuracy when using a capacitor in an astable circuit. I do not dispute that you are seeing something but you did ask for ideas so I will throw a few more out there for you:

What kind of capacitor are you using? Is it a standard wound foil electrolytic? If so, have you tried this with a ceramic disc? tantalum or poly cap? These all have slightly different plate configurations and may be beneficial to test if you can.

Could you be seeing something related to an inductive pickup of stray RF or the discharge circuit may have hit a sweet spot matching the Q-Value of the reactive component.

Have you tried this in a makeshift RF-Anechoic chamber to avoid picking up things like a wireless network beacon or other RF being introduced?

Are you performing the measurements in a hands-off fashion to prevent stray body capacitance from affecting the test?

Just a little more to think about in case you haven't covered it yet.