An Open Letter to Lovers of the Gun

reply to post by YayMayorBee


Thats exactly what I was saying. Good for you Sir!

Pure ignorance of personal responsibility.

reply to post by FyreByrd


"I used to love guns, grew up with them and had fun with them. When I became a parent, I read the literature and the statistics are clear - have a gun in your home - the chances of someone in that home dying by gun go up - and put away my guns forever.

I'm not against guns, I get the 'defense against the governmnet' argument (though I think it's pretty naive in todays world), but I certainly don't want anyone I love or even those I don't dying because a gun was a seemly easy answer.

I'll end with Mr. Pitt: "

And I, my friend, will end with this from our first President:

“A free people ought...to be armed”
― George Washington

reply to post by AK907ICECOLD


Essentially, this is correct. People are willing, actually very happy to, pay higher taxes so that they can have more restrictions placed on them. Look at HOA's as an example. The municpal laws aren't enough for some folks, so they move into gated communities with even more rules, and more fines, and more intrusion into their private/daily lives.

Reliance on the legal system as a source of recourse is cowardly in most cases. Most often, talking about it and working out arrangements will save a fortune in civl proceedings. And in the case where violence must be used to defend, the police are only minutes away while seconds count.

Take responsibility for yourself. Don't give it over to others. That is the essence of the matter. And the logic shows that it is accurate. Stricter gun laws = more gun crime. Across the board. At least, in the US. We stopped being subjects to the crown, and our weapons are a symbol of that.

chiefsmom
Your, (and fellow in Article) argument isn't making sense to me.

You claim that other members are telling you that overall violence is down, but ranting about gun violence in schools is up.

OK, so gun violence in school is up, but what about overall gun violence? Is that down overall?

This is just an anti gun rant, using the tragedy of school shootings.

Here in our Area, we have a private school, that has armed teachers, and the principle.
Guess how many school shootings we have had there?

Now this a grim picture. The administration and faculty packing so as to defend against armed angry students or imbalanced individuals with a fantasy and ample fire power. Only in America.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


And the situation would have never arisen if the Branch Davidians (if I recall correctly) had not be stockpiling weapons and explosives. Liberty and gun lovers - and religious - well religious cultism are a recipe for the death of innocents.

reply to post by PaJoe52


You should cite the entire quote... it would be more helpful to your argument that way....

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. — George Washington

www.famous-quote.net...

A different time and a different people.

FyreByrd
reply to post by SWCCFAN

 

And the situation would have never arisen if the Branch Davidians (if I recall correctly) had not be stockpiling weapons and explosives. Liberty and gun lovers - and religious - well religious cultism are a recipe for the death of innocents.

So stockpiling is a crime that should be dealt with by setting a house on fire with children in it by our government?

Your a special one

reply to post by AK907ICECOLD


Honestly, the odds of something like that happening are less probable then winning the lottery twice in one week.

I'm sorry for anyone that this may have happened to.

However, there are many ways of defusing dangerous situations. My daughter was in a dangerous situation with a drunk once. Fortunatly there were no guns involved. Just removing herself from the location - solved the problem.

I don't want to be a killer nor have a friend or family member be a killer.

I know killers, some military, some gang, some accidental and I'll tell you something - I can't think of anything harder to live with and my talks with these people (including my father, silver and bronze star) lead me to believe that killing someone else is an unnatural act and scars one for life (in my father's case is contributed to an early death). I do exclude pyscholpaths from this.

So many of you glorify killing and being willing to kill. It's not about protecting 'your loved ones' - statistics show, I'll say again - that gun violence is more likely in homes with guns, regardless of 'personal responsiblity' then in homes without them. If you truly wanted to protect your family - you'd get rid of the guns in your home. My opinion based on experience (mine, not yours) and statistical fact.

LurkingRelentlessly
i have a serious question for everybody who relies on police to save them in dangerous situations.

what do you do when the power is out? because where i live thats when most burglaries occur.

oh...your cell phone?

have you ever seen one of these? are you aware of how easy they are to create? the parts are readily available at radioshack.

your more vulnerable than you think.

I certainly don't 'rely' on anyone else to 'save' me. I don't put myself in dangerous situations nor do I relish 'winning'. As such, I've rarely found my self in dangerous situations.

Maybe it's a guy thing - like big cars. But it gets people killed.

I’m British I’ve got nothing against guns I’ve shot various guns and I’ve got no irrational fear of guns but there are so many mentally disturbed people around that having high capacity weapons freely available is just asking for trouble.

