20 Million Felons, 47 Million on SNAP, 13 Million on Welfare, 15 Million Unemployed

ThichHeaded
We have about 317 million people in the US..
There are 144 mil taxpayers..

They say 92 million aren't working... which is why I say 37% is to high..

67% of the population is working age (16-64), that's 212.39 million working people. With 144 million taxpayers that's 67.8% that work or 32.2% that don't. Not taken into account here are single income families. With some more specific rules like excluding full time students or people married in a single income family you could increase this.

Sovaka
Oh I am not liking the outlook for you American's...

There's several things working against the system, for example no politician can actually run on a campaign of reducing penalties on felons or creating a program to get these people back to work once they're out of jail. It's seen as being soft on crime, our population is very petty and vindictive... they truly see lifetime punishments as something you should give out for stealing a bike. We're getting the will of the people here, and it's not a pretty thing. Because it's the will of the people, no law maker can actually go about fixing it, any intelligent person realizes we have a real problem with sentencing, felony charges, and jails but if you try to change it you're seen as helping the criminals by making their lives easier.

The problem is most people have been dumbed down to not realize what a ridiculous system this actually creates. Instead they want things to be even harsher, look at all the people who support programs like what Joe Arpaio does... he runs a prison that's one step removed from a North Korean labor camp, and people want more of that, it's utterly ridiculous. I promise you if the constitution were written today we would not have that line in there about cruel and unusual punishment because that's precisely what the people want.

Then throw in some of the ridiculous crimes that have been raised to felony level and everything just falls apart.

onequestion
We have a really bad understanding of the the word felon means in America. Obviously we dont have 20 million people who truly deserve it. The people that deserve it are the lifers who are in and out of jail all the time not people like me who make mistakes and learn from them.

I have a big problem with a lot of the things that are felonies, I probably shouldn't write this (and I certainly won't give specifics) but some of the technology laws that qualify as being a felony are mind boggling. I commit one per day out of principal. The best way to protest a law is to break it.

calstorm
Some got there through hard work, others like to think they got there through hard work, but they really don't understand the meaning of hard work.

People tend to overestimate their own ability as correlating to success. Relative success comes pretty equally to all demographics which means it's effecting everyone equally. 2/3 of the population are average to below average in ability, yet more than 1/3 of people succeed. This means success isn't tied to ability but rather outside factors. I don't want to go back to the work comparisons but I will say this, I work 12 hours/day 7 days/week and can't really work beyond that due to a medication that makes me sleep for 10-11/day, during my most productive hours I make minimum wage but for most of the time I make far less than that. I came to the realization long ago that I will never own a home, be able to afford to raise a family, or even take a vacation, I can't even afford an apartment that has hot water, that's simply the way life is. If you go by what the tests say I'm pretty intelligent and I hold 4 college degrees so I'm not unskilled, I don't have the connections however to actually get a job where I'm earning something.

And the thing is... I'm not even sure it matters. If I were to somehow go on to bigger and better things, someone else will simply take my place here, just as I did from the person who was here before me, they'll work a slave wage for a college, live in a run down apartment, and the cycle continues never being addressed.

Back to the ability topic though, one thing I cannot stand about business owners are the people that are convinced they built their business, when in reality they did nothing of the sort. Everyone jumps on Obama's "you didn't build that line" but the truth is, the man was right... they didn't build that. Their customers did. Their customers sought the business out, gave it their money, and in many cases came back. Businesses are built by their customers... without those the whole thing falls apart.

onequestion
Due to policy changes in Washington? I agree to an extent and yes bad policy encourages a bad economy because the less room we have to move around and create our own incomes and the more we have to spend for a small startup the harder it is to get off the bottom. There are many policies encouraging this type of growth decline in the economic sector that many of you are aware of like NAFTA.

I've given my thoughts on the economy before which you posted on, I have no clue if you agreed or not but it doesn't really matter. There's one primary problem with our economy and it always comes back to the same thing: Planned Obsolescence. In capitalism this is encouraged as it creates repeat purchases which creates an increase in the amount of work that needs to be done, which cycles back into giving everyone a job. With the advent of robotics, and more importantly microchips however, we're able to do more with less people and do it faster. This creates a system where 100% of our needs are met without requiring input from 100% of the population which leads to jobs for some people simply not existing. That's not something our economic system is equipped to handle. The problem cannot get better until we address this. In the short term we may be able to boost businesses and create more needs (wants) from the bottom third of income earners and keep the illusion going a little bit longer, but there is a predetermined point at which further improvement is impossible.

