China's Jade Rabbit Rover May Be Doomed On The Moon

reply to post by jonnywhite

But we landed on the moon 44 years ago and didn't experience this problem?

The U.S Lunar Surveyor missions did , Surveyor 2 was lost and Surveyor 3 and 4 both had problems on the Moon.
This was China's first shot with a lander and to all intents and purposes it was a success.

TrueBrit
reply to post by w810i

 

Ah.

Well, that is a little unfortunate eh? I wonder, if the cold of the lunar night is responsible for the failure, would it be worth the people running this mission, to attempt to re-awaken the machine when the sun comes up there?

The vast temperature difference between day and night on the moon make it a more hostile place for machinery than Mars. This is common knowledge among people who are deep into space stuff but not so much to the general public.

Mars is like an oasis compared to the moon, even with its dust storms the fact that we have a rover that was designed only to last 3 months (Opportunity) which has lasted 10 years on Mars while neither the Soviet Lunakhod or China's Jade Rabbit survived more than a year on the moon speaks volumes about how hostile the lunar environment is.

maybe the Aliens that live there possibly have disabled it.

TheBlackTiger
I'll buy clothes made in China, but when it comes to my lunar rovers, I buy American.

Id rather buy russian thank you.

reply to post by gortex


You're right, but China has had 44+ years to watch us and learn. NASA did this when we knew next to nothing about the moon. China is doing it when we know a lot.

Why would they repeat the same mistakes, necessarily?

Are you saying they're completely excluded from anything NASA has learned?

Some possible explanations (maybe all of them or some of them):
1) Landing on the moon is hard, no matter how much you know
2) We knew more about the moon and space travel back in those days than I am implying
3) China's space program is not as good or as well funded as it should be
4) China really does not know much because NASA protects much of its information

Note I'm playing the devils advocate. I don't seriously believe China is roaming on the moon right now after faking a mission-ending problem.

And I'd like to mention how the US was a superpower and still is. The US put a lot of money into its space program. I think I read Apollo spent 5 times more than the Soviets. Militarily we've spent vastly more money than other nations. I think if you consider our vast financial resources over the past 50 years it can explain some of this. I might be taking it for granted, not appreciating its impact.

It's not a stretch to suggest our success in the past was attributable somewhat to wealth. Others may say it was american spirit or capitalism.

In other words, maybe China just hasn't had the money to make sense of all this information. With more money and time they will accomplish more.

NASA spending:
en.wikipedia.org - Budget of NASA...

China spending:
www.globalsecurity.org - China->Space->Budget Expenditures...

reply to post by jonnywhite

Why would they repeat the same mistakes, necessarily?
Are you saying they're completely excluded from anything NASA has learned?

No doubt they have studied the NASA missions and may even of gained data from them but they are new to space exploration and the Moon is a harsh environment regardless of knowledge, I don't think they repeated past mistakes but were subjected to similar problems caused by the environment , dust , Solar radiation and temperature can all take their toll on the systems of the rover.

I think the mission was a success and look forward to a Chinese mission to Mars , we need more players in space exploration to move us forward and spur Europe and America to bigger and better things , perhaps the next western mission to Mars will go with the intention of looking for signs of life rather than just an environment that could once of supported it before China get there and steal the glory

reply to post by gortex


Look here:
en.wikipedia.org - Chinese_space_program

..............
Due to security concerns, all researchers from the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) are prohibited from working with Chinese citizens affiliated with a Chinese state enterprise or entity.[17] In April 2011, the 112th United States Congress banned NASA from using its funds to host Chinese visitors at NASA facilities.[18] In March 2013, the U.S. Congress passed legislation barring Chinese nationals from entering NASA facilities without a waiver from NASA.
..............

Their version of NASA:
en.wikipedia.org - China National Space Administration...

China finds that the moon is a harsh mistress.

Would be nice if they would put a few of these rovers on sale at Walmart so we could get a look under the hood.

reply to post by jonnywhite


When I said "may even of gained data from them" I was thinking more of this ....
NASA says it was hacked 13 times last year

He said the agency discovered in November that hackers working through a Chinese-based IP address broke into the network of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

reply to post by w810i


If China's Rover couldn't survive it what makes us believe that we made it to the moon again?

