Geranium Extracts inhibit HIV-1

Making medical claims about any naturally occurring substance is a good way to find yourself under the microscope (and gun) of the FDA. They bounced on Cheerios for making claims that it's good for your heart. They pulled elderberry juice from healthfood stores for claiming it was good for colds and flu. Countless other examples but anyone can look them up for themselves.
A good way around all that is to say that "such and such has historically been used for...." That way you're not making claims, just citing historical references.

The Root Extract of the Medicinal Plant Pelargonium sidoides Is a Potent HIV-1 Attachment Inhibitor

I posted the link to the abstract released by the researchers who performed the study.
After reading it several times, I am even more impressed with the results of this root extract, especially when compared to current and experimental drugs used for treatment. The most important highlights:

1) The most impressive finding is that this compound is not just an 'entry inhibitor' that can coat the cell and block infection, but it also attaches to and disables the virus, in a way not toxic to other cells, making it the first 'virucide' that is capable of attacking HIV internally;

2) There are multiple components to the compound that demonstrate the actions of viral interference, making it a good bet that the resistance profile is much better than any current 'single molecule' drug;

3) The performance / end result of the drug (ability to reduce viral replication) compares excellently with the current first-line regimen and to experimental drugs in the pipeline, and works against multiple tropisms of HIV-1;

4) Neither of these methods that the researchers identified are the same as the method the compound works on influenza viruses, indicating there is yet ANOTHER unidentified method the compound uses to fight viral infections;

5) Because the compound attacks the virus directly, and also protects T-cells from the infection, the body's own defense is no longer incapacitated when presented the virus. This may make it possible for the body's own defense to FINALLY recognize the inactivated virus and mount an effective attack (the virus itself 'blinds' the T-cells before infection so they can't get attacked, and the body typically produces antibodies only to the shedded viral envelopes, which are totally ineffective against the virus itself).

6) Meanwhile, the researchers suggest that using this compound in conjunction with current drugs will not only make them more effective, but the possibility exists that this compound may actually reduce the hidden viral reservoir as it cannot get replenished if cells don't replicate. A 'reduced' reservoir means the disease doesn't come back as quick if all drugs are stopped. IF THIS COMPOUND can do more, and penetrate to get to all the hidden virus....that is the holy grail - a cure. (I don't think it will attach to infected dormant T-cells so this may require another compound that 'wakes them up').

Now...I am questioning WHY it took THIS LONG to find a drug effective for HIV that can be made cheaply, when this drug is part of a natural treatment that is known in the same areas as the largest population of HIV infection? Could THIS explain the two 'ancedotal' stories I have gotten from friends (and a few stories I have read even on this board) that tell of people that used tribal herbal remedies and cured themselves?

Hmmm...I must even ask, if this compound is the number one cold treatment in Germany, and registered as 'medicine in New Zealand and Austrailia, then why is it not even sold in the U.S.?

Maybe I'm too hard on those that like to trash Big Pharma for their evil ways. I never expected them to act anything other than a business but at least gave them some credit. When I find things like this, I have to wonder if this was looked at and rejected as 'not profitable'.

I am keeping an eye on this, but I am not waiting for further results, I am confident that the worst case of me adding this to my regimen is a wasted two minutes a day. The best case is a cure, and the most expected result is a cheaper and healthier way to stay alive that I can make myself.

But this experiment is not just for me. It's one I'm gonna force onto the clinical trial system (and hope by default, to force recognition by the NIH) of this compound's possibilities. You ask how??? Well, I am currently a participant in two different clinical trials, and one trial is specific for finding the hidden reservoirs, and a second SMALLER trial studying the few patients in the trial system that have managed to get a viral load reading of 'less than zero' on more than one test in a 10-year pariod (there were only two in my region that made this trial - U.S. is split into 5 regions - so this one trial is VERY SMALL). The 'standard' test for viral load has a lower threshold, any reading below that threshold is declared 'undetectable'. But anyone in an NIH clinical trial who stored blood with each visit was also subjected to the 'zero assay test' that measures every single viral partical in a mL of blood as part of this trial. IF THIS COMPOUND does what the researchers are suggesting, then taking this compound will remove ANY REMAINING free viral particles from my bloodstream, my tests will suddenly go to all consecutive 'less than zero' results, and this will set off RED FLAGS to the clinical trial researchers!

