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It is ironic that you claim communicating with all females is like talking to a wall or a five year old, when your ability to spell or use grammar is so handicapped. If you speak as you write, then it is no wonder effective communication is a problem for you. That was my point in response to your statement , perhaps a bit too subtle for you to have caught.
Nothing here clarifies your position on “who is attracted to who?”. Both parties willingly went forward toward the other. No woman tore these men away from their activities against their will- no more than the men did for the women.
Just as I could say I often find power an attractive element in an individual, if I feel he/she abuses that power, or has other unattractive parts of their character, that attraction is nullified. I cease to feel it.
A man may find physical beauty attractive, but if the beautiful woman turns out to have other parts of her behaviour or character that he finds repulsive, he ceases to feel that attraction.
The result then, is that attractions between individuals are not predictable.
I never said any such thing!!!! I spoke of subjects of attraction. Attraction is not love, money is not love. Love does not play any part in any part of this subject.
This is a rather crazy rant. You know nothing of me. I have a business of my own that I created and run myself, in a foreign country, for which I had to learn the language and culture on my own without help. I have three children I raised to be successful and educated. I have been married to the same man for more than 20 years (my only marriage), and left my country and family to support him. He had no job, no home, no car, no money when we met- it was I who helped him get to where he is now through loving support and advice.
None of your silly notions have anything to do with me. As I said, HUMANS are all drawn to power (look up Nietzsche, and the Will to Power, consider his assertions). Sometimes it is the woman in a relationship who wishes to learn how to be powerful, from a powerful man… sometimes it is the other way around.
In any case, it is not parasitism, it is interdependence and exchange.
Absolutely not. The adage “opposites attract” can often be observed for that reason. The Marilyn Monroe/Arthur Miller type of couplings and partnerships are not rare.
I am not familiar with the "husband elevator joke". If you are not aware of the changes that have happened for women in society over the centuries, I am not going to spend my morning educating you on history. It has evolved greatly and continues to do so. That is not getting nowhere, from my perspective.
That is another crazy rant. The subject of females as vessels pertain to the needs people have to give, to project, themselves.
The idea is describing something we experience each day, right now. Why do you write out your thoughts and opinions here, on a forum? Why do you feel the need to put it somewhere, to get it out, for others to take in?
The fact that you have that need gives this forum, this “vessel” a reason for being and a value just in it’s capacity to receive that output you have.
This forum/vessel is not “nothing” it is providing a valuable service for you. And it is not sexual- what you project within it is not physical, it is mental. Your mind has needs too.
It needs your input and that of others, in order to exist (without posters it will die out)... does that make it "parasitic" in regards to you? Or is this an exchange???
Is it starting to dawn on you yet?
So who is attracted to whom? They are mutually attracted to eachother, they just have different means of going about that.
Off course they are and can be, our whole society in some aspects hinges on just that very fact.
Oh yes you did. You just used different wordings. And now your trying to mince words with me. You should like tottaly quit it Ok.
Sure if you look at it from that perspective and overlook a mountain of other evidence then that's what it is...But in all we shall see. Like i said you all evolved side by side, the chicken and egg. But even that you remove a peg and the whole thing falls down...Jenga Jenga Jenga...I suppose its the name of the game, not the jenga board game, the real life game you all play. I call that game love and life.
Ya whatever. The stars in the sky will all fade one day, and so will the sun. This whole thing is more then meaningless. What are you religious or something, if you substitute the world "vessel" for "fancy" you would likely get a better picture of yourself. All value is perceived, and I perceive that this whole thing has very little value.
Like the chicken and Egg...The Sugar Daddy and The Female... The Physical and The Mental. All are ultimately part of one thing as well which evolved side by side. One process leads to another, the ebb and flow of things, pull and push, it is how things change, and ultimately how things stay the same. One can not exist without the other.
Bluesma
galadofwarthethird
talking with most of the female gender is already like talking to a wall or a 5yr old, and never mind that you may as well be in a different dimenshion when bringing up certain subject
After what I already read from you, "dude", I would suggest that experience might stem from the fact that you simply have some difficulties in cognition. It is possible women may have the distinct impression they are talking to a wall, or five year old in you.
The maternal types like me probably can't help trying to break it all down into smaller pieces for you, as one would for a small child, to help you with your "dimenshion" digestion.
For one you mentioned that these women want "love" in return for "nothing"
They asked for money. Love and money are not the same thing.
Two- what do you identify with? If you were to share yourself with another, what would that mean giving?
Are you your money?
