When Will We Stand Up and Say, "No more!"?

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

I agree.

Sleep, my freind, tell me, what exactly is the par excellence paradigm of a Democracy? What makes American democracy a cut above the rest?

The problem that I have with the American system of Government is the sheer amount of power that is granted to the Executive branch.

I would also like to see someone answer me this questions: Was Bush CHOSEN by the PEOPLE has a cadidate for the Presidency, or, was Bush CHOSEN FOR THE PEOPLE as a candidate for the Presidency..

Deep

The power and beauty of American democracy is that its elected officials are replaced on a regular basis---unlike many other countries.

The Executive branch has no more or no less power than what the constitution gives it---and to make sure that it works we have elected representatives---we have the vote---despite all the whining that is going on with the Democrats because they didn�t get their way and like children are now throwing a tantrum, democracy is working perfectly.

Bush was chosen by a large majority of the American people---to do what he is doing---The buck doesn�t stop with Bush---it stops with those who gave him the power---the American people!



[edit on 21-11-2004 by sleeper]

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Be sure to get an understanding of the hundreds of ways that voters have been denied their democratic right to vote before you dig yourself further into your mistaken position that a democracy exists in the US.

I have heard of many of the issues with the Diebold machines, and it has always been my very strong opinion that the people that designed and built those machines should be fired. But the states are to blame also. HAVA provided the states with funds to replace punch card voting systems, and the states paid a million bucks for a Chevy with bald tires, 300,000 miles, and a noisy transmission. So the blame rests with them.

I have complete confidence that a team of good second-year engineering students could design a nearly foolproof registration/voting system in six months, for 1/100th the cost.

End of discussion wrt Diebold. If the states do not learn from their mistakes, then too bad for them. They deserve what they get. And the fact that so many of them have the same problems negates any notion of collusion on their part; I don't think they have the brains to do so. They could screw up a one-car funeral.

BUT - I have not heard of voters being denied their right to vote. What data do you have to back this up?

In a Democract, the people as a whole are in charge of the government by majority rule. We have to stand up and stop the bullsh** that congress is doing right as we read and post these boards.

PORK, "The other white meat". Sorry some

Blog & Source USA Today ? Could'nt find the link tonight!

The $388 billion spending bill that cleared Congress on Saturday and will head to President Bush for his signature has 11,772 earmarked special projects totaling $15.8 billion, according to the watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense. Among them:
$25,000 for the study of mariachi music in Nevada's Clark County School District.
$225,000 for the National Wild Turkey Federation in South Carolina.
$1 million for the Missouri Pork Producers Federation to convert animal waste into energy.
$75,000 for renovating the Merry Go Round Playhouse in Auburn, N.Y.
$100,000 for a weather museum in Punxsutawney, Pa.
$800,000 for "soybean rust research" in Ames, Iowa.
$75,000 for "hides and leather research" in Wyndmoor, Pa.
$1,593 for potato storage in Madison, Wis.
$1 million for a world birding center, Texas.
$150,000 to pay for beaver management and damage in Wisconsin.
$200,000 for the American Cotton Museum in Greenville, Texas.
$100,000 for a swimming pool in Ottawa, Kan.
$70,000 for a "Paper Industry International Hall of Fame" in Appleton, Wis.
$1.5 million for the Rep. Richard Gephardt Archive at the Missouri Historical Society.
$2 million for the government to buy back the presidential yacht USS Sequoia, sold in 1977 by President Jimmy Carter to demonstrate frugality.

None of this Diebold fact or fiction means much of anything, because it would really change nothing if it came to light (granting that it happened that way).

Anyone not for the systematic reconstruction of the government and its operation really isn't advocating anything but delaying the inevitable.

As is obvious to the casual observer, human instruments only have a limited shelf-life. They will come to an end, barring drastic change; otherwise the end (which isn't normally very pretty) will BRING drastic change.

I, on one hand, would prefer to at least have some measure of control over that tumultuous time (because it could be drawing near).

why dont you Americans start a peoples revolution...with 80% of you guys having guns,the best thing to do is march to the white house and make it red using Bush's blood...then you can ask John Kerry or Al Gore or even Hillary to run your country.. Bush is destroying another country in the middle east..why dont you Americans destroy Bush's home..Texas...and go to D.c and blow the Capitol...but please spare LIncoln...I lone that dude..

Originally posted by papar_united
why dont you Americans start a peoples revolution...with 80% of you guys having guns,

Wow, the ability to be under par in this place is getting pretty staggering. I really think it's a result of the marketing employed in elections (2000 and 2004 especially).

