Fetus of brain dead pregnant woman, "Deformed" and "Abnormal"

reply to post by Pimpintology


Sometimes laws have to be changed to address moral issues. I can not stand your ignorant thinking. Its individuals like I that fought for their beliefs that allows us to appreciate the laws and freedom we have today.

Despite what the 'law' says, this lady left explicit instructions for DNR. She was a paramedic and knows what the healthcare involved is all about. Her husband is also a medic and wants to follow her wishes, the family has also expressed this. Brain tissue dies at an alarming pace after 5 minutes of being deprived of oxygen. She had a pulmonary embolism, a clot in the lungs preventing uptake of oxygen. As a medic myself, I have seen this and it's not pretty. She was without oxygen for almost an hour and despite her DNR, paramedics and the hospital went against the patients wishes and went above and beyond because she was pregnant.
I can understand the thinking but the truth is the fetus was without oxygen for as long as the mother was, if not longer. If the fetus is as deformed as they say after 5 months, coupled with oxygen deprivation for close to an hour or more, there is nothing viable in that fetus. It's sad and unfortunate but ultimately what we're dealing with here is ignorance and needless suffering thrust upon a family wishing to grieve.

Year1
The baby deserves an opportunity. The baby deserves compassion and mercy. What I see is that people are viewing the purposeful killing of him to be the 'merciful thing' in this situation, and in doing so, they send a very powerful message to every deformed or disabled person out there in this world - you are not worthy of life in our world. Is this truly the way you all feel about them, that it would have been better had they not been born or worse still, had had their lives snuffed out simply because of an abnormality? Do you realise that this is what you are saying?

There is something you people are not understanding.

the mother was only 14 weeks pregnant. How can a dead body produce the necessary hormones to develop a fetus? How does a corpse, develop a baby.

We are not talking about simple retardation, we are talking a baby born of a zombie. How well do you think that is going to turn out?

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by windword

 

you don't need to defend your assertion that FBB is putting words in folks mouths. The same moron tried to say that I wanted my uncle dead. LOL, that user is going to be a real peach if they make it to the next election cycle.

No I said you were upset that he was still alive because you said you agreed with him that he should be dead . . .

I share his opinion; he was dead. he was meant to die. The system that demanded extraordinary measures to save him should now be burdened with providing for him.

This is a major point of contention to what Year1 and my viewpoint is. Year1 seems fine with accepting that responsibility. I do not. Thus, you get the gist of my somewhat hyperbolized response.
Do we care to split hairs, or just eat broccoli?

You are just butt hurt because I kept calling you out for making incredibly absurd claims speaking for other members of ATS and some fellow idiots actually believed you.

Now you are going about calling me a moron ?

What clown you are.

-FBB

FriedBabelBroccoli

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by windword

 

you don't need to defend your assertion that FBB is putting words in folks mouths. The same moron tried to say that I wanted my uncle dead. LOL, that user is going to be a real peach if they make it to the next election cycle.

No I said you were upset that he was still alive because you said you agreed with him that he should be dead . . .

I share his opinion; he was dead. he was meant to die. The system that demanded extraordinary measures to save him should now be burdened with providing for him.

This is a major point of contention to what Year1 and my viewpoint is. Year1 seems fine with accepting that responsibility. I do not. Thus, you get the gist of my somewhat hyperbolized response.
Do we care to split hairs, or just eat broccoli?

You are just butt hurt because I kept calling you out for making incredibly absurd claims speaking for other members of ATS and some fellow idiots actually believed you.

Now you are going about calling me a moron ?

What clown you are.

-FBB

as has been posted already...words in peoples mouths. Making an argument where none exists through creative misinterpretation. Nice.

muse7
The local Fox affiliate here in the DFW area has released a statement from the lawyers of the family of the brain dead pregnant woman that is being kept on life support.

We are in receipt of medical records providing more specific information regarding the condition of the fetus

According to the medical records we have been provided, the fetus is distinctly abnormal. Even at this early stage, the lower extremities are deformed to the extent that the gender cannot be determined. The fetus suffers from hydrocephalus. It also appears that there are further abnormalities, including a possible heart problem, that cannot be specifically determined due to the immobile nature of Mrs. Munoz's deceased body.

Source

The statement also mentions that the deformities are a result of the fetus being deprived of oxygen for an indeterminate amount of time.