If the compound does have potential, I want to prove it, and at the same time make sure that information does NOT get buried for the sake of profits.

If I do prove it, and it still gets buried...first I will apologize to beckybecky and she can add 40 million HIV deaths to the Big Pharma scoreboard, then I will climb aboard the anti-Big Pharma train with her (although, I also have to wonder...why hasn't any natural medicine providers or proponents of herbal healing found this result??? They should be the first trumpeting this new discovery!).

(I couldn't sleep last night just trying to remember everyone that told me a story of someone getting cured of this from a tribal herbal healer, and remembered discounting every one of those stories...just to now wonder if MAYBE...they were TRUE).

After 13 years of wondering, with no major risk factors, WHY ME???, maybe I have found the task that the higher power has chosen for me? Maybe this is what I am supposed to do....

GetHyped
reply to post by angelchemuel

 

What exactly are you disputing here? That drugs can be manufactured from plants? That the process can be refined by extracting the active ingredient alone from plants? That this refining process can tightly control the strength and dosage of the active ingredient? That a lot of common medicine is actually derived from natural sources?

edit on 2-2-2014 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)

The introduction of the abstract (just posted above) answers this question in a very good way, but the short of it is, most drugs derived from natural remedies are 'single-molecule' drugs because it is too difficult to study the interactions of several chemicals at once. However it is recognized by these researchers that there are multiple compounds working together to achieve this effect, so the process of extraction / isolation of a 'single drug' would (in this case) most likely reduce or even eliminate the effectiveness of the extract.

I don't think Jane disputed anything you said, but what you DID say was a 'simplification' that does NOT take into account the fact that this plant' s chemistry and mode of action is not linked to a single compound, but is a more complex action that will not be duplicated by extraction of a single compound.

I hope that helps.

reply to post by lakesidepark

After 13 years of wondering, with no major risk factors, WHY ME???, maybe I have found the task that the higher power has chosen for me? Maybe this is what I am supposed to do....

Maybe it is.

I am excited for your discovery. Please keep us posted.

If you ever need any advice on creating extracts and tinctures let me know.

reply to post by lakesidepark


Perhaps it's a legal thing that Geranium extract isn't treated the same universally. Worth a try for getting rid of colds and flu though, at least.

hprc-online.org...

www.geraniumextract.net...

Some Questions And Facts About Geranium Extract

While the wild geranium is a pretty little flower, and is in itself not controversial, geranium extract, taken from the root of this flower is, and this extract has caused some problems, both medical and legal. Geranium extract is an herbal supplement that seems to warrant a bit of research before adding it to the list of supplements one feels could be of some benefit.

There are indeed some benefits to be gained from this supplement, and there are also some side effects that might be experienced. Some sources will tell you such side effects are rare to non-existent, others will tell you that, because of its possible side effects, the supplement should be banned. The problem lies in several areas.

Problem Areas

First of all, as is the case with most herbal supplements, geranium extract has never been particularly well regulated, and there are few if any standards that apply to its production or marketing. Second, the supplement may prove beneficial, or at least not prove to be harmful when taken in low concentrations or dosages, but it could be quite harmful when taken in high concentrations or dosages. There appears to be precious little information as to what constitutes a safe dosage, or what underlying conditions could make a seemingly safe dosage unsafe. Those who manufacture the extract usually define what a dose is if the product is in liquid form, or what the strength of a tablet is. That may be sufficient, but still, there is no overall standard.

Finally there are the stories, true or false, that seem to accompany many herbal supplements, telling how the herb has been used for medicinal purposes since time immemorial, without any major problems being reported. There is usually some truth to these stories, but there are often some half-truths as well, together with an occasional fabrication or an outright lie.


