Immortal Technique : Al-Aqsa and the Knight's Templar

LOVE Immortal Technique!! Star and Flag for the post. You should really check out some of his other stuff. Can't stick around to read all the replies but will be checking back in when I get the chance.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Fair enough; some theories I have seen, actually state that the Templars found Kabbalists texts underneath the temple. Say that these teachings are what was passed down to be embedded in Freemasonic rituals.

VeritasAequitas
Fair enough; some theories I have seen, actually state that the Templars found Kabbalists texts underneath the temple. Say that these teachings are what was passed down to be embedded in Freemasonic rituals.

The main issue I would have with those theories is that Masonry predates the Templars by a few hundred years. If anyone would be teaching someone else it would more likely to be the other way around.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


To your knowledge, when was the beginning ages of Freemasonry? I have seen people date it to the 1600's... Personally, I believe it's much older, and traces back to antiquity, but I would like to know the masonic consensus.

VeritasAequitas
To your knowledge, when was the beginning ages of Freemasonry? I have seen people date it to the 1600's... Personally, I believe it's much older, and traces back to antiquity, but I would like to know the masonic consensus.

Ksig has done a bit more research than I have (see his blog) but I have reviewed many of the same documents and they tend to point towards the 10th century. It could of course predate this further but that is the extent of what we currently have that can be legitimately used for dating purposes.

This was of course the Operative group but some of the symbolism and wording has corollaries to modern Operative Masonry.

There's a fantastic comic book series written by Garth Ennis called The Invisibles. Some of you here may chuckle at that reference, haha. Anyways, one of the plot lines is that the Matrix-Makin-Intergalactic-Dark-Brotherhood-of-Aliens storms Renne de Chateau and uncover the treasure of the Templars which they supposedly uncovered from beneath Solomon's Temple. According to the comic book, the Templar treasure was the mechanically preserved severed head of John the Baptist...hahaha...the head was apparently equipped with the language 'glossolalia' and acted as a maddening effect on all those unworthy.

I have also read that the Templars uncovered something like 92 tons of silver and 70 tons of gold o.O

Will we ever know!?!? It would almost be a bummer to know the answer, because the mystique is so sexy.

Maybe demons were under the temple. Didn't Solomon force demons to build the temple and then he trapped them underground by binding them? I'm sure I got the story wrong somehow... but it could lead you somewhere. I've always wondered why the name was not coincidental...

farthest? Farthest thing from what you would expect? Farthest as in the farthest mankind has gotten to achieving something? Or... Furthest from something, geographically in those days? I guess I would look more into the meaning of the name and why people say it's named that. What people say may not be true but it may give you a clue hopefully.

Maybe someone will ask him one day (iTech)

In one song (Parole?) he says another curious thing but I just took it as artistic license. He says "No more working for the government, coke packagin'." I don't know if he means the US Government. But he's probably just "storytelling" like a lot of musical artists do...

Anyway, thanks for the thread. I knew what it was going to be about from the title.

reply to post by 3n19m470


Personally I think Immortal Technique didn't find it coincidental that the Kabbalah scriptures hidden due to Solomon not wanting them misused, were then found by the Templars who did, apparently, go on to misuse them for black magic, like "prescription pills", this was "the farthest" from what Solomon wanted for the scriptures.

This is just my own interpretation though, I don't think he has ever explained it out right and it's probably up for debate.

As for not "working for the government, packaging coke", I think this is just a reference to his own self realisation that if you are selling drugs in the inner city's, it's all bought from the government in the first place(the famous Scarface scene with Tony being shown the interview of the whistleblower he refused to kill, eventually leading to his own demise). The CIA project wanted to destroy the hoods with narcotics, hiding this fact with "the war on drugs"!

Peace.

I also think the Templars found Kabbalah scriptures inside, and they began practicing this religion in secret. They transformed from what was a Christian order to a Satanic cult who then tried to plunge Europe back into the dark ages through their system of international banking they set up and keeping the nations of Europe in debt to them. Philip the Fair, King of France realized what they were doing and the danger the represented so with the support of the Pope he captured and executed them. Unfortunately he was assassinated before he could finish the job and some remnants of the Templars managed to escape to Scotland and eventually resurfaced as Freemasons.

Love this song, listen to it when I need to get pumped up.

This may be way out of left field, but apparently Al aqsa means something to the effect of "far away," so my own theory is that he believed they discovered technology that came from far away, alien technology.

Goes along with the theory that the ark was some type of alien technology, hence the non-coincidental name. Nothing to back this up, just what I always thought of.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


VeritasAequitas,

The oldest recognized MS's (authenticated manuscripts) from England are for the most part are in possession of the British now. The oldest MS that I am aware of in England is presumed to be from the middle to late 14th century. I'm currently reading a book by Roy Wells, The Rise and Development of Organised Freemasonry. An excellent read if your interested. He goes into very detailed research about this subject and is has very good references.

