Hobby Lobby May Close All 500+ Stores in 41 States

ketsuko

buster2010

Hoosierdaddy71
This is also a man that closes his stores on Sunday so that the employees can go to church with their families. Good for him for sticking to his beliefs.

Don't you mean lack of beliefs? His religion tells him he is not allowed to use contraceptives no where in the bible does it say he is not allowed to pay for someone else's contraceptives.

If you believe that contraception is murder, then paying for it is like paying for murder. That sort of violates the whole "Thou shalt not murder" bit. I understand how hard that may be for some of you to understand, but those of us who believe that life begins before birth don't exactly like being accessories to murder.

By that regard...many Christians, especially Catholics, should have quit paying taxes YEARS ago due to the state-funded "abortion in the 96th trimester" known as the death penalty. Should people be exempt from their monies to be spent on killing?

Oh...and make sure you read the post under this one...It sums things up nicely.

So, if a Jehovah's Witness-owned business refuses to provide insurance that covers blood transfusions, that's okay too, right?

So, if a Scientologist-owned business refuses to provide insurance that covers mental health services and associated pharmaceuticals, that's okay too, right?

So, if a Christian Scientist-owned business refuses to provide insurance that covers ANY medical procedure, that's okay too, right?

So, if a Muslim-owned business refuses to provide insurance that covers Jewish employees, that's okay too, right?

Actually, wrong, on every count, and rightly so.

The US District Court ruled in October 2012 (Source) that:

"This Court rejects the proposition that requiring indirect financial support of a practice, from which plaintiff himself abstains according to his religious principles, constitutes a substantial burden on plaintiff's religious exercise."

The myriad of similar cases are generally refused by Federal courts ... because the very concept is asinine.

It is nonsensical to treat a business corporation as an actor imbued with the same rights of religious freedom as living persons. No decision of the Supreme Court has ever recognized such an absurd claim. Even Citizens United, which gave extensive protections to corporations under the Free Speech Clause, emphasized that electoral advocacy by corporations was protected, not because business corporations were capable of the human aspects of thought and expression, but to provide a robust debate for individual listeners.

(Source - Constitutional Accountability Center, 7/30/13)

It is well-established and long-standing precedent that an employer doesn't get to ignore the law based merely on an individual interpretation of religion beliefs:

In 1982, in United States v. Lee, an Amish employer refused to pay his share of Federal Insurance Contributions Act taxes on his employees, claiming that it violated his own religious belief in individual self-sufficiency. The Supreme Court said he had to pay the taxes regardless because "[w]hen followers of a particular sect enter into commercial activity as a matter of choice, the limits they accept on their own conduct as a matter of conscience and faith are not to be superimposed on the statutory schemes which are binding on others in that activity. Granting an exemption from social security taxes to an employer operates to impose the employer's religious faith on the employees." And in a 1990 opinion written by Justice Antonin Scalia, the court held that religious groups bear a heavy burden in overcoming "a valid and neutral law of general applicability."

(Source)

No employer is "paying for" the procedures or the medications or the birth control; the employer is paying for the insurance coverage.

Employers should not be able to dictate their employee's medical treatments.

I find it fascinating just how many "lovers of liberty" want to empower corporations to dominate their employee's lives more extensively.

Just a small point here. It is not happening. This would be a HOAX. And an older one.They are not closing any stores and they are not planning on closing any stores. Starting two years ago when people started spreading this Hobby Lobby began saying it was not true. They are in fact opening more and more stores. They also wish people would quit saying they are closing as it is bad for business.

“That is not going to happen. That is on the Internet with my name supposedly signed to it, but we’re not planning on shutting any stores down,” Green said.

www.iwusojourn.com...

alienreality
No the actual argument is that women who need birth control go take care of their wishes by buying their own whatever. I don't see free condoms anywhere. Are you supporting the notion that You are willing to pay for my condoms? Send me a PM and I'll give shipping info so you can send me a box.

Birth control pills are often used to treat a whole host of ailments in women besides pregnancy, so in effect, to allow this discrimination could indeed jeopardize the health of their female employees.

