NATO Ukraine

I am seeing things that should make each of us aware that Europe is getting dangerous again.
There is a good chance that NATO is rocking the boat in the Ukraine and just wants to get NATO missiles closer to China & Russia ready to attack them.
NATO countries in Europe have been helping the people rise up in the Ukraine and get the country away from Russia, just as NATO attacked Syria & Iraq and others, if Russia and China don't attack NATO soon it will be too late for them too.

Russia and China couldn't win. Not even a small chance.

Europe doesn't want war and can't afford one. Not even a small chance.

The only winner would be America most likely (assuming a fully conventional war). And I use the term winner loosely.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


No one can win,

That was the idea with the mutual assured destruction from cold war.

reply to post by Indigent


That's why I added the assuming conventional part. That means no WMD/Nukes. With Nukes it's a question of how bad you lose, not if.

reply to post by Alternative4u

Europe is getting dangerous again

NATO is more a puppet of Anglo-American interests that anythings else. The issue in Ukraine is more about Russian meddling than the EU (not Europe as Europe is not the same as the EU) and not even all the EU, you can directly verify what nations have interests in Ukraine by governmental visits. Even if the pressures of some of the EU states are more visibly abusive that the pressures from the Russians they are more or less equal in offense to Ukraine's independence. If I was the government I would make the issue clear to the population, exposing the play of the Russians (blackmail) and the unlawful interference of some EU members in national policy (I would kick their ambassadors off the country).

Note that there is also a link to Syria (Ukraine is very supportive due to long historic economic links with the Syrian government, especially during the USSR times).

The EU offer had no real issues and did not put Ukraine in any compromise, but in the long term it meant a slow move of Ukraine towards the EU. The Russians on the other side decided to make it a problem and so made an unrefusable offer that in the short term would be more interesting to the Ukrainian people but in the long run keep the status quo of Ukraine dependency on Russia. Now, while Russia can work unsee in the midst of the Ukraine governance the EU nations (+ the US) that had economic/geopolitical interests acted in plain sight, even in an abusive way.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


US used nukes on Japan even when Japans already was lost, there is no "if" to consider, when Russia/China finally go to a direct war with US it will be surrender or get nuked, so the only way to avoid MAD would be to rely on the common sense of Russia/China, as we know US politicians don't have any.

reply to post by Indigent


Japan could not nuke back, and exactly what would happen wasn't known. Very different than today. If Russia/China launched we would launch back. Our defenses are much better. They would be very unlikely to launch.

Alternative4u
There is a good chance that NATO is rocking the boat in the Ukraine and just wants to get NATO missiles closer to China & Russia ready to attack them.

With all due respect, if you really believe that NATO countries want to get missiles closer to China and Russia to attack them then you probably work for some Russian or Chinese propaganda agency!

I'm not even sure what this thread is hoping to achieve. It's just supposition on your part.

NATO is never going to attack Russia or China. Simple.

reply to post by Alternative4u


I don't really think NATO needs to get there missiles any closer these days. Russia knows what side her bread is buttered!

If they managed to somehow get involved in a shooting war, they would lose, granted so would half the world, but then who would they sell all there energy to?

Same with China, if we go to war and destroy everything then China would lose out on all that U.S debt that they seem to control these days.

The world is already on her knees hopefully no one is silly enough to add a full on Nuclear exchange to there problems!

Indigent
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

US used nukes on Japan

No they didn't.

However, The Allies did so.

Seems to me the poster has not seen or heard of nuclear powered submarines on patrol off of said countries, armed with nuclear bomb tipped missiles, American 'minuteman' missiles, and whatever else we mere mortals have no inkling of.

reply to post by alldaylong


I'm sure Harry S. Truman had a long phone conversation with Churchill and Stalin before authorizing the use of said nuclear weapon! LoL

andy06shake
reply to post by alldaylong

 

I'm sure Harry S. Truman had a long phone conversation with Churchill and Stalin before authorizing the use of said nuclear weapon!

LoL

You need to learn history.

The Bomb could not have been used without the agreement of The US , Britain And Canada. Those are the countries that built it.

For your education i attached this:-

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by alldaylong


Correct me if i'm wrong but was Russia not also an allied partner? Don't think they told them now did they!

Think you needs to learn who exactly made up the allied powers! LoL

en.wikipedia.org...

andy06shake
reply to post by alldaylong

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but was Russia not also an allied partner? Don't think they told them now did they!

Think you needs to learn who exactly made up the allied powers!

LoL

edit on 28-1-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

So you are saying The US, Britain and Canada were not WW II allies.

Strange.

reply to post by alldaylong


No, im saying that Russia was also an allied partner and that America in no way disclosed the dropping of atomic devices on Japan to them before doing so.

Your saying it was the allies and not America that dropped the bomb, how could that be if they did not inform the soviets before hand considering they were also allies?

andy06shake
reply to post by alldaylong

 

No, im saying that Russia was also an allied partner and that America in no way whatsoever disclosed the dropping of atomic devices on Japan before hand.

Your saying it was the allies and not America that dropped the bomb, how could that be if they did not inform the soviets before hand considering they were also allies?

Were did i state an agreement had to be made between ALL the allies.
Please point this out.

reply to post by iskander683

NATO is never going to attack Russia or China. Simple.

It is not a question of attack its a question of deterrence and influence. From sales of military equipment to training (especially indoctrination and infiltration of military structures and access to information system) and a way cover some activity and better coordinate them (Libya, Turkey) to the exertion of geopolitical influence in their areas. Especially Russia is forced to become more diplomatic and curb some of the more provocative actions they may otherwise engage (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran and Syria or even previous satellite states of the USSR) that still have strategic importance/resources or economic links.

reply to post by Alternative4u


This may be sad to say but eventually something has to happen. I prefer this something to be in my lifetime so I can witness and accurately record what I see for as long as possible. The mentality we have will never gradually change...it will to be something violent. I hope that I am part of this change.

It seems the OP thinks this is 1960 and that Balistic missle subs do not exist. And if it was 1960 and they wanted to put missles right next to Russia they would put them in Lavia, Estonia, Lithuania or Poland. The problem in the Ukraine is this. They look east and see Russia and the states still tied and what kind of shape they are in and then they look west and see former Soviet and Warsaw pact states flourishing since leaving Russias influence. Is it any wonder they would prefer to go with the EU?