There is a lot of disagreement about when and where masonry became "speculative" and split from the "operatives", but many "experts" believe that this happened primarily in England in the 17th century. Read about Elias Ashmole for more information about this. But this in no way indicates what was happening earlier and elsewhere in Europe or the Middle East.. In Germany there is some historic information that goes back the the 12th and 13th centuries. Some other later MS's from England give many different histories of masonry and its' start and none of these MS's are identical in what they say.

The esoteric aspect of masonry that many of us are interested in does exhibit evidence of more ancient traditions that were likely transmitted into Europe during the Crusades. The Templars are very likely candidates, but not the only ones. Their "Orders" would be a great place to begin your research for gaining an understanding of their true core beliefs and how they were organized and to whom they affiliated and associated. Once you find this out it will be more clear what their fundamental belief or faith, if you will, is actually founded on.

There is a lot of evidence that even within the Church in Rome that there were contingents that promoted a more "spiritual" and inclusive element than the strict dogmatic stance that was exhibited for many centuries. For example look closely at the patron of the Templars, St Bernard de Clairvaux who established the Cistercian Order and study what his Orders' purpose was. He basically drafted the first French nobles into the "Templars", some of whom were family members. He also crafted and sponsored their "Charter" when it was presented to the Pope. Without this charter they had no authority to operate as a recognized arm of the Papacy.There has always been a tug of war going on for the "Soul" of the church.

I'm not going to go into a long discussion about all it of now, but I want to encourage you and anyone else interested to "broaden" your searches and reading. There are many ancient traditions that have been distilled and passed on to us. It is not always easy or apparent and it is not meant to be. The search and discovery process is a personal quest and not everyone is going to be led to the same conclusions and many won't bother to do the work to find out. Good Luck!

reply to post by CharlieSpeirs


Thanks for the reply bud! I like it.

Here's for anyone interested. I found it at Rap Genius but I think some of their explanations (and some lyrics) may need some help from maybe some of us over here. It's a pretty damn cool site all in all. It's something that's been needed for a long time.

Rap Genius - Point of No Return
You click on each lyric you want to be explained.

reply to post by 3n19m470


No problem pal, and thank you!
Took me about 4 years to piece together an interpretation, so I am quite pleased with myself.


RapGenius is very handy for the reasons you stated.
They also have some great anecdotes of how certain lyrics came to be within some of the descriptions!

sharkman


I'm not going to go into a long discussion about all it of now, but I want to encourage you and anyone else interested to "broaden" your searches and reading. There are many ancient traditions that have been distilled and passed on to us. It is not always easy or apparent and it is not meant to be. The search and discovery process is a personal quest and not everyone is going to be led to the same conclusions and many won't bother to do the work to find out. Good Luck!

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I thank you for sharing some info and broadening my reading searches, especially the tip towards Elias Ashmole

This guy dug around in the Ashes of the Past looking for Bacon it would seem:

Elias Ashmole (23 May 1617 – 18 May 1692) was a celebrated English antiquary, politician, officer of arms, astrologer and student of alchemy. Ashmole supported the royalist side during the English Civil War, and at the restoration of Charles II he was rewarded with several lucrative offices.

Ashmole was an antiquary with a strong Baconian bent for the study of nature.[1] His library reflected his intellectual outlook, including works on English history, law, numismatics, chorography, alchemy, astrology, astronomy, and botany. Although he was one of the founding members of the Royal Society, a key institution in the development of experimental science, his interests were antiquarian and mystical as well as scientific. He was an early Freemason, although the extent of his involvement and commitment is unclear. Throughout his life he was an avid collector of curiosities and other artifacts. Many of these he acquired from the traveller, botanist, and collector John Tradescant the Younger. Ashmole donated most of his collection, his antiquarian library and priceless manuscripts to the University of Oxford to create the Ashmolean Museum.

Time to open the doors to the Ashmolean Museum ?

The Ashmolean Museum (in full the Ashmolean Museum of Art and Archaeology) on Beaumont Street, Oxford, England, is the world's first university museum. Its first building was built in 1678–1683 to house the cabinet of curiosities that Elias Ashmole gave Oxford University in 1677. The museum reopened in 2009 after a major redevelopment. In November 2011 new galleries focusing on Egypt and Nubia were also unveiled.

Check the Links below under "Highlights" for a list of some items.
Yet another interesting "Eli" in this Blind Man's Book.

To all of those wondering to when the Freemasons date back, I have a question.

