London MET Police call for water cannons ahead of riots

reply to post by Soloprotocol


And as I said, not all were sanctioned at the highest level:

The highest sanction will see Jobseeker's Allowance withdrawn for 13 weeks when, for example, an individual leaves a job voluntarily. This rises to 26 weeks for a second "failure" and 156 weeks for a third

An intermediate sanction for failures such as not actively seeking a job or being available for work. Benefit is initially lost for a month, or 13 weeks for subsequently breaking the rules. Claimants must then reapply

A lower level sanction, resulting in loss of benefit for up to 13 weeks, for failures such as not attending an interview with a jobcentre adviser. Unlike an intermediate sanction, the benefit restarts automatically

- - - - - - -

The latest figures showed that 53% of decisions to withdraw benefit were the result of the lowest level sanction, while 38% were intermediate sanctions and 9% the highest level sanction.

And it is, after all, only a withdrawal of Jobseekers allowance, which is only a part of the raft of benefits people can claim.

If you're not actively seeking a job, or turn down gainful employment, or leave a job willingly then why the hell should you continue to receive Jobseekers allowance? If you can adequately explain that to me, I would be grateful.

It's all very well posting links, Solo, but you don't seem to understand what it is your posting, or indeed claiming.

reply to post by stumason


I do agree with you except that the means of stopping people protesting completely is to frighten them off the streets and one means is to infiltrate protests and turn them deliberately into looking like riots and when people see this type of action they react.

During one of the G whatevers all the windows had been borded up along the route on the banks except 1 and naturally someone made a 'B' line for it and smashed it. Then the police immediately had the 'right' to move in which they did. But Why was it missed and one has to ask and Who exactly smashed it. I believe MI5 and plain clothed police infiltrate these protests and any means of stopping protest will be adopted and ordered by our Government. If one can destroy the peaceful protests and make them look like a warground then others of the public will stay away

Can you honestly say that you think our Government wouldn't work against protesters in order to keep their positions in power secure and also to keep people and foreign trade using the London Banks and City. Any form of civil unrest would jeopardise the outside world's view of how safe the City actual is.

9% of 660,000 is around, well you do the math, 60,000 people sanction for three years...

To Quote Stu.. "Nice try at spin, Solo, but once again you fail to actually either verify this or put it into context. Just because someone get's "sanctioned", that doesn't mean they lose all their benefit. In fact, most only lose a little bit and only a handful have actually lost all their benefit."

I would say 60,000 is slightly more than a handful..

reply to post by stumason


Whichever way you want to look at it, the Tories didn't win the election, no-one did, and that is a basic fact.

But we still ended up with a Tory government. How did that happen?

It happened because they made it happen, not the voting public.

Ok, back on Topic...Water Canons....must be for watering the plants, surely they would turn them on the people...would they?? oh wait....see Norn Ireland.

bastion
First thread so appologies if this is in the wrong place.

Disclaimer: I'm not a conspiracy type but find them interesting to read; however this report marks the biggest militarisation of UK police in their entire history.

Link to report here - www.london.gov.uk...

The Background - The UK has long enjoyed a history of being one of the few countries in the world where police do not carry firearms as standard. They're by no means perfect but it's a world away from judge, jury and executioner roles some other countries have to endure.

Since the government has introduced austerity measures there have been a number of large protests and riots against the policies. As a result of this there have been calls to

The Report
It's best reading it in full, however here's a precís:

- Police acknowledge there will be mass protests and riots this summer due to austerity - however instead of recommending austerity be slowed down they want money to be invested in water cannons, baton rounds, fire arms and the like to quell dissent

- They also acknowledge that water cannons can cause permanent blindness, deafness, serious injury and even death - however justify their deployment on the grounds the other alternative is to use conventional firearms.

- The report also says Chief Constables should be able to deplo them without asking the approval of the home secretary.

This is a very worrying report indeed.

Now last night kind of skim read the report at least twice. At the begging of your thread you stated that the police are preparing for more riots and protests this summer. The report doesn't mention anything like this. IF it does can you tell me what page it's on in case I've missed it

Your second point is about the cannons being used because the other alternative is deadly force using firearms. Again I couldn't find this, so they will use firearms first before using non lethal rubber bullets, stun guns, gas and general police tactics in riot situation to control the trouble

I will apologise of this is on the report I'm not a very good reader but if you can tell me what pages these are on I won't say anything else. But if you can't provide the pages it was written on then your quick description of the report is false

reply to post by Soloprotocol


In the grand scheme of things in a nation of 60+ million people, 60k is a handful. And you're also distorting those figures too, seems to be a trait of yours... Only if the person concerned leaves a job voluntarily for a third time do they get sanctioned for the 3 years and if you ask me, if someone walks out of 3 jobs and expects the state to pick up the tab then they don't deserve JSA.

reply to post by doobydoll


That is one very wonky way of looking at it, if you ignore the basic facts of the matter I highlighted earlier! But, if we're going to be dealing in such simplistic terms, then there is no debate I'm afraid as you're clearly blinkered.