Are you your body?
Are you your will?
Would your "gift of self" be material, physical, or mental?
This is just the beginning of the discussion of females as vessels to be filled.
edit on 24-1-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)
Well, if one eliminates all the childish name calling and blather, we can dig up some sort of answer to the topic! Unfortunately, it contradicts your statements which took us in that direction- which were that it was the male who was attracted to the female, and she is simply taking advantage of him in a parasitic way. Now you agree with my view instead?
You can predict that a percent of females or males will react in this or that fashion, but you cannot make the same predictions for specific individuals.
Generalizations are extremely unreliable in predicting and judging individuals, in act and even more so in motivation. Your faulty guesses about me and my behavior and history is an example of how far such ideas can lead you astray. Text
I never said any such thing!!!! I spoke of subjects of attraction. Attraction is not love, money is not love. Love does not play any part in any part of this subject.
My exact words, copied and pasted: They asked for money. Love and money are not the same thing.
How can you interpret that to mean love and money are the same thing?
In any case, it is not parasitism, it is interdependence and exchange.
Who is the “you all” refereing to here? Women and men ? Human beings? Entities that live and that love? If you are exempt from this reference, what are you exactly ???
If you are an alien, or a rock, that might explain your lack of knowledge about key thinkers and concepts of our civilization. On the other hand, you just might be a kid.
The fact that you have that need gives this forum, this “vessel” a reason for being and a value just in it’s capacity to receive that output you have.
Subjective value. If you have no desire or need for this service, then why come here? Has nothing to do with religion (or whether I am “fancy”). Demand and supply. If there is a demand for something, it gains a value.
Exactly my point- judging the seasons as good or bad can be done too, if you wish. But that will always remain a personal, subjective, moral judgement. All things evolve for a reason- to further life.
galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Bluesma
Well, if one eliminates all the childish name calling and blather, we can dig up some sort of answer to the topic! Unfortunately, it contradicts your statements which took us in that direction- which were that it was the male who was attracted to the female, and she is simply taking advantage of him in a parasitic way. Now you agree with my view instead?
I always agreed with your view. You just seem to have a hard time grasping things, maybe you should re read the previous banter. And is it is quite parasitical, but all of that is just depended on a variety of factors including how ignorant the people in question are of some things. And generally like you said the female is attracted to a male purely on social complex issues and survivability in that ecosystem ie society, beyond that it is merely up to them to put definitions to the things there doing and are going to do. You remove that, not only does the whole thing falter but falls short by lightyears, for instance what is the difference from a woman being attracted to money as apposed to a woman being attracted to wealth or any of the other things you said?
Its all just mincing words, and not only have. And like I said females evolved under that paradigm but the majority would not be able to function or be any other way, so yes you may call it willpower, others call it Sugar Daddies, it all just depends merely on situational circumstances, but the outcome of the people in question will remain pretty much the same and so it would in who and what there attracted to. Now who for centuries have been attracted to whom?
Like I said its a chicken and egg thing, its a preset predestined social complex, in some people for instance you and many other females it is practically written in your genes, so ya its quite possible to know who most females will fall in love with, once you know all the machinations of the thing they like to call love, and the thing they like to call love is merely an extension of a survival and adaptability process, also a social complex, the ladder climbing kind for many. Hence things are spiced up...But it all depends on just what you call a thing, its all basically semantics on a metal projection planetary scale. Of which you and most females would not be aware of, and if you were you would go all doe eyed on the subject. In all its just semantics.
But listen here Bluesma, I suppose I must be more nice to you people and quit calling you mean words. But technically that is what I see you as, and I mean! if you want! I can avoid all that and not call you that. Yet till you obviously quit bull#ing around and lying I will keep thinking it, and even after that most likely. That is generally the proper protocols when dealing with such. It shall stand. I think this whole thing has gone far enough and indulging females on such fronts has lead to some serious mindtrips as a whole and serious cognitive dissonance in there mental makeup, most of it negligible but still annoying none the less. So again like I said I have agreed with you the whole time, and yes it is parasitic. But all of that just depends on your vantage point on looking at the whole thing, I suppose that to is another game of cosmic semantics. So ya! For you it is what and were you should be, but to think that its the whole of it or others would see it as you do, is just stupid.
Now you should admit that there is very minimal deferential complexity between Sugar daddies and Powerful men. And then you can go away as there is nothing you can do or say in such a matter that would matter or change thing. There is little more point in arguing with you or chatting on this thread about it. Actions speak louder then words, and all you and most females actions speak louder then a hundred thousand years of words and thoughts and believes you all have on this subject.