I'm not sure where you contrive your information, but in 1994 gun ownership was at around 25%. If we have somehow jumped from 25% to 80% in 10 years, then we have a serious shift socially (one which really didn't happen).

Estimates show that there are between 77 and 90 million private guns in America. That certainly is a far cry from 80%, to say the least.

You could learn from this...

the best thing to do is march to the white house and make it red using Bush's blood...then you can ask John Kerry or Al Gore or even Hillary to run your country.. Bush is destroying another country in the middle east..why dont you Americans destroy Bush's home..Texas...and go to D.c and blow the Capitol...but please spare LIncoln...I lone that dude..

Sigh, listen son, if this is a serious suggestion, then I would say that you have serious problems relating to humanity and/or reality.

Additionally, "rebelling" and simply replacing the President, does nothing to curtail the systemic problems ailing us these days.

I would like to know why you feel this way though.

Its not about bush or kerry, its about the laws being past and people being so preoccupied or uncaring enough that they let it slip. People will do one of three things have small revolts (terrorists), theres something cool on TV (sheep) or protest for a tiny victory (pests).

I don't think people can be understanding enough about any and all "sides/people" to make it a real issuse for the govt. . I don't even think half the population of adults (not students) can organize something that takes more then a few days that has a chance to fail.

Originally posted by sleeper

So with that logic Clinton got in because his cronies wanted him, and not the American voter? Are you still in grade school?

That tone is uncalled for in this instance. You may well have been in the Young Ladies Classroom. So shape up son.

Originally posted by sleeper

Bush was chosen by a large majority of the American people---to do what he is doing---The buck doesn�t stop with Bush---it stops with those who gave him the power---the American people!

[edit on 21-11-2004 by sleeper]

Not, he was elected by a small majority and that majority was in all probability stolen. Directly from the Cradle of Liberty

Originally posted by papar_united
why dont you Americans start a peoples revolution...with 80% of you guys having guns,the best thing to do is march to the white house and make it red using Bush's blood...then you can ask John Kerry or Al Gore or even Hillary to run your country.. Bush is destroying another country in the middle east..why dont you Americans destroy Bush's home..Texas...and go to D.c and blow the Capitol...but please spare Lincoln...I lone that dude..

In the end this is what it will come to and sooner than most would think. Complacency of the majority of youth delivered us to this point. It shall be downhill from here. It is clear the Dark Side, for lack of a better word, is in control. Within the year the youth will wake up. However until the U.S. Army, the Salt of American Earth, wakes up. Nothing will change. It will be a Maelstrom swirling down, mark my word. I am not a pessimist I am a realist, I see reality.

Originally posted by Classygirl

I know that all of us have something they want to proclaim, something that gets to the core of our hearts. We all know that wrong things are happening and many suffer because of this.

What will it take for our fires to be lit?! When will we stand together as a people. It's time for us to not only wake up, but get up! We have to push for change.

Don't sit back on your passions because there is power behind it. We have more power than we think.

You remind me of a Old New England Yankee Friend I once had. Your spunk is refreshing!
However, forget your legislatures, they are of one party. Focus on friends and neighbors and family. The Grass Root is what must grow. Your local Colleges and working class Pubs your Irish, Italian, Mexican, Laotian, Lithuanian, Indian, Arabian, Mongolian, etc... Grass Root is where the Fire must be lit. Not with your well to do Congressional Representatives. They have been bought and sold for half your Heart. Soon it will come to the forefront that we have been sold down the Mighty Mississippi, by Internationalists. Orwellian, Hegelian, Straussian, extremists of a selfish nature. Whose Quest is Power. Keep your Power Personal.

Polar Bear

Originally posted by Classygirl
I am 21 years old and have just began, seriously,searching out what is going on in this country. There are many injustices and it seems like there will be more if nothing is done about them.

But, we DO have power! Our input is worthy to be listened to. It's as though we have forgotten that we live under a democracy and that the government shouldn't have as much control as they have.

When do we say,"No more!", our lives and our childrens lives are being taken away for NO good reason. To tell it like it is, war scars all who have lived through it, and scars the families of the soldiers who have passed.

I know that all of us have something they want to proclaim, something that gets to the core of our hearts. We all know that wrong things are happening and many suffer because of this.

What will it take for our fires to be lit?! When will we stand together as a people. It's time for us to not only wake up, but get up! We have to push for change.

I have already started to contact my legislators about a specific issue that I am passionate about, but I know that I have to do more.

Whatever your passion is, it's there for a reason. If your passion is about equality, you have the ability to push for more equality. If you have passion concerning healthcare, retirement, better representation, etc... you have the power to push for all these issues. Don't sit back on your passions because there is power behind it. We have more power than we think.