The Dimethylamylamine Issue

The controversy surrounding this extract has to do with a chemical it purportedly contains. This chemical is a very powerful compound that goes by the name Dimethylamylamine, or DMAA. There is some question however as to whether or not this compound is actually present in the roots of the wild geranium. Some claim it is, and is therefore a natural product, while others claim DMAA is produced synthetically, and added to the extract during production of the supplement. DMAA is said to promote improved athletic performance. It is also said to accelerate weight loss, and to enhance mental clarity, while at the same time helping the immune system regulate hormone production. All of these various claims may be true, somewhat true, or not true at all.


A Doping Controversy May Be Unfolding

The controversy revolves around a word we hear more and more about these days. That word is doping. Dimethylamylamine is indeed a powerful compound, and it does indeed promote improved athletic performance, to the extent that the compound is banned in Canada. It is also an ingredient in a “party pill” that, when taken with coffee, or another substance rich in caffeine, can price a high which is characterized by various psychoactive effects.

The Federal Drug Administration has joined the party by warning a number of companies that produce pills, tablets, or supplements containing geranium oil, geranium extract, and/or DMAA, that they need to do a better job of producing evidence relative to the safety of their products. The FDA has taken a position that, if DMAA is one of the chemicals found in the wild geranium plant, the concentration would likely be too low to be considered to be a problem. On the other hand, if the DMAA is highly concentrated, or if it is produced synthetically, and then added to the product, which it apparently is in some instances, there is a genuine problem that needs to be worked.


Favored By Many Bodybuilders

Bodybuilders are noted for using various tonics and supplements to help build their muscles, strength, and stamina. There are a good many who use tonics containing DMAA, and find those tonics helpful in reaching certain bodybuilding goals. Presumably, the manufacturers of the products these bodybuilders use have spend the necessary time in determining what the recommended dosages should be, since there seem to have been few instances where problems have occurred, or have been reported.

Where Do We Go From Here?

As far as competitive sports is concerned, there are many who feel that DMAA falls into the category of a performance enhancing drug. Whereas the term may not be particularly scary as far as the amateur bodybuilder is concerned, it could be of great interest and possible concern to the competitive or professional athlete. It can be difficult to stop taking something that enables you to perform at your peak. If past history is any indication, we could be witnessing a long battle. It might be interesting to see where the boundary lines will eventually be drawn between taking natural geranium extract supplements, which may be beneficial and do not seem to be particularly harmful, and taking extracts or supplements where the concentration of DMAA has either been significantly increased by concentration, or synthetic DMAA has been added.

Before there is any confusion, there are several varieties of flowers referred to as 'geranium'. All are of the same 'genus' (Geraniaceae), and there are two 'sub-genus' known as 'geranium' and 'pelagorium'

The following link gives a general description:
What is the difference between a Geranium and a Pelargonium?

The particular plant that we are discussing here is 'Pelagonium Sidoides' but the common name is 'South African Geranium'.

It seems most of the varieties of geranium AND pelagonium have some medical properties, but not all are the same. So this is specific to this one species (at this time).

Specific...until or if it is found that these same properties exist in the other varieties (and it may well exist in the different pelagonium varieties as they seem to have similiar properties).

If anyone has any ancedotal stories about friends or relatives that have reported that they have treated themselves with a herbal extract, please post the tale. I used to ignore them. Now I intend to investigate them and find out for myself as my opinion on these stories has changed dramatically since finding this new information.

Just to complete the posting of information, this abstract has already made it into the U.S. National Library of Medicine / U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH).

Link below:
The Root Extract of the Medicinal Plant Pelargonium sidoides Is a Potent HIV-1 Attachment Inhibitor

This study made to the NIH library two days before the public release. Yet, I have seen NOTHING in any MSM outlet. I would think a natural treatment with a novel mechanism of action, and effectiveness equal to or greater than the standard for first-line treatment (Sustiva / part of combo drug Atripla) would be big news as a way to help people and reduce medical expense to the system.

Alas, I'm beginning to suspect what many here already believe - in this case, Merck / Gilead / Pfizer / Glaxo Smith-Kline may be using their influence to keep silent a discovery that could endanger the cash cow Atripla, the most profitable pharmaceutical in the history of the world (they already secured their patent until 2019 simply by pushing Sustiva into the combo Atripla therefore qualifying as a 'new' compound).