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Why would China's technical difficulties have ANY bearing on what other Nations are capable of?

SLAYER69
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

Why would China's technical difficulties have ANY bearing on what other Nations are capable of?

So according to you back in the 1960s that our astronauts had 200% guaranteed space suit which protected them from the very ultra radiation from the Sun and the Moon Night, dark side of the Moon ?

As I quoted on the 16th of December 2013....

0bserver1
I think it's great that China is going to explore the moon .. But believe me when I say nothing sensitive will catch our eyes.
Only because they never tell any secrets . Its in their interest to examine and use for their own agenda to also hide it from the world public view.

And another thing if they are driving this wrabbit on wheels up to sensitive areas, and I think they're also there for that reason.
You'll never hear from it again.
I give this vehicle two weeks max before it's destroyed just a blatant statement nothing more, I just have this bad feeling about this.

Agent_USA_Supporter
So according to you back in the 1960s that our astronauts had 200% guaranteed space suit which protected them from the very ultra radiation from the Sun and the Moon Night, dark side of the Moon ?

According to me?

No, According to the overwhelming evidence presented almost daily here on ATS and throughout the rest of the known world.

w810i
China's Jade Rabbit Rover May Be Doomed On The Moon

Well, well, well this is rather interesting and I am sure will get the conspiracy theories rolling! Did the rabbit go down the hole and find the aliens or did they see the supposed american base??

Here's something to possibly think about with the Moon: US has established Keep Out Zones on the moon and the US has gone so far as to propose legislation that would make American landing sites into National Parks.

Plus, US has at least two lunar orbiting weapons platforms : the LRO and LADEE, both are equipped with laser instruments capable of targeting.

Plus, Remember back in August of 2009 when LRO did a rendezvous with the Indian spacecraft Chandraayan-1 and what happened was that the mission failed shortly after.

Chandraayan-1 might have been under attack from another space craft (LRO?) but they told the public that the sun & the moon were causing the ship to over heat,

The spacecraft was experiencing high temperature because of radiation from the Sun and infrared radiation reflected by the Moon

Which did NOT stop the Chandraayan-1 from mapping Apollo landing sites,

ISRO announced in January 2009 the completion of the mapping of the Apollo Moon missions landing sites by the orbiter, using multiple payloads.

And then another operation was to rendezvous Chandrayaan-1 with the LRO, look what happened,

On 21 August 2009 Chandrayaan-1 along with the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter attempted to perform a bistatic radar experiment using their Mini-SAR radars to detect the presence of water ice on the lunar surface.

... 8 days later the Indian craft has been finished off for good.

However, at 09.02 (UTC) on 29 August 2009 communication with the spacecraft was suddenly lost. After suffering from several technical issues including failure of the star sensors and poor thermal shielding, Chandrayaan stopped sending radio signals at 01:30 IST on 29 August 2009.

From a conspiracy viewpoint, that is to say, a viewpoint that NASA has something to hide on the Moon, it looks like the Indian spacecraft was "given permission" to orbit the moon and take 100-m images to "confirm Apollo" but when that function was completed NASA blasted it with lasers after that specific job was complete.

SkuzzleButt
What if.....the USA sabotaged Chinas Rover because they were going to check to see if the apollo landing sites where there!

Hehe - think about what you're saying there...

The US sabotaged the Chinese Rover because it was about to prove the Apollo landings were fake...

Which begs the question, how did the US sabotage it if they haven't been to the moon?

SayonaraJupiter
US has established Keep Out Zones on the moon

Have they? First I am hearing of this - how do they enforce it?

SayonaraJupiter
and the US has gone so far as to propose legislation that would make American landing sites into National Parks.

The US is a signatory to international treaties prohibiting any one nation staking a claim, so I find this hard to believe and if it was done, it was probably some crackpot congressman doing it.

SayonaraJupiter
Plus, US has at least two lunar orbiting weapons platforms : the LRO and LADEE, both are equipped with laser instruments capable of targeting.

Weapons platforms? LRO is just another mapping/analysis probe. Same with LADEE. What makes you think they are "weapons platforms"?