Soloprotocol
Ok, back on Topic...Water Canons....must be for watering the plants, surely they would turn them on the people...would they?? oh wait....see Norn Ireland.

Well, yes - someone didn't read the OP report. They were discussing exactly this.

ThePeaceMaker
I will apologise of this is on the report I'm not a very good reader but if you can tell me what pages these are on I won't say anything else. But if you can't provide the pages it was written on then your quick description of the report is false

Quite - the OP makes some assumptions based on his own prejudices - none of that is actually in the report itself.

stumason
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

In the grand scheme of things in a nation of 60+ million people, 60k is a handful. And you're also distorting those figures too, seems to be a trait of yours... Only if the person concerned leaves a job voluntarily for a third time do they get sanctioned for the 3 years

Bollocks!! i know people who have been sanctioned for 4 weeks for being 10 minutes late in signing on.

reply to post by stumason

That is one very wonky way of looking at it, if you ignore the basic facts of the matter I highlighted earlier! But, if we're going to be dealing in such simplistic terms, then there is no debate I'm afraid as you're clearly blinkered.

Truth IS simple, my friend. Can't argue with the truth, I'm afraid.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Then there is a lesson there - if that is indeed true - Don't be late!. An important skill to learn for those seeking work, I might add.

stumason
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

Then there is a lesson there - if that is indeed true - Don't be late!. An important skill to learn for those seeking work, I might add.

Yeah, dont dare # yourself on the way to the bus stop causing you to turn back. pathetic.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Er, ok..... That's one of the more "inventive" reasons for being late I suppose and deserves some credit, if only for publicly admitting to crapping yourself while waiting for a bus....

There a few who are pushing for water cannon . I keep reading it's none lethal, this is incorrect , if you are close enough it will kill you . There was a man killed in Turkey last year by water cannon . People I've spoken to don't believe there is growth in the economy and don't believe in this CONDEM government . I have little time for the pushes of lies and what short memories the public has when the robbing politicians were caught with their fingers in the public till and still are but hide it well .

They are debating the water cannon because they are expecting more rioting but just don't know when . Better to have them than not is their opinion . Don't get me wrong I don't think people should riot , but the people who do it feel there is no alternative .

We've had two recent shootings in the UK , Dugan was deemed as a lawful killing even though he was not armed at the time of the shooting him dead . The second was in Manchester , again unarmed man shoot in a stolen car . IMO both were unlawful , yes they were probably criminals , but we don't seem to do the same with our politicians who have their fingers in the till . As far as I'm concerned these were executions, they were still human .

I know it won't happen but I just had a funny vision regarding the water cannons and riots. I'd love to see the day LEOs being in water cannons and the rioters/protestors all turn up with shower gel

stumason

In the grand scheme of things in a nation of 60+ million people, 60k is a handful. And you're also distorting those figures too, seems to be a trait of yours... Only if the person concerned leaves a job voluntarily for a third time do they get sanctioned for the 3 years and if you ask me, if someone walks out of 3 jobs and expects the state to pick up the tab then they don't deserve JSA.

I don't know where you get your info from but even IDS admits the DWP have targets that staff must impose sanctions on at least three people per week.

There's been hundreds of cases of vulnerable people being sanctioned as they're easy targets and staff sanctioning anyone they don't like simply to meet targets. It's abused so often over 50% of sanctions are overturned on appeal.

www.cpag.org.uk...

I was personally sanctioned for 'failure to sign on' despite having signed on, having a transcript of my job plan which was signed and officially stamped by the member of staff. I was a full time volunteer with a MSc Applied Mathematics at the time so could hardly be classed as workshy or under qualified.

If people who start riots don't want to get hosed, don't run around destroying public and private property like an imbecile. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation


How many times "rioters" end up being ousted as undercovers and such though. And who knows how many times they have been culprits but were just not caught. A couple of jackasses in a mostly peaceful assembly are being labeled as riots, giving them an excuse to "order people to disperse" and cops using crap tactics like kettling and teargas and mass arrests? I would be concerned if it was in my area, that's for sure....

reply to post by TKDRL


There is always the possibility of that being true in some cases, and I do believe it does indeed happen every now and then, but the majority of the time it's some ignoramus breaking windows and lighting fires for reasons that they themselves do not even know why. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation


Yeah, but a couple of idiots is just a couple of idiots. As someone that likes to partake in protests, I find it disturbing that a couple of idiots show up, undercover cops or not, and it's suddenly labeled a riot. Suddenly the cops are justified in using water cannoncs, and kettling, and teargas, busting heads and arresting people. Don't matter if the vast majority of us are doing nothing but holding signs, we are still considered part of a riot, and fair game.