It seems to me that those Americans owning AR15s etc seem to use them mostly for killing watermelons or fizzy drinks bottles surely that kind of pointless foolery isn’t worth the lives of American kids.

A double barrel shotgun for shooting ducks and clays fair enough!
A bolt action rifle for deer and targets fair enough !
A revolver for personal and home defense fair enough !

But AK47s AR15s 1911s and Glock 17s these are war weapons they are for killing as many people as possible in the shortest time possible you shouldn’t need them in a civilized society in a stable country .

The reason for the 2nd amendment was to encourage militias in case some foreign power invaded but lets face it that hasn’t happened for 200 years and it never will again. Any other reason for owning combat weapons today is just a sham or a childish need to play at being a weekend Rambo gunning down defenseless beer cans and filling terrorist pumpkins with hot lead.

That's like saying drownings are more likely to happen around water....
Magazines are never even put in guns in my house unless I plan on needing to pull the trigger. They are kept in the same place so it would take me a second to get it ready to fire. No kids in my house so I feel comfortable keeping them stored in same location, but there WILL NEVER BE AN ACCIDENTAL SHOOTING IN MY HOME. Sure as hell no children will be shot.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I have a friend, he is older, in his mid sevenities. When he was younger he always carried a gun and didn't hesitate using it if he found it necessary. He never got caught, never spent any time in jail on 'gun charges' was smart and 'resonsible'.

He also ran his own business and hired ex-cons. He finally came to realize, that by carrying a gun at work (it went everywhere with him) he was putting his employees in danger.

You'll be happy to hear, I'm sure that he wasnt' worried about any of his employees being shot or shooting someone else or him. He was concerned that he was breaking their parol and endangering their very freedom.

This is a man who has helped perhaps hundreds of people and never forced his ideas on them and kept his mind open to others ideas and wellbeing.

He was able to put aside his fear because he cared about others. That is courage.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I don't call that courage. I call that cowering before the might of tyranny.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I guess if you include false-flag shootings, then number will appear statistically higher ?

Just a thought.

FyreByrd
reply to post by AK907ICECOLD

 

Honestly, the odds of something like that happening are less probable then winning the lottery twice in one week.

I'm sorry for anyone that this may have happened to.

However, there are many ways of defusing dangerous situations. My daughter was in a dangerous situation with a drunk once. Fortunatly there were no guns involved. Just removing herself from the location - solved the problem.

I don't want to be a killer nor have a friend or family member be a killer.

I know killers, some military, some gang, some accidental and I'll tell you something - I can't think of anything harder to live with and my talks with these people (including my father, silver and bronze star) lead me to believe that killing someone else is an unnatural act and scars one for life (in my father's case is contributed to an early death). I do exclude pyscholpaths from this.

So many of you glorify killing and being willing to kill. It's not about protecting 'your loved ones' - statistics show, I'll say again - that gun violence is more likely in homes with guns, regardless of 'personal responsiblity' then in homes without them. If you truly wanted to protect your family - you'd get rid of the guns in your home. My opinion based on experience (mine, not yours) and statistical fact.

Okay. I still think your a bit blind in the idea of what I was saying. I get your point, you don't want a gun in your house.

So be it. I support your choice wether I think its good or not. Just don't advocate to to the removal of my guns in my house if I can use and store them correctly.

reply to post by FyreByrd

I don't want to be a killer nor have a friend or family member be a killer.

Understandable, But you don;t want to watch your family being Rape or murdered in front of you either, Do you?
You really believe there in No Chance In He$$ that some one may never assault your home or family?

I know killers, some military, some gang, some accidental

I don't like the Fact you are calling the Military personnel Murderers even if you did use the word Some Military.
You want it to sound like you've known a lot of people you've been put in a situation where they've had to kill.
Sorry to read about your father, but, I can tell you this, nor am I or my wife a psychopath.
I'm a Vietnam Vet, Infantry, two tours then went into the MP's and from there into a FLEO job.

I still have weapons in my home, all our kids were raised with weapons in our home and those weapons are now and always have been loaded with one in the Pipe.
Your statistics are Total B S and most people know that.
If you're an adult and you want to own a weapon, get educated and use your head and keep your family educated, weapon safety.