SayonaraJupiter
Plus, Remember back in August of 2009 when LRO did a rendezvous with the Indian spacecraft Chandraayan-1 and what happened was that the mission failed shortly after.

There was no rendezvous - there was a joint mission but it failed and was already showing signs of failure prior to and during the LRO mission. Bear in mind, this was India's first probe and they accomplished all of their mission objectives.

SayonaraJupiter
Chandraayan-1 might have been under attack from another space craft (LRO?) but they told the public that the sun & the moon were causing the ship to over heat,

Oh jeebus, really? Why go for the most outlandish explanation, rather than the most logical and sensible?

SayonaraJupiter
From a conspiracy viewpoint, that is to say, a viewpoint that NASA has something to hide on the Moon, it looks like the Indian spacecraft was "given permission" to orbit the moon and take 100-m images to "confirm Apollo" but when that function was completed NASA blasted it with lasers after that specific job was complete.

Again with the outlandish - What would NASA have to gain from "blasting" the probe? What is the power source of this "superlaser" orbiting the moon that, apparently, has the power to "blast" satellites? Surely if it had been blasted, there would be a debris field?

Occam's razor is a useful concept, you know. Might be helpful if you used it.

It is far more likely that Chandrayaan-1 failed due to technical issues, given the hostile environment and it is the fate of a good chunk of space missions. Your explanation requires so many "out there" concepts as to be on the verge of lunacy

stumason
Have they? First I am hearing of this - how do they enforce it?

They can't enforce it. It's more like a request which others are then at liberty to honor or not:

Keep Out: NASA Asks Future Moon Visitors to Respect Its Stuff

“NASA has recognized that these sites are important to mankind and have to be protected to make sure there’s no undue damage done to them,” said John Thornton, president of Astrobotic Technology Inc., a company competing for the prize.

Though NASA has no way of enforcing the requirements, they are designed to protect materials and scientific equipment at historical lunar sites as well as future landing sites. The guidelines have been made available internationally, and the agency welcomes other nations to participate in and improve upon them, said NASA spokesperson Joshua Buck in an e-mail.

NASA is asking anyone that makes it to the lunar surface to keep their landing at least 1.2 miles away from any Apollo site and about 1,600 feet from the five Ranger impact sites. The distance should keep the old equipment safe from a terrible accident or collision. It will also would put the new equipment “over the lunar horizon” relative to the relics, and prevent any moon dust – known to be a highly abrasive material – from sandblasting NASA’s old machines.

The Apollo 11 and 17 sites — the first and last places visited by man — are singled out in particular for extra care and respect.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Ok - that makes sense - Just a request to not land near the stuff that is there in case they bodge it up and ruin it for any future "Moon Museum" I suppose.

stumason

SayonaraJupiter
US has established Keep Out Zones on the moon

Have they? First I am hearing of this - how do they enforce it?

Occam's razor is a useful concept, you know. Might be helpful if you used it.

If you don't know about the Keep Out Zones on the Moon then I think it is appropriate for you to put away Occam's razor, at least until you have looked at it objectively.

You may also want to look closely at the career and qualifications of the man currently in charge of NASA Mr. Charles Bolden, Marine Corp. general officer, commanded No Fly Zones in the middle east and a veteran of 4 space shuttle flights. There is no more qualified man in America to handle the protection of the Moon and the secrets it holds.

Weapons platforms? LRO is just another mapping/analysis probe. Same with LADEE. What makes you think they are "weapons platforms"?

A laser in a space environment is not simply an instrument it can also target "enemy" spacecraft if the need arises.

Again with the outlandish - What would NASA have to gain from "blasting" the probe? What is the power source of this "superlaser" orbiting the moon that, apparently, has the power to "blast" satellites? Surely if it had been blasted, there would be a debris field?

I actually said "when that function was completed NASA blasted it with lasers " but I didn't say "superlasers". And when I say "blasted" I did not suggest there was an explosion, but you did extend what I said into "a debris field", so you are the one who has suggested an explosion.

Btw, how is that Occam's razor working out for you? If you want some further details on the Keep Out Zones check out my thread titled MOON: First Keep Out Zones now National Parks for Apollo Sites?
www.abovetopsecret.com...