It's just surprising to me, that a lot of people thought this fetus would develop into a healthy baby, it was deprived of oxygen for an unknown amount of time and has been developing inside a decaying body. It might sound harsh but it's the truth in this case.

It's so deformed that doctors cannot even determine its gender.

I'm no no way religious, but I hear a lot of people say that we should let "God's will" decide the outcome of cases like this.

Well...God would have already let this poor woman and fetus rest in peace, instead of keeping them hooked up to a machine and making this poor man have to suffer and see her brain dead wife every day.

Just what is the moral decision in this case? Is it to let the deformed fetus keep developing inside a decaying body and make it suffer even more once it's born? Or is it simply to let it die along with it's dead mother just like nature intended?

I just hope my home state of Texas grows a conscience and lets this poor man bury his wife and unborn fetus and let's him grieve correctly.

I find it ironic that all the pro-abortion people feel badly for this deformed fetus. Do you all feel bad for the 55 million aborted babies? Or wait, they weren't really alive, but you feel badly for this one fetus because it's somehow different?

bigfatfurrytexan
as has been posted already...words in peoples mouths. Making an argument where none exists through creative misinterpretation.

Nice.

You would have to provide some evidence where you stated you didn't think your uncle should be dead.

You can deny it until the cows come home. The words word typed by you, from your own account.

You can type up the biggest sob story around about how your uncle was going to be rich but got in a motorcycle accident and was resuscitated and had to spend all his wealth on fixing up his most extravagant home to accommodate his disability, but it doesn't change the fact you agree with him that he should have died.

I already quoted you saying he should have died, which means you think he should be dead.

This was your justification for proclaiming another member had declared they were going to provide for this child if it is born.

You can live in your make believe play land, but on the internet people can actually do searches to verify what you typed.

This video accurately depicts my impression of you;


Enjoy defending the pathetic defense of your proclamation when all you had to do was say it was rash and irresponsible.

Pathetic child antics.

-FBB

intrepid
So this is basically a pissing contest between pro-life and pro-choice and this family has to suffer because of it?

Nail on the head there. IMO
As this topic is such a "touchy" one. I will just leave it at that.. and respectfully bow out on this one.

FriedBabelBroccoli
You would have to provide some evidence where you stated you didn't think your uncle should be dead.

You can deny it until the cows come home. The words word typed by you, from your own account.

Sure did. He should be dead. That is what happened: he was dead, and through heroic measures and science was revived. He thinks he should be dead, too.

Of course, you are seeming to struggle with what the word "should" means. Because you then extrapolated it, and inferred that someone was "upset" that he didn't die. Like I said: words in mouth.

To make you more of a joke to talk to (and a transparent troll), you are now moving the goal posts back to what I actually said, minus your inferred extrapolation of that which was never implied. A real peach, I tell ya!

You can type up the biggest sob story around about how your uncle was going to be rich but got in a motorcycle accident and was resuscitated and had to spend all his wealth on fixing up his most extravagant home to accommodate his disability, but it doesn't change the fact you agree with him that he should have died.

I already quoted you saying he should have died, which means you think he should be dead.

This was your justification for proclaiming another member had declared they were going to provide for this child if it is born.

You can live in your make believe play land, but on the internet people can actually do searches to verify what you typed.

This video accurately depicts my impression of you;

Enjoy defending the pathetic defense of your proclamation when all you had to do was say it was rash and irresponsible.

Pathetic child antics.

-FBB

Nothing I said was rash and irresponsible. You have just created inferrences which were never implied so that you could type a few more pages of words that only damage any positive aspects of reputation your account may have. I believe I was pretty clear that your first reply to that post was so far off as to be morose. You chose to tread forward regardless. And I am not the only person in this thread you are doing this with.

Denying ignorance starts with being truthful. What you are doing is not truthful.

What many do not realized is that this so call "case of mercy" is nothing but an experiment using a female death body to see if a fetus can grow and survive birth.

This will bring a new set of pro life issues to benefit nothing but an incredible immoral minority that feed on desperation.

Don't you people get it? this no about a death women wishes, because she is death and can not defend herself, neither the "rights" of a fetus, this nothing but another Frankenstein experiment.