While researching this, I found ANOTHER recent abstract dealing with an alternative medicine and HIV, but THIS one was a single patient under the care of physicians at a university in Nigeria. The abstract was posted in the NIH library in August of last year. And not a PEEP. If this involved a risky procedure costing thousands of dollars (Berlin patient) it would have been headline news. This abstract discusses the power of 'Nigella Sativa' (black seed) to invoke sero-reversion (total remission and possible cure) sustained for over 24 months to this date, after six months ot treatment with only 10ml / twice a day of black seed extract. The patient now lives with normal counts, the tests come back totally negative, and the patient is taking no drugs whatsoever to maintain the negative status and normal health. That is more than a measurement in a test tube - this patient was going down with his stats, extremely poor status, probably had another year or two (if lucky) without treatment. Now it appears he is cured (or at least functionally cured - controlled naturally by his own body), as there is NO remission of this virus, it fights the entire time it is present in the body.

Link below:
Nigella sativa concoction induced sustained seroreversion in HIV patient

I have had a huge problem with some posters here that make general attacks against 'Big Pharma' using ancedotal evidence and in some cases, distorted figures. When their case is argued like that, it makes people that are capable of seeing hyperbole and assumptions and generalities turn away. Many of those same people have argued that this disease is fabricated to make money, and that argument not only turns me away, but ANGERS me...mainly because I know what is real, and the disease is REAL, and that fact is proven to me beyond any POSSIBLE doubt.

The AIDS denialists jump on this same bandwagon with the alternative medicine folks, and this discredits them further. When I see the denialists tell people to quit the drugs without giving any viable options, I get mad, because I know what it feels like to be marching toward death, and I know what stopped it, and I fear others believing the denialists and leaving this Earth. The fact is, Big Pharma HAS made drugs that have kept people alive, and to deny that, or to deny the existence of a disease that is obvious to those who carry it, discredits the entire movement.

HOWEVER - saying that - I must now acknowledge what I also see as supression of information that could help millions all over the world get cheaper, safer treatment, and a possible cure, for the purpose of protecting profits.

But I don't say that using generalities - I present two examples, PEER-REVIEWED research, and documented in the NIH library, that deserve the most press possible, that get no significant press whatsoever.

Myself and those arguing for the alternative medicine approach need to find a middle ground - and I'm suspecting that 'middle' ground is much closer to them than it is to the pharmaceutical industries.

Meanwhile I head back down the rabbit hole. There may be more to find, now that I have woken up and learned to look for it. If I have already found it, and either of these work, then give me another six to eight months, and I will take the single unique opportunity I have, and use my own blood (and vital signs), to try to shake some awareness of the alternatives into the top of the clinical trials system. When I do, the news will come out from an authority already widely recognized in the MSM, an authority I have met personally multiple times, and will again.

That is now my mission in life, I must succeed in finding this and making it known to the public, so others can live better than I have.

Drug companies looting SA's bounty of medicinal plants

It appears that Big Pharma has already gotten their hands into this trying to secure the patents and strip them away from the traditional herbal healers. Harvesting of the plant was made illegal, and fears that it was being stripped to extinction...and this war has been going on for years. The fight continues to protect the rights of the locals against the power of the pharmaceutical industry.

Am I now arguing against Big Pharma???? OMG!!!

I keep digging....

reply to post by lakesidepark

Am I now arguing against Big Pharma???? OMG!!!

Seems that way to me.

I know from personal experience that Western medicine is mostly guided by what Big Pharma can conjure up for what ever ails us. I was shocked to discover that I understood more about nutrition than the physicians that I would meet. For me I just don't trust the medical establishment. Trauma care is, in my opinion the only thing that they do well.

I have spent the last 20 years learning of nutrition, prevention and all that mother nature provides as far as cures. I always stress a raw diet, juicing being very important as it is nutrient dense, and In my opinion most of the illnesses we see today come from living in a toxic environment and not getting what our bodies need to heal through nutrition.

There is a documentary called Food Matters, if you have not seen it, you should, certainly given where you are in your discoveries.