You can predict that a percent of females or males will react in this or that fashion, but you cannot make the same predictions for specific individuals.
Yes you can. Why the hell do you say you cant? Its not hard either you dont even have to be a supergenious or have a supper computer compute the probabilities on that. Its like this...Look around you! Look at all the types of people, individual people get with. Now can you imagine any other person they would be it if you remove your perception of what you think it is they should or could be with? The answer is no, you can not imagine it.
The world and everything around you including love and romance is the way it is for a reason, in fact you said it yourself using other word. Its like the fact in this thread about the OP and the girl in question going to that one Sugar Daddy site to get some. Lets just put it this way, and like you yourself said in other posts. Lets just imagine that If that girl in the OP were rich or wealthy and had everything she ever wanted. Whom do you think she would put the time and energy and effort into moving towards?...The answer is. The same guys or same type of guys that she is now in that Sugar Daddy site, the only difference only being how she would go about it.
So yes you can predict and pretty dam accurately who females both on a mass scale, and individual scale would not only be attracted to but pretty much everything else. Its not nowhere near as an impossibility as you think it is. Far from it.
Generalizations are extremely unreliable in predicting and judging individuals, in act and even more so in motivation. Your faulty guesses about me and my behavior and history is an example of how far such ideas can lead you astray. Text
Negative! You merely see yourself in a different light, and I can list the reasons of that as well. Also I have found out that, and now doubt even you would notice this phenomenon that a great majority of the generalizations people have are pretty spot on, and not only that are there for a reason. On a day to day basis you would have many if not hundreds such generalizations the majority of which you would not even be aware of.
In fact generalization is how the brain works as to save energy in putting out to many computations and hold on to to many ever changing facts, in females being a more social societal created/evolved animal that fact would be much more so, then then in males. In fact in the majority there whole outlook and perspective on the world and everything around them is based on generalizations which they have, and the funny part is that the majority of those generalizations have not even been placed there by them, how many generalizations do you think even something as silly as the Oprah show put out, now imagine that strewn over centuries and you will get a better view of things.
Over all generalizations is a form of compressed data, not unlike a zip file in the mind. Its also a societal economic trait, a function of the brain and mind when it can not deal with many unknown factors. Now how many generalizations do you think I have been labeled under by the females and other who have read this thread?
I never said any such thing!!!! I spoke of subjects of attraction. Attraction is not love, money is not love. Love does not play any part in any part of this subject.
Love! Attractions! Money! To some they are all the same thing, even if they dont want to admit it. You admitted as much pages back, so why bother to mince words and bones about it now. Listen its getting annoying talking to you, I think I will talk to the wall and get better and a more varied conversation.
My exact words, copied and pasted: They asked for money. Love and money are not the same thing.
How can you interpret that to mean love and money are the same thing?
I dont know what is the difference between a Sugar daddy and a powerful man in charge of his own destiny. The answer is...Not much, by definition they are the same thing. In reality they are the same thing. In your mind however due to the fact that you dont want to look at some things as you would have to call into account your whole world and makeup...Well! then they are different. But in all its just another case of mental semantics and circumstances. You can interchange any of the two and there meanings on any given day. Yet the results will likely remain the same. So yes, Love and Money are the same thing to a great majority of females, they just have different way of going about to rationalize that.
Now if you were male you would off course get a different worded answer. I mean sure woman are all about love and not money. That is why you see every dude with money having a bunch of women in tow and the guy without money having none. Because women are about love not money... Does that make sense to you? You see only females have the option of thinking of the two as separate. A biological evolutionary trait in itself which reflects itself in a mental contradiction. I could explain it better to you but you seem kind of dense and I really dont feel like it.
In any case, it is not parasitism, it is interdependence and exchange.
Circumstantial differences lead to circumstantial outcomes. What I am trying to say it involves a bunch of factors, including blind luck. Be sure that if some force were to come into to your life and by magic remove certain thing or shift things around, you to and your whole world will come crashing down and pretty fast...Another somewhat like as you female I used to chat with for a bit called this and what you are experiencing. "Competence in the moment" I probably should not have went and freaked out on her...She was at least entertaining even if she was a vile evil feminist. Not like you, your boring, whats your problem? Are you trying deliberately to annoy me and bore me,with all your make believe nonsense?
Who is the “you all” refereing to here? Women and men ? Human beings? Entities that live and that love? If you are exempt from this reference, what are you exactly ???