Well, I kinda agree with you. But try going to family law court and fighting to get your children back from your adulterious ex husband who took your children from you because he has a 3,000 sq ft home and lots of money and is all of a sudden interested in the welfare of his daughters!!!!! I fought for four years, wrote to the judge, the congressman and Child Support Services. But, in the end, the judge only rules what the children want, not what is right for the children. Children nowadays are so spoiled and evil. They have no idea what it was like for us baby boomers who didn't have cable tv, PS2, internet chat rooms and all the various "indoor" games now available to anyone who has the money.
Although we all should not sit back and do nothing, if there is a cause you firmly believe in and want to fight for that cause, then by all means, go right ahead and contact your congressman! But, forget about family law and the courts, you need a ton of money to fight for your cause there!
Okay, I've done enough ranting for one day.

ALL AND EVERY legitimate process--petition for redress, the election system, recall and referendum, the courts, the media--have been taken over by predatory interests who want to dominate over us as if we were animals.

The only thing left to do is pray for Deliverance. And God will hear us.

He promised.

For starters that ain't a Greyhound or a C ocker those are Miami or Hiealea Dogs you got a Rott there, good Old Boy also.
I gave my house and Children to my ex you ain't alone either, cheer up could be worse, what if they were all dead. Chill, see what I mean though. Could be worse.
Least you got a dog. I got a headache. And a BIG HEART. I'm lucky.

Polar Bear

... you'd been up too long.

... Why don't you go get some sleep? You'll feel better. The headache will go away.

Wow!! I'm glad to see that some people still have heart.

Ark, I am sooo glad that you wrote what you wrote, that will help me even more.

You guys rock!!!!

[Edited on 23-11-2004 by Classygirl]

Oh yeah, you requested websites, Kidfinger. I have a bunch for you all to read.

www.infowars.com...
www.educate-yourself.org...

These websites will tell you things that the gorvernment won't let you know about your health, how certain companies profit off of the "War on Terrorism", and so on.

Kidfinger, do you still have the website that I gave you on Freedom International? I have it in my favorites, but there are too many things in my favorites to find it at this time.


I am really glad to know that you are all not brainwashed!

Hello, rbailey. Your response was very interesting to read, but I don't have children. I was speaking out for those who go to war and for the families they leave behind.

I usually speak out for other people. So if you see that I am passionate about certain issues, it's because I usually consider how others are affected.

Originally posted by Classygirl


Kidfinger, do you still have the website that I gave you on Freedom International? I have it in my favorites, but there are too many things in my favorites to find it at this time.

Here you go CL

www.freedomforceinternational.org...


Keep up the good work

Thanks a bunch, Kidfinger!!

Originally posted by Polar Bear
For starters that ain't a Greyhound or a C ocker those are Miami or Hiealea Dogs you got a Rott there, good Old Boy also.
I gave my house and Children to my ex you ain't alone either, cheer up could be worse, what if they were all dead. Chill, see what I mean though. Could be worse.
Least you got a dog. I got a headache. And a BIG HEART. I'm lucky.

Polar Bear

LOL
Yes, that is a picture of purebred female cocker spaniel and I also have a greyhound which I just adopted. LOL

Originally posted by Classygirl
I am 21 years old and have just began, seriously,searching out what is going on in this country. There are many injustices and it seems like there will be more if nothing is done about them.

But, we DO have power! Our input is worthy to be listened to. It's as though we have forgotten that we live under a democracy and that the government shouldn't have as much control as they have.

When do we say,"No more!", our lives and our childrens lives are being taken away for NO good reason. To tell it like it is, war scars all who have lived through it, and scars the families of the soldiers who have passed.

I know that all of us have something they want to proclaim, something that gets to the core of our hearts. We all know that wrong things are happening and many suffer because of this.

What will it take for our fires to be lit?! When will we stand together as a people. It's time for us to not only wake up, but get up! We have to push for change.

I have already started to contact my legislators about a specific issue that I am passionate about, but I know that I have to do more.

Whatever your passion is, it's there for a reason. If your passion is about equality, you have the ability to push for more equality. If you have passion concerning healthcare, retirement, better representation, etc... you have the power to push for all these issues. Don't sit back on your passions because there is power behind it. We have more power than we think.

I'm confused. Could you be more specific? Or is this thread meant to just let people know the obvious: they have power in a democracy?

I was "turned in" for doing excessive quoting on this thread. I didn't realize I was doing excessive quoting. Frosty, I noticed you are doing more than me. Have you been "turned in" also? Gee, don't people have better things to do beside taddle tale?
I'm not quoting any more to say the least.

[edit on 30-11-2004 by rbailey7160]

[edit on 30-11-2004 by rbailey7160]