Dianec
I know the OP did a post awhile back on things still being fairly even with income/expenses (ratio wise) - what the stats said. I didn't agree with those stats then and I don't now. When the minimum wage was 3.35 an hour (i was a kid but able to work), I recall a gallon of milk being .99 (where I was living). I could buy a candy bar for .35 and gas was about a dollar a gallon. That was 1981.

Just for fun since I already had the numbers from previous posts I decided to rework them as hours of work to afford something all times are measured in minimum wage measuring the same goods (same/similar house, same grocery list, same university).

1956
House - 7,000 hours
1 month groceries - 16 hours
4 year degree - 3,340 hours
1 month health insurance - 8 hours

1967
House - 5,857 hours
1 month groceries - 12.5 hours
4 year degree - 5,342 hours
1 month health insurance - 4 hours

2010
House - 16,107 hours
1 month groceries - 33.5 hours
4 year degree - 21,752.5 hours
1 month health insurance - 55.5 hours

Something clearly went very very wrong.

irishchic
I use that word "lazy"loosely, I know some cannot do physical work but damn...find a niche, figure it out, and get out there and see what you can do!

Not that much has really "changed in that respect,sorry.I don't buy the "lack of opportunity..."

Lets perform a little experiment. How about you hire me? My skills are in programming and web design and I also happen to know a bit about server administration, 3d modeling, video editing, photoshop, and game design. Of course I can also perform routine computer tasks like using a database, writing queries, or creating spreadsheets too. I live in Ohio so you would have to be fine with me working remotely.

Can you provide opportunity or are you another one of the many that says work is out there but conveniently says it's not with them?

I've given my thoughts on the economy before which you posted on, I have no clue if you agreed or not but it doesn't really matter. There's one primary problem with our economy and it always comes back to the same thing: Planned Obsolescence. In capitalism this is encouraged as it creates repeat purchases which creates an increase in the amount of work that needs to be done, which cycles back into giving everyone a job. With the advent of robotics, and more importantly microchips however, we're able to do more with less people and do it faster. This creates a system where 100% of our needs are met without requiring input from 100% of the population which leads to jobs for some people simply not existing. That's not something our economic system is equipped to handle. The problem cannot get better until we address this. In the short term we may be able to boost businesses and create more needs (wants) from the bottom third of income earners and keep the illusion going a little bit longer, but there is a predetermined point at which further improvement is impossible.

reply to post by Aazadan


Yes this is a big point i forgot to bring up. The capitalist refuse to address this issue.

reply to post by Aazadan

Can you provide opportunity or are you another one of the many that says work is out there but conveniently says it's not with them?

Damn you really sold me with that. Thats an interesting analysis where did you source those numbers from?

reply to post by Aazadan


I truly wish I had connected with you a couple of years ago...

I DID hire someone to build a pretty involved website, design a brand/trademark,manage a database, update a popular blog with content I provided,etc.

Paid a young fortune upfront: her work was cool,chic,and what I had hoped for. Great résumé,lots of satisfied clients.

She was long-distance in Seattle...marriage soured and voila...she fell off the face of the earth,impossible to connect with.Impossible.

Two days before I was involved in a huge bridal event I had paid hundreds for a spot at she leaving me hanging for over 3k in printed materials...I was totally screwed.She took the money and ran,my website went "dark."

Needless to say,it was a mess. What I learned it that it's sad people's work ethics crumble when their lives do but it seems to happen a lot.

I would have been grateful several times in recent years to be able to find someone who did work well and responsibly.

I quit my business at a substantial loss to me and chose to retire...I think I mean it this time.

reply to post by onequestion

You guys really think people not wanting to work hard is the problem with our economy?

If you're talking to me, NO, I DON'T THINK THAT.

I think you've, perhaps, failed to read the posts carefully.

Did I not talk about doing hard labor? About offering to do it?

Yes. I did.