I remember a while back they discovered that red seaweed kills the HIV virus/ herps etc Geranium and red seaweed combo could perhaps help those with hiv hugely

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

LUXUS
I remember a while back they discovered that red seaweed kills the HIV virus/ herps etc Geranium and red seaweed combo could perhaps help those with hiv hugely

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

edit on 13-2-2014 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

Another good example; but if you read the abstract, you also see a lot of the problem there is in promoting these alternitives in the U.S. or any developed country. One notable quotation:

Drug development is driven nearly exclusively by financial backing of pharmaceutical industry interests; the corollary is that a food that can be purchased in a grocery store has no patentable possibilities.

That is shameful. The researchers only found one doctor that was even interested in suggesting this to patients, and when that doc left the practice, some of the trial subjects left too. THey found great resistance in the medical community to even consider alternatives, even in an NIH clinical trial setting!

For those in the U.S. stuck on an ADAP waiting list, or who want to treat but have yet to get far enough down to qualify (less than 350 cells / ml), all of the above are good options, and demonstrate great potential to keep patients off the drugs.

Thanks for your addition to my thread, that NIH study is just another example of therapies that will never see the light of day unless someone forces their hands. But to force their hands, the evidence has to be pushed right in front of the people that have the most to gain by becoming a hero to the world, with the prestige, the power, and the media exposure to get this information out everywhere. And the person that does this has to be in a position to demonstrate it at the highest level of the clinical trials system. To say any more will reveal too much.....

reply to post by Witness2008


Thanks for the input. Nutrition from natural sources does include the natural defenses that have evolved for millions of years, an evolution that allows life to florish in environments rich with viruses, bacteria, and microbes hell-bent on destroying it. and plants by their very nature have to fight this battle chemically, as there is no adaptive immune system present as in most of the animal kingdom.

(did I just say that??? if I keep talking like this, Big Pharma is gonna take away my porsche and all of my swimming pools...)

reply to post by lakesidepark


In modern times people have to be their own doctors in some cases. Raw honey was also found to be useful to boost immune system of those with hiv so I guess a good option would be to grind half red seaweed with half geranium leaf in a Coffey grinder then add the powder into a jar of raw honey, alternately get a capsule machine and put the powder into capsules to take directly.

I was using a workout/ weight loss supplement that had a geranium oil extract but it was banned here in Australia so i got to thinking that this geranium stuff must be bad? I still have half a bottle that i stopped taking because i thought that stuff must be harmfull? So this is very interesting news to me! Because it was really great stuff S&F

reply to post by Shana91aus


Maybe it was the other ingredients? Here in Europe geranium syrup is used for colds and flus even for children.

reply to post by LUXUS


A poster above (theabsolutetruth) covered this very aspect of a possible performance-enhancng drug (DMAA) being present in the extract. That post is several posts above on this same page.

Did Austrailia ban that particular supplement, or all geranium oil supplements?

reply to post by lakesidepark


It was all geranium oil extract products that were banned here all that were 1-3-Dimethylamylamine (DMAA)/ aka Geranium Extract / aka Dimethylpentylamine (DMPA) / aka Methylhexanamine or anything that states Geranium.

Apparently there was links to deaths but thats just something i read at the time it was back in 2012 i will have to find the source for that info. It was rather disappointing though because i had the most amazing workouts and all round better wellbeing with it but after it being banned i figured i should stop taking something i dont really know much about & could be potentionally harmfull.

reply to post by LUXUS


Certainly wasnt the other ingredients all it really had was caffeine also and it wasnt a huge dose or anything i have used caffeine tablets many times and it honestly doesnt do much for me. Plus the ban was placed on that one ingredient. Its still for sale in the US so i assume its legal there then!

I can see why it would work in cold & flu syrups its probably because of the feeling it gives off kind of like a high and its similar to when you take cold & flu tablets containing pseudoephedrine, alot stronger though & it dries you out if your fluey,I have a list of the ingredients there is 3 others- caffeine, naringin & Coleus Forskohlii so maybe it could have been them ingredients that caused it but why was the main one banned then?

reply to post by Shana91aus


I just did a search, you can buy geranium flue syrup/tablets in aus so it must have been the other ingredients


www.priceline.com.au...