By the way, you do realize (I hope) that those same insurance policies do indeed cover Viagra for men, ironically which would enable men to impregnate the very same women you're denying contraceptives to. Nuts!

MrSpad
Just a small point here. It is not happening. This would be a HOAX. And an older one.They are not closing any stores and they are not planning on closing any stores. Starting two years ago when people started spreading this Hobby Lobby began saying it was not true. They are in fact opening more and more stores. They also wish people would quit saying they are closing as it is bad for business.

“That is not going to happen. That is on the Internet with my name supposedly signed to it, but we’re not planning on shutting any stores down,” Green said.

www.iwusojourn.com...

They are opening a new store near me so you may be right.

buster2010
So you are saying that a woman should become pregnant with every cycle? Birth control keeps a woman from getting pregnant so there is no killing here. It's easy to see why people are backing this guy because they have no idea what birth control really is and what it is used for. And you must really be upset with God seeing how many babies he kills every year by way of miscarriages.

Taking a pill or shot that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in the womb is killing. Obviously you're the one who has no idea what birth control does. Oh and your miscarriage argument is just plain silly.

Flatfish

alienreality
No the actual argument is that women who need birth control go take care of their wishes by buying their own whatever. I don't see free condoms anywhere. Are you supporting the notion that You are willing to pay for my condoms? Send me a PM and I'll give shipping info so you can send me a box.

Birth control pills are often used to treat a whole host of ailments in women besides pregnancy, so in effect, to allow this discrimination could indeed jeopardize the health of their female employees.


By the way, you do realize (I hope) that those same insurance policies do indeed cover Viagra for men, ironically which would enable men to impregnate the very same women you're denying contraceptives to. Nuts!

Condoms also share a multi role use including stopping diseases from spreading, because of that fact, they are as important as what you want too.

All of these things are life optional as far as what I should make my neighbor pay for through their taxes, If I need it I'll buy it, not force someone to buy it for me under threat of destroying everything I have worked for.

If insurance costs actually increase because of these birth control issues, then Hobby lobby should not have to be penalized.

If it doesn't raise their cost, then they are not making any choice to kill babies, and their argument becomes invalid in my opinion.. It is the woman who does this on her own.

MrSpad
Just a small point here. It is not happening. This would be a HOAX. And an older one.They are not closing any stores and they are not planning on closing any stores. Starting two years ago when people started spreading this Hobby Lobby began saying it was not true. They are in fact opening more and more stores. They also wish people would quit saying they are closing as it is bad for business.

“That is not going to happen. That is on the Internet with my name supposedly signed to it, but we’re not planning on shutting any stores down,” Green said.

www.iwusojourn.com...

It's kooky that way, these interwebs..."reliable" websites one day turn into pariahs overnight with one wrong story lead. I have heard this one floating around for a while now. I'm not UNconvinced on the validity of the original statement or sentiment. It would be very non Christian to throw thousands of people into unemployment by shuttering your store.
But then again, what makes sense anymore?
Remember the headline a few months ago about the woman with the brain tumor who had her employer sell his business to pay for her treatment?
He was trying to sell it before that.
If he would have offered her insurance, she would have been better off since now all she gets is a one time payout that will barely cover one operation if even that. Whereas, if she had insurance, and kept it after the business closed, her treatments (brain tumors require follow up I think, but I'm not a doctor) would have been covered and the economic burden on her family lessened.

30-50% of all pregnancies naturally abort. "Miscarriage" is a politically-correct term for natural abortion.

Same fetus, same "death." That cannot be argued.

Bone75

buster2010
So you are saying that a woman should become pregnant with every cycle? Birth control keeps a woman from getting pregnant so there is no killing here. It's easy to see why people are backing this guy because they have no idea what birth control really is and what it is used for. And you must really be upset with God seeing how many babies he kills every year by way of miscarriages.

Taking a pill or shot that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in the womb is killing. Obviously you're the one who has no idea what birth control does. Oh and your miscarriage argument is just plain silly.