One time I had an oral exam with my teacher and it was about secret societies or something like that. He asked me; "do you know when they originated? ", and me not having the slightest clue really , I said no. He then told me that they date back to about 1600 and that they were really stone masons who built walls and such. I left the exam feeling dumb, not knowing the answer to his question, and spent my day wondering if they don't actually date back to much older times, think BC?

I guess it depends on how you view the Freemasons, I always think of them as TPTB, modern day Templars and such.
The ones who rule and have always ruled.

On topic, I believe that there were scrolls with information (call me a nut, but ; magic?) hidden in Solomon's temple, and that as others in this thread have said, the name al-Aqsa means the furthest and the information in the scrolls may have been used in a way the farthest away from what the original writers intended.

Sorry for my English, I'm not as old as most of the people on here I think. I'm 16 and I hope saying that won't get me banned haha!

reply to post by JohnDoee

The exact origin of Freemasonry is unknown. The late 1600's is the earliest existing records of a Lodge to date. It's not hard to surmise that this Lodge and others existed prior to this, whether speculative or not, is another matter, and one know one can answer as there exists no records.

Going farther back in history, there are many theories and legends to the origins of the Masonic fraternity, and some of the biggest culprits are Masons themselves, but it is often made up or based upon misconceptions or false pretenses. The legend and ritual of Freemasonry (Ancient Craft Masonry = Craft Lodge = Blue Lodge) surrounds the building of King Solomon's Temple.

TPTP? I refer to that as "the people to blame" as it seems to me to be an overused catchphrase that people use when trying to scapegoat. I personally would love to find the smoking gun that links us to the Templars, but no such currently exists. We're dealing with a young Grand Lodge and standard system that is coming in contact with other systems of speculative Masonry and it is trying to also spread from England to France and the rest of the European continent. I truly believe that Ramsay's Oration, the first mention of Masons tied to crusading knights -- St. John not Templars, and after that it was a wildfire of new groups that were trying to increase their pedigree and legitimacy by making claims they had no evidence to support.

The medieval Templars are even a topic of great discussion as so much is not known about them and so, as it often goes, the imagination is allowed to roam and "fill in the blanks". After the Templar suppression, Inquisition, and disbandment, from 1307-1314, it's all speculation and when the Ottoman's destroyed the central record repository (that was in possession of the Knights Hospitalliers on Malta), that really ended all future ability to do proper research into the depths of Templary. I do have a gut feeling that the Vatican has some documents in their Archives, but that's just personal belief.

Don't worry about your age, and nothing you've said is anywhere close to causing trouble.

reply to post by KSigMason

The late 1600's is the earliest existing records of a Lodge to date. It's not hard to surmise that this Lodge and others existed prior to this, whether speculative or not, is another matter, and one know one can answer as there exists no records.

Do you think that it could go back even as far as Ancient Egypt and the Hermetic brotherhood or Priest-craft?

reply to post by KSigMason

One correction to my post, I meant to say late 16th century not 1600s.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

I could think it, but to prove it is another matter.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Ashmole was definitely a "Speculative Mason" and not an "Operative Mason. The documentation is very clear about him. While the current "extant" evidence is sparse it is very clear that his affiliation was of a "Speculative" nature. He was a founding member of the Royal Society, an Alchemist, Astrologer, Botanist and contemporary of Newton and Lilly. These affiliations in my mind where not just a passing hobby. Newton was a practicing alchemist and astrologer and Lilly was a renowned astrologer. Newton actually wrote more about astrology and alchemy than actual scientific discoveries and theories, although you will have to dig a bit to find this out. The Father of the Theory of Gravity was deeply involved in the hermetic and esoteric arts.

In Britain, some speculative masons had a very long tradition of affiliation with esoteric practitioners. There are more of these kinds of things to be discovered if you wish to peel back the layers carefully.

You must understand that after Henry VIII's successful defeat of Catholicism in Britain the Gnostics in Britian and Europe made a resurgence, if you will. The Roman Catholic Church's attempt to eradicate them had not completely succeeded even though they had decimated the Bogomils in the 13th centuy, the Cathars in the 13th century and the Templar's in the 1300's they in no way destroyed the root of the tree.

The rise of Masonry, Rosicrucian thought and even some of the church's own religious orders still carried the seed of Gnosis. Paulician based Gnostic teachings have always been denounced by the Western Roman Church and wherever it has been discovered or suspected of existing it has been marginalized and destroyed if possible. The church has never completely extinguished the flame and they never will be able to.

my friends there is much to discover, but you will find that none of it is new. It is very ancient and often marginalized and dismissed or denounced as un-truth.

X-Files "The Truth is Out There"

a reply to: KSigMason

I am not asking for 'empirical' proof; only your reasoning for why you would believe so if you do. Still care to elaborate?