Ok yet ANOTHER "GUNS ARE BAD" thread, as the saying goes " Guns don't kill people, people WITH guns kill people".
And to say that you become a parent and then therefore you must get rid of your guns is sad, it just shows that maybe you are too irresponsible to have agun in the first place.
Guns SHOULD be for defense, so what are you going to do to defend your family if an armed intruder gets into your home, shout at them? call the police? or cower in teh bedroom closet until the perp finds you?.

Yes I agree as a gun 'lover' that in the wrong hands they can be lethal but if you use the excuse "I'm now a parent therefore the guns go" maybe your not ready to be a parent either.

And of course the governments stats are going to say that there are more 'fatalities' if kids get hold of a gun if their kept in the house, maybe you should look at STORING your guns more securely? shouldn't those who keep guns have gun safes? or lockboxes on high shelves away from where the kiddies can find them?
Maybe you should concern yourself with thinking like your child, where are they going to be?, what are they going to be looking at?, where are their inquisitive natures going to lead them? where do they play hide and seek?
And maybe then you can store your guns in a safe place.

Bleach kills more kids doesn't it? but will you ban that from your house? no, you store it under lock and key.
Kids poke metal things into electricity sockets but will you ban them from your home? no you cover them up to prevent it.

Just my advice if you have a gun AND a child in the house don't keep a loaded gun next to the bed incase of burglars, instead keep the bullets in a seperate place but keep the empty gun handy incase a tresspasser does try his luck.
After all if someones pointing a gun at him will he run or fight? my guess is 99% will run at the sight of a barrel pointed in their direction and they wont chance it if they think its loaded.
And you can sleep well at night knowing your child will only ever touch an empty gun.

But also if you have guns and a child maybe teaching them respect for it should be part of parenting in the US.

As soon as I read title, I knew how this will go. Gun crazy love is something hard to explain to someone outside of USA.

KawRider9
Cars kill waaay more people than guns!

Ban 'em Deano...

Finally some valid argument, cars kill 'way' more people - very definitive and well argument response.

Car death* :
2011 - 32,367
2012 - 34,080

Gun related murders** :
2011 - 8,653
2012 - 8,855

Violent crimes*** :
2011 - 1,144,896
2012 - 1,153,016

Which brings valid point in your argument, we all drive cars, accidents can occur and kill you (in car or out of car), but this brings valid question - for cars you have to register all of them, register all sales, can't drive unlicensed and uninsured car. Why would guns be any different? I would love that they propose insurance on guns, just like we have one for car. Why not?

Apart from never hearing someone driving car into school to do mass murder of kids, there is another thing you forgot to mention - it is rare that car is used as tool for violent crime - gun(s) are almost elusively used for that purpose and are part of that 1.1 million violent crimes. (follow links on bottom for more details) For example, in 2010 guns related deaths are a bit over 31000, but large part of it was suicide (~17,000)

I am just waiting for arguments that guns makes us safer, as that is another fail argument of gun-lovers. It has been (again) proven that more guns means more deaths and crime. ****

So I agree, as guns seems to represent danger, just like cars, all of them should be licensed and insured. Also safety test (like in some states) should be conducted and people should loose rights to carry guns if ever operate the same while intoxicated.

Next time better compare it to bike or something like that...


* en.wikipedia.org...

** www.fbi.gov... e_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls - note, this is just murders, does not include suicides and other gun related deaths (accidents).

*** www.fbi.gov...

**** thinkprogress.org...

I work at a school and so does my wife. I have 2 children that attend this school as well. I am a gun owner and a also have a license to carry a gun in my state. This is a subject with no winners. It is a waste of time to argue one way or the other in my opinion but anyway.....

What we in America have is a SERIOUS mental health crisis that is being ignored and brushed aside. Guns don't kill people, MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE KILL OTHER PEOPLE. No gun owner or non-gun owner who is NOT suffering some sort of mental health issue kills people at a mall, movie or a school. The law of the land is very clear and you can agree or not agree and that is fine with me BUT mental illness is the real issue hear that no one is seeing.

I am fine with people with mental illness being denied a gun and I am even fine with requiring an adult that has a mentally ill child or family member being required to have a gun safe. What I am not fine with is being told that because crazy people with guns kill people that I have my rights trampled on. If you want to change the Constitution then good for you, but STOP trying to "backdoor" the Constitution of the United States of America.

There are lots of places you can live if you are unhappy with America and our Constitution. I will even help you pack.

reply to post by FyreByrd


You have used a study that includes suicide with the "gun stats".

That right there poisons the well.