All those that are behind this experiment will burn in hell if one is really out there.

reply to post by muse7


Let the baby live. I hope he/she turns out alright and you all should have to listen to what he/she has to say about your attempts on his/her life. The mother is gone and not coming back but we have a chance to save one life here. Put your stupid politics away and give a little hope. This is not the first time this has happened and the babies didn't come out as monsters. Ultimately though, this baby is alive, to take the mother off life support would kill the baby. Seems like the choice is to kill or not to kill.

rocktsar
reply to post by muse7

 

Let the baby live. I hope he/she turns out alright and you all should have to listen to what he/she has to say about your attempts on his/her life. The mother is gone and not coming back but we have a chance to save one life here. Put your stupid politics away and give a little hope. This is not the first time this has happened and the babies didn't come out as monsters. Ultimately though, this baby is alive, to take the mother off life support would kill the baby. Seems like the choice is to kill or not to kill.

Did you even bother to read the OP?

The fetus is so deformed that its gender cannot even be determined, it suffers from a heart defect as well as hydrocephalus, which is fluid build up inside of the brain.

It was deprived of oxygen for more than an hour.

Why don't YOU put your stupid politics and dogma aside and let this father bury his unborn fetus and dead wife and let him grieve?

reply to post by muse7


I did read it and I don't involve myself in politics nor dogmas. Are we shown proof to the severity of these "deformities". No just hyperbolic rhetoric, "there are some defects, kill it!". Whose to say the baby won't turn out perfectly functional and capable of living a happy life.

muse7

rocktsar
reply to post by muse7

 

Let the baby live. I hope he/she turns out alright and you all should have to listen to what he/she has to say about your attempts on his/her life. The mother is gone and not coming back but we have a chance to save one life here. Put your stupid politics away and give a little hope. This is not the first time this has happened and the babies didn't come out as monsters. Ultimately though, this baby is alive, to take the mother off life support would kill the baby. Seems like the choice is to kill or not to kill.

Did you even bother to read the OP?

The fetus is so deformed that its gender cannot even be determined, it suffers from a heart defect as well as hydrocephalus, which is fluid build up inside of the brain.

It was deprived of oxygen for more than an hour.

Why don't YOU put your stupid politics and dogma aside and let this father bury his unborn fetus and dead wife and let him grieve?

There is a possible heart problem.
Did you even bother to read your own article?

The Munoz and Machado families feel this information is highly private and extremely sensitive, and although we believe it has no legal relevance to the pending litigation . . .

Quite sadly, this information is not surprising due to the fact that the fetus, after being deprived of oxygen for an indeterminate length of time

Whatever keep making things up it's your thread OP.
To hell with the actual wording.

-FBB

Update from CNN an hour ago....
Hospital, family concur that brain-dead Texas woman's fetus 'not viable'
www.cnn.com...

I am pro life after 9 weeks gestation. and believe abortions should be illegal after the first trimester except in extreme cases and never after 22 weeks. After 22 weeks the baby should be delivered live in cases of maternal threat.

That said, lets say the baby wasn't deformed and was physically developing normal. The baby would still be born mentally disabled IMHO.

Here is why.
Healthy fetal brain development is dependent on things this baby will never receive. The sound of it's mothers voice in utero, movement from the mother walking around. Exposure to different degrees of light and other sounds, not much variety in a hospital room. The mothers emotions and changes in heart beat. Diet, science has proven that what food a mother eats affect every thing from the babies on tastes to brain development regarding eating habits. A diet of synthetic nutrients pumped through a tube, isn't going to do that.
I truly believe that developing in the body of a dead woman would cause sever mental problems is the baby was born pysicly normal, but it is not.

Despite being pro- life, I believe this baby is already dead. It won't be able to survive outside the womb. This is not an abortion, it is a natural death. If not for the mother being on life support they both would have died a natural death.

greydaze
Update from CNN an hour ago....
Hospital, family concur that brain-dead Texas woman's fetus 'not viable'
www.cnn.com...

The law states they have to keep her on life support until 24 weeks.

She is currently at 22 weeks. It is unlikely that the trial will be resolved within the two week period at which time it would be legal to disconnect the life support.

the statute prohibiting the withholding of life sustaining measures from a pregnant patient

. . .

The family asked to have her removed from life support, but the hospital refused, citing a state law requiring it to keep pregnant women on life support until the fetus becomes viable -- roughly at 24 weeks.

Munoz is now 22 weeks pregnant.

-FBB