As a law enforcement officer of 13 years, I have put my share of felons in jail or prison. And for the most part, I am satisfied with my arrests. But dealing with the criminal element has jaded me on several levels. I rarely see somone wanting to be re educated on their crimes but instead see people just wanting a free pass, manipulating the system for their own benefit. Recidivism is rampant with most criminals. They are full of excuses for their special crime but VERY RARELY do I see remorse for their acts. Only when all cards have been played and there is no other alternative but to beg for forgiveness do I see any remorse. One problem is that the court system is set up as a money making machine. In most counties I know, the courthouse is the biggest business in town. Why punish someone by a long jail term when we can fine them, release them, re catch them and fine them again. A terrible circle that is.

onequestion
Damn you really sold me with that. Thats an interesting analysis where did you source those numbers from?

Food prices: www.thepeoplehistory.com... I normalized them to 1956 since they were from the entire decade. There's similar numbers for the 60's. I used another site too for some other goods. The grocery list in question for each point was:
6 pounds cheese
6 pounds turkey
6 loaves of bread
2 jar peanut butter
2 jar jelly
16 cans of soup
24 eggs
12 cans pork & beans
12 frozen chicken pie
10 pounds potatoes
2 box of crackers
2 pound pork roast
2 pound frozen vegetables

www.thepeoplehistory.com... That's the 1950 home price, I used the Pennsylvania home because the college I picked is UPenn the description being
1952 Pottstown Pennsylvania
Semi Detached Brick Home 5 rooms bath and garage and large lot
$7,000

The 1967 home was
1967 Monessen Pennsylvania
6 large rooms Good Neighbourhood with local schools and church near by
$8,200

Tuition is from www.archives.upenn.edu...

The years 1956 and 1967 were picked because those were the years where minimum wage went up so it would have had the maximum buying power.

Health insurance costs come from newspaper advertisements, I can't easily find them right now because I didn't copy the links down when I originally put these numbers together. It was also a mess to find because most hits result in a company trying to sell you insurance now rather than giving historical rates.

Boog911
As a law enforcement officer of 13 years, I have put my share of felons in jail or prison. And for the most part, I am satisfied with my arrests. But dealing with the criminal element has jaded me on several levels. I rarely see somone wanting to be re educated on their crimes but instead see people just wanting a free pass, manipulating the system for their own benefit. Recidivism is rampant with most criminals. They are full of excuses for their special crime but VERY RARELY do I see remorse for their acts. Only when all cards have been played and there is no other alternative but to beg for forgiveness do I see any remorse. One problem is that the court system is set up as a money making machine. In most counties I know, the courthouse is the biggest business in town. Why punish someone by a long jail term when we can fine them, release them, re catch them and fine them again. A terrible circle that is.

People will goto great lengths to justify their behavior, even when committing a truly terrible act the people doing it rarely actually see it as wrong. After time and reflection sometimes they do but you have to overcome that initial justification which is why they committed the crime in the first place. Have you ever looked into the Stanford Prison Experiment? Society right now is the guards and the prisoners well... that's obvious.

reply to post by onequestion

I would rather take a chance at helping 1 person who actually needs and utilizes government aid while supporting 20 idiots then take a chance at supporting our government and enabling them to do nothing and affectively kill our education system, our economy, and destroy our republic.

then why don't you donate to charity?

why must you force me to make the same foolish decision? i do not care to cater to the 20 idiots.

reply to post by onequestion


Totally agree about the FACT that few people now advance by merit. Its all who you know, and who lkes you. The only way to advance through hard work is if you are self employed. Nowadays companies have NO loyalty to their employeees, and if you can be replaced by someone younger and cheaper, you will, no matter how long you have been at your job or how loyal you have been to your employer. They expect 100 percent loyalty, and they give zero percent. Also agree that if you are young, make a mistake and do not repeat offend, it serves no purpose to make people carry a life long stigma for it. Unfortunately, the whole system is set up to give people of privilege an advantage over the working class. The elites in this country have never fallen out of love with slavery, or the plantation mentality. They view the less fortunate as sub human resouces to be manipulated, used and finally, discarded. This is why they are against the social safety net and consistantly affront education. In a lot of 1st world countries, college is free. Here, it is close approaching the point where only the children of the wealthy can afford to go. Yes, some working class kids go, but they do so by saddling themselves with lifelong debt. This is a great injustice. It is not wrong to want to create an atmosphere that gives EVERYONE a chance to make it, not just rich kids. Of course the wealthy like things the way they are, it helps to preserve the ruling class, and their hold on power. If suddenly you had a lot of college grads on the same playing field as their kids, that might change, and of course they dont want that. An educated populace is at odds with their agenda. They also like the labor market loose to keep the populace fearful, desperate, and more controllable.Improving conditions for the 99 percent hurts that effort. Really, the only thing they want from the 99 percent is to shut up, do the crappier and crappier jobs, and consume to some degree. Otherwise they dont want to hear from us. They want, as George Carlin once said "obedient workers". Nothing more.