You know what I have decided that I dont have to answer any of that. You seem to be answering very little of my questions and completely ignore others..So ya! But! By "you all" I mean "you all" And yes you are included in that.
If you are an alien, or a rock, that might explain your lack of knowledge about key thinkers and concepts of our civilization. On the other hand, you just might be a kid.
lol Me! Ok whatever, listen I dont think there would be one thing about you that would be a mystery. Stay in your box and mental constructs and things shall be OK...OK! Because that what you are, a house cat looking at the world through a stained glass window being feed everything and knowing nothing but what your are being feed. And besides I wish I was a kid, things were much funner back then.
The fact that you have that need gives this forum, this “vessel” a reason for being and a value just in it’s capacity to receive that output you have.
OK whats with you and "vessel" thing? You have repeated that word time and time again. If you read any of the above you should know by now that the whole vessel thing, well its just something that is predisposed, most females are not vessels that need to be filled. That like the whole getting man to act first before dating scenarios is just an act in the play.
But fine if you want to continue down that route. Now if you were a vessel I would say you are an insufficient vessel, and considering you just may be the best most societies put out, that says a lot. But anyways its your wording not mine. The majority of females seem to get off that stuff anyways. Vessel Shmesale.
Subjective value. If you have no desire or need for this service, then why come here? Has nothing to do with religion (or whether I am “fancy”). Demand and supply. If there is a demand for something, it gains a value.
OK! Jeez! Got it! Your another self sufficient vessel that needs to be filled. Go on about being all vessel like and such and stuff. You and the girl in the OP are so totally like empty vessels. Just waiting along for somebody to fill you, or whatever. Want to take bets on how fast at least the girl in the OP is going to be "filled" by her Sugar Daddy? Totally mysterious happenings no doubt.
OK! Mrs empty vessel. You seem to have another problem then her. You should be careful least you become another bored housewife trolling the interwebs. Its like we dont have enough of those around..Jeez. You know I can insult you till you go away. But why dont you just admit that your incorrect on a bunch of things, then go away.
Exactly my point- judging the seasons as good or bad can be done too, if you wish. But that will always remain a personal, subjective, moral judgement. All things evolve for a reason- to further life.
Nah not really. Have you asked yourself this. Just how much of your personal, subjective, moral judgement and views do you have in common or the same with other females. Somewhere around 87% I would guess. You all are so original. And now you all want to be different just like everybody else.
But yes told you we agree on a lot of things, its just a matter of semantics.
Also the fact is that yes I was right, if I wasn't you would not have any problems or issues with this whole thing. Maybe you should do as you mother thought you and only argue with the dudes that would be more susceptible to your arguments, you know, that's what husbands, and other such dudes are for. They would be totally impressed by all that you said and not think your completely just a indulged ignoramus. I mean if it wasn't for that, how else would a majority of you people be right? When you are so clearly wrong on a majority of subjects.
All things evolve for a reason after all.
And generally like you said the female is attracted to a male purely on social complex issues and survivability in that ecosystem ie society…
what is the difference from a woman being attracted to money as apposed to a woman being attracted to wealth or any of the other things you said?
I suppose I must be more nice to you people and quit calling you mean words. But technically that is what I see you as, and I mean!
If that girl in the OP were rich or wealthy and had everything she ever wanted. Whom do you think she would put the time and energy and effort into moving towards?...The answer is. The same guys or same type of guys that she is now in that Sugar Daddy site, the only difference only being how she would go about it.
Love! Attractions! Money! To some they are all the same thing, even if they dont want to admit it. You admitted as much pages back, so why bother to mince words and bones about it now.
OK whats with you and "vessel" thing? You have repeated that word time and time again. If you read any of the above you should know by now that the whole vessel thing, well its just something that is predisposed, most females are not vessels that need to be filled. That like the whole getting man to act first before dating scenarios is just an act in the play.
But fine if you want to continue down that route. Now if you were a vessel I would say you are an insufficient vessel, and considering you just may be the best most societies put out, that says a lot.
“You people” is who???
Like I said, taking the group of females who do this, applying this state, one can come up with probabilities for a percentage, but not predict the individual.
But there would be higher probabilities that a larger percentage of women who do this, if in that situation, would not be going to the same men.
If one looks at the young women born into money, they go out with good looking boys, with or without money. Having security, not needing a man of strong will and character, they can focus more on physical aspects of beauty.
It may be the same to some, it may be the same to you, but it is not the same to me, and I have been clear about that.
The danger in mixing up these concepts is misreