Gunung Padang new results and the possibility it was built 23,000 years ago !

Gunung Padang is a pyramid; one of the few pyramids found in south-east Asia. The site was found to have chambers and shafts hidden under the overgrown terraces with walled areas and other structures buried under centuries of natural reclamation. The next step in the excavation was to drill core samples in various locations to try to nail down a more accurate age for the site. This proved to be a dangerous endeavour for three tomography researchers who were beaten and kicked by locals who objected to the work, citing the sacred nature of the site.[1]

Nonetheless, the work continued and the results were astounding.

Analysis of core samples of the hill and structure began to reveal greater and greater age the deeper they looked. From 5000 years, to 8000 years, to 10,000 years and all the way up to a reported 23,000 years old. These numbers are incredible! The implication is that this site is the oldest known structure of any kind on Earth.

If that wasn't enough to make one wonder this next little bit caught my attention:

One of the most interesting things about Gunung Padang, aside from its age, is that during coring it was found that much of the buried structure was reinforced with a type of cement. This bonding agent, which has been used as a mortar and sort of glue in certain parts of the site, consists of 45% iron ore, 41% silica and 14% clay. It’s said that this mixture provides for a very strong and durable mortar base, and is surprising evidence of the level of sophistication of the building technique.

I would have thought "iron ore" would not make a good bonding agent ? Obviously I was totally wrong ! If the dating is correct that would have this place flourishing during the middle of the last Ice age... It has been said that the sea levels were approximately 400 feet lower during those times.. Another reason IMO we have a hard time finding ancient cities because many were coastal and are now under mud and silt plus 400 feet of water ! A fresh water river which flows into the ocean would provide many of the basics for a thriving city or even a small tribe... Until the ocean rose and what was left of the river continued to dump it's silt over the entire area...

mysteriousuniverse.org...

www.rmol.co...
a translation of this article states:

the accumulated results of Independent Research Integrated Research Team (TTRM) done in the last two years succeeded in proving that the site is not only extraordinary arguably even "beyond imagination". For example, the site is a megalithic structure terraces are composed of rocks of basaltic andesite columns are visible on the surface instead of just closing the top of the hill area of 50x150 m 2 alone but shut down the entire hill area of at least 15 ha. Mount Padang is a magnificent monuments such as Machu Pichu in Peru. could be concluded, Mount Padang proved really high architectural masterpiece of ancient civilizations are lost or not known at this time. In other words, finding the building under a mountain meadow is a "breakthrough" for the world of science and at the same time will be an invaluable national pride. [YSA]

Wonder if member Cheesy has any knowledge ? Since his boss transferred him to marketing he is without a computer only a cell phone for posting !.. We should take up a collection and buy him one!

reply to post by 727Sky


I find all this rather fascinating of course, and I appreciate the quality of your OP, but I wish to illuminate a few issues about iron ore as a bonding agent.

In modern bank vault walls, concrete is mixed with additives like metal shavings and abrasives. The mixture is heated so that the metal bonds with the rest of the concoction, and adds tensile strength. The abrasives resist drilling and cutting tools, by blunting all but the hardest blades. Adding metal to the mixture also decreases the "slump" of the mixture, which is a measure of its consistency. Modern bank vault walls have zero slump, as a result of the additives in the mix, and the process by which they are cured. In addition, because metal cools rather quickly, the curing time for a bank vault wall panel is much faster than the same sized panel of regular concrete. In addition to the additives, a mesh of metal bars is plunged into the panel before it begins to set, increasing the crush resistance of the panel, and the impact resistance as well.

To see iron ore used in a manner so similar in its conception, to that used in modern bank vault technology, but twenty plus thousand years in the past... it has staggering implications. Brilliant OP, great topic too. S+F and all that!

727Sky

I would have thought "iron ore" would not make a good bonding agent ? Obviously I was totally wrong ! If the dating is correct that would have this place flourishing during the middle of the last Ice age... It has been said that the sea levels were approximately 400 feet lower during those times.. Another reason IMO we have a hard time finding ancient cities because many were coastal and are now under mud and silt plus 400 feet of water ! A fresh water river which flows into the ocean would provide many of the basics for a thriving city or even a small tribe... Until the ocean rose and what was left of the river continued to dump it's silt over the entire area...

First off, Great find and thank you!

If the site is indeed on the 23,000 year mark then the possibility of older sites or along a similar timeline could exist and then that would give another reason for these 'sites' to disappear. After so long, time tends to swallow up buildings and merge back with the earth. Such as plant life growing, breaking down the stone from other elements such as wind, rain etc. Some sites that have been excavated in the 1900s have already lost a lot to mother nature since being uncovered. Such as the pyramids of Giza for example. Not being exact but imagine if the pyramids of Giza had that level of abrasion instead over a couple of hundred years, what about over 20,000? IMO there probably wouldn't be much left to even acknowledge it was were a pyramid to begin with - As in your post where they mention about what they thought was a pyramid on a hill.....and then found it was the hill

Very interesting reading and I had not heard of this site before, so thanks for posting the info.

I hope they get the go ahead for excavation, in spite of the obstacles put in place by the "experts". Thing is, as with many other fields, people have vested interests in sticking to the current accepted thinking as they have built careers around it. But, many times it's all theory and they refuse to accept that they might be wrong, a very arrogant and short sighted approach from people who are supposed to be scientists!

It's not hard to imagine that many large urban centres were located along coastlines, that are now lost forever under several hundred feet of water after the end of the last ice age. If the conditions were as cataclysmic as they are thought to have been, then it's no wonder such places were abandoned and society disintegrated. Many would have died and perhaps the survivors had no choice but to begin again at the most basic levels of technology. Lets face it, in the same situation today, small pockets of survivors, without the modern day trappings and technology would also have to start again as a hunter gatherer society and basic agriculture, especially if those with the knowledge and expertise perished.

I am sure there were many great population centres and sophisticated civilisations before us, but they just died out due to natural events and the survivors had to start out from scratch. A very thought provoking field though, if you think outside the "settled" timelines they teach us as fact in schools.

reply to post by 727Sky


It would be nice if this was true, though the title of the linked article, 'Gunung Padang and the Lost City of Atlantis', suggests that it is not.

Is it Indonesian archaeologists who are claiming this? I would treat any of their conclusions with the deepest suspicion. I have had some dealings with Indonesian historians and academics and was not at all impressed. Much Indonesian archaeology and palaentology is simply a conspiracy to promote Indonesia as the cradle of mankind, based on the fact that some human remains ('Java Man', now identified as Homo erectus) were found there.

Developing-country academics often have nationalist agendas that make the production of scientifically tenable results almost impossible. This extends even to countries as advanced and sophisticated (I am not being ironic) as India. My own country, by the way, is absolutely impossible; 'scientific research' here is a joke.

As for the 'prestigious Betalab in Miami' mentioned in the linked article, it is an ordinary commercial analytical laboratory. I don't necessarily doubt the accuracy of their results, but what exactly was sent for testing?

I'm not saying Gunung Padang isn't 23,000 years old, but until we have independent corroboration from a more reliable source, it is best to be sceptical about these claims.

Cool stuff, we need more research into this site to find out more.

I wonder where the iron ore came from, and how they worked out the mixture, how much of the ore was 'rust', yep iron expands when it goes rusty splitting anything around it, as in the Parthenon portals. (that old Greek temple on the hill in Athens, capitol of Greece)

It just keeps getting better as the years go by.

Padang 11,000 years old

Padang 14,000 BC

Padang 20,000 Years Old

S&F 727 -

Interesting this correlation of time line.
Scott Creighton (a member here) has speculated the G.P of Giza
is approximately in the same age range as Gundung Padang is
now predicted.

Strange finding these ancient monoliths in the weirdest locations
all covered by some type of vegetation.
Pyramids covered by vegetation, Gobekli Tepe covered on by sand so on..

It gives one the impression that there was a global devistation on a colossal scale
and due to a long period of extreme high winds and volcanic ash, these artifacts were
covered by debris mixed with organics and ash being distributed due to high wind activity.

Gives one much to think about!

@TrueBrit -
Interesting knowledge on bank safe walls .
Hopefully your not writing this from a jail cell. lol

Be well all.

perhaps the Iron Ore was not so much a 'mortar'' or a joining compound...

we are all familiar with Iron being a ferrous metal which aligns with magnetic fields/poles
might the structure actually incorporate Iron ore for a magnetic reason?
a shield... or else something like a vortex which is wider & denser at the base & narrow at the heights (like reversed funnel or tornado)

I think there is an awful lot about pyramids that we still have to find out, especially what their purpose was or if they had several purposes.

It seems that most archaeologists are reluctant to pull back in time dates concerning the constructions like the pyramids. Its almost as though the main school of archaelogy is determined to stick to a set time line that is less than 4000 years BC. I do wonder if this is too tight.

Also during the last ice age wouldn't man have slowly moved closer to the equator and into the southern hemisphere to get away from the cold. There are places in the southern hemisphere that are virtually ignorred, like Nan Madol and the cities under the water are pulling the time line back due to the water levels when they were constructed.

Its almost as though we had one society that was terrifically advanced and then it went away and we virtually started over again, but we still haven't found out why we go from such a sophisticated building programme back to almost having to rediscover the wheel again.

HumAnnunaki
S&F 727 -


@TrueBrit -
Interesting knowledge on bank safe walls

.
Hopefully your not writing this from a jail cell.

lol

Be well all.

LOL! No, I am a locksmith! Cracking locks for criminal enterprise is against my code of ethics!! Although my particular expertise in that feild does not stretch to vault cracking, I do have a television with a channel called Quest, and it has some rather brilliant documentaries, one of which was involved with the creation of vault walls. I found it dead interesting, and like all information that I find interesting, I filed it away somewhere for later.

Do not worry... there will be no massive thefts on my watch!

This is interesting if true....and leads to some speculations...
The Sphinx is also an enigma which has been recently dated by Shock as about that age as well....give or take...and it all seems to indicate a world wide civilisation which flourished around that time frame.

reply to post by 727Sky


Well braught to the table, I love this stuff and anything that can shine new and more accurate light on our past than the usualy self righteous opinions of traditionists.
S+F

reply to post by Astyanax


You are spot on with that insight.

stirling
This is interesting if true....and leads to some speculations...
The Sphinx is also an enigma which has been recently dated by Shock as about that age as well....give or take...and it all seems to indicate a world wide civilisation which flourished around that time frame.

i read somewhere that the body of the Sphinx had been dated to be much older than the head. i cant remember where though. then again i still dont understand how they date the ages of these things

Love these things.

A little more info I came across today:

Here

The link has further links to extra pieces of interest.

Interesting if true, as it would mean a concerted effort by the archaeological establishment to discredit and stall a valid and ongoing excavation. Why?

The "Archaeologist" in the Jakarta post article takes vague issue with methodology on site, despite by her own admission to never having been there. The site itself is of sufficient interest to the Indonesian ministry of culture that they are effectively writing blank cheque's, and the team on sites credentials seem legit, so why all the opposition?

Could be that this Dr Natawidjaja is about to make some people look foolish.

a reply to: Culcullen

From your link:

Dr Natawidjaja fought back, doing some high-level lobbying of his own, taking the matter to the President of Indonesia himself. There were further delays to do with elections in Indonesia but just a couple of months ago, in mid-August 2014, the final obstacles were lifted and Dr Natawidjaja and his team moved back onto the Gunung Padang site with full approval to go ahead with their work, including permission to excavate the concealed chambers.

Archaeologists were furious and immediately began lobbying to get the work stopped – fortunately to no avail as preliminary excavations have produced results that prove beyond doubt that Gunung Padang in indeed a man-made pyramid of great antiquity as Dr Natawidjaja had long ago proposed. Even the relatively young layer so far excavated (the second artificial columnar rock-layer beneath the megalithic site visible on the surface) has yielded dates of 5200 BC (nearly 3000 years older than the orthodox dating for the Pyramids of Giza in Egypt) and there are firm indications from the original remote sensing and core drilling work of much older layers below. In short, it is now evident to all that the site is vastly older than the 2500 years that archaeologists had insisted upon for decades. Even the most hostile amongst them are therefore now reframing their assessment of the site and referring to it as “a gigantic terraced tomb, which was part of the biggest megalithic culture in the archipelago.”

originally posted by: Shiloh7

It seems that most archaeologists are reluctant to pull back in time dates concerning the constructions like the pyramids. Its almost as though the main school of archaelogy is determined to stick to a set time line that is less than 4000 years BC. I do wonder if this is too tight.

There is no 'school of archaeology' no monolithic organization - its hundreds of schools using consensus with much dissent. What 'holds them back'? Evidence; where the evidence is found it moves; ie Catalhuyuck, Gobekli Tepe and Aşıklı Höyük come to mind.

Also during the last ice age wouldn't man have slowly moved closer to the equator and into the southern hemisphere to get away from the cold. There are places in the southern hemisphere that are virtually ignorred, like Nan Madol and the cities under the water are pulling the time line back due to the water levels when they were constructed.

Nan Madol is not ignored - unless you mean in reference to it being a city from Mu?

Its almost as though we had one society that was terrifically advanced and then it went away and we virtually started over again, but we still haven't found out why we go from such a sophisticated building programme back to almost having to rediscover the wheel again.

Except that the evidence doesn't show that .