reply to post by onequestion


You are absolutely correct. The "hard work" propaganda is a bunch of crap since the 1980's. It seems "follow the money" only applies when it involves the poor. Who has all the money and access to every good economic ladder? Not the poor or "hard worker".

Policies matter and tearing the unions apart left the loner with no money or family in a nowhere place to go.

reply to post by MOMof3


People fail to understand that their perspective narrow and limited to their own experience only. They lack the ability to look at someone else situation objectively and empathize with their situation. If they could do this more it would create a situation where people could see where people are making mistakes and where they limited from a opportunity/ funding/ situational perspective and really jump in and start helping make better communities.

Were as strong as our weekest link here people and your selfish desires and perspective aren't helping.

Pearls before swine.

reply to post by onequestion


Tried to star this post, not working for me.

I agree with this in theory absolutely! I believe in "apprenticeships" and in people learning from someone else who has viable skill.

I know of one young man (married to the daughter of a friend) who has a "felony" in his past, young and dumb and paid for it.

He is learning gunsmithing under the watchful eye of a master and is THRIVING as a person and a husband/new Dad! The older guy teaching him couldn't operate some of his extensive collection of tools anymore and is paying him to help and learn.This kid is thrilled to learn and excited about his future with his new found skills.

I also know of another situation where an older man, a very respected carpenter/craftsman took a young guy "under his wing" in a similar situation and ended up left for dead after he beat him and stole most of his tools and everything of value he had.

I seee both instances as a commentary on society as a collective "whole": there are those who WOULD help and it succeeds and those who WOULD help and suffer consequences.

Not sure which is more common anymore.

reply to post by irishchic


The negetive is more common.

The problem is we need to address our culture first before we start addressing politics. If we address our cultural issues then politics and economy will auto correct.

Our problems began when blue collar jobs were moved out of the country.

reply to post by onequestion

Felons are ineligible for SNAP apparently so the 47 million on food stamps don't include the 20 million felons.

Just wanted to mention, I received SNAP benefits and I am a felon. The conviction had nothing to do with violence or drugs, but a few periods of my life after prison I signed up successfully.

onequestion


Until we create conditions for economic prosperity do you think we want 50 million hungry jobless americans running around?

I work a day job, that pays very very well. I worked my way up into this position.

I also started another company last year. We are already in the black and are have sold the same amount in just the first month, as we did for 6 months last year.
We sell in an industry that is kind of a "Want" rather then a "Need".

There is prosperity all around. It all comes down to how bad to you want it, and will you work for it.

reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly


Ahhhhhh what???

rupertg
If you have no regard for the welfare of your fellow Americans, you weren't raised right. "Objectivism" is un-American.

Yeah, except it is not the business of the Govt to force that onto people.

macman

onequestion


Until we create conditions for economic prosperity do you think we want 50 million hungry jobless americans running around?

I work a day job, that pays very very well. I worked my way up into this position.

I also started another company last year. We are already in the black and are have sold the same amount in just the first month, as we did for 6 months last year.
We sell in an industry that is kind of a "Want" rather then a "Need".

There is prosperity all around. It all comes down to how bad to you want it, and will you work for it.

a couple of questions...
1...did you grow up in a loving 2 parent family?
2...did you live in a neighborhood that WASN'T "ghetto-like" in it's poverty and crime?
3...did you attend schools that were mostly safe, had good teachers, and had parent participation?
4...did you have others, outside your parents, that helped you, and were kind to you, in your early life?