Why is it silly God let the child die. You do know that for many women their period can be extremely painful right? And birth control helps to ease that pain. The pill prevents ovulation so the egg never gets fertilized not to mention it is also used to treat many ailments connected to a woman's cycle. You really need to do a little research if you think birth control only deals with a woman getting pregnant here are some things that birth control helps deal with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, Dysmenorrhea, Menorrhagia and Hirsutism.

reply to post by Bone75

Taking a pill or shot that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in the womb is killing. Obviously you're the one who has no idea what birth control does. Oh and your miscarriage argument is just plain silly.

We do all kinds of killing on a daily basis, plucking hairs, clipping toe nails, scrubbing layers of skin off.....

Creating a hostile environment, so that an egg can't implant in the uterus isn't "murder", it's the prevention of a pregnancy. No pregnancy = no abortion.

I don't even know why this is the news????? Hobby Lobby has a Supreme Court date, right???

I'm so sick of this ridiculous argument. Healthcare is a human right and should be adopted as such. There's no reason for a 1st world nation to have such a goddamn stupid issue affecting the lives of millions of Americans everyday. The very simple solution is single payer/universal... take health care out of the employers hands.

Aaaargh!

ETA: Give me my full compensation without benefits and I'll buy my own health care and pension. Man, I love some people scream at tyranny from government but are perfectly okay with their boss in control of their healthcare and pensions.

reply to post by windword


Because, siwwy Windword ...

1. We get to bash Obama again.

2. We get to bash the ACA again.

3. We get to work in the old "I don't want ma tax dollars funding X, Y or Z. Get yer guvment hands off'n my Medicare."

4. We get to pretend that biology follows strict Christian doctrine.

I'm against bombs and drones.

Can I stop paying any taxes, on anything, now, since I have no say otherwise in how the money is spent?

And don't tell me I voted for the people who voted for drones and bombs because I didn't.

Interesting that the store owner's conscience was more worried about the BC issue than about putting thousands of employees out of work who already have children to take care of. But he's a 1%'er so he'll do fine.

reply to post by MrSpad

The title may be misleading (or not), but the statement itself is not a HOAX.
From your link...

Green reaffirmed his stance on the matter in front of the ceremony’s hundreds of attendees.

“There’s one thing we will not do, and that’s paying for aborting unborn fetuses,” Green said.

“We’ve got a battle to fight, and it may take years, but we feel like in the end we will win.”

If you'll notice he didn't mention what they're going to do if they lose.

reply to post by Gryphon66


The biggest thing about the ACA was that Obama and his team of marketers tried using reason to get everyone on board, but since that has failed so much he is now using FORCE and the threat of FORCE to execute his every whim upon someone and anyone/. This says all anyone should need to know about the ACA and how everyone has something they hate about it, because it infringes the rights of others in some way.

I think it is the woman who makes the choice, not hobby lobby just because they are paying for employee insurance. To be honest, I think their argument is a bunch of Bull-sht, and they are using religion to escape from it. there are better arguments against the entire ACA than this.

windword
We do all kinds of killing on a daily basis, plucking hairs, clipping toe nails, scrubbing layers of skin off.....

I'm not about to explain the moment of conception and the difference between a toenail and a fertilized egg to you AGAIN. If you didn't get it the first 5,000 times, you never will.

And by the way, this isn't about your right to kill your fetuses, this is about whether or not your employer should have to pay for it.

Hoosierdaddy71

buster2010

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by buster2010

 

They don't give employees a bible or a prayer rug. They also don't take them away. They also give them the freedom to find employment somewhere that has an insurance policy they would like better.

Nice to see you admit you support discrimination. Is there anything else you would like forced on people? How about stoning a unruly child or making a slave of a girl that has never lain with a man. Those are in the bible why isn't this guy doing those things? Is he just another one of those pick and choose Christians?

Actually I'm an atheist that supports people's rights to their own religious beliefs. If his employee handbook mandated a prayer meeting every day I'd have a problem with that. He's not paying for the morning after pill because he feels its murder. He may choose to close his business instead of justifying what he feels is murder. His employees are free to use birth control if they wish. That's not discrimination.

But you support religious beliefs being forced on people.

Sorry but the guy has no right to say what his employees do to their own body. If every business has to get this healthcare then they should do it for their workers and not interfere with what they do medically.
My guess is the owners want out and are trying to make them look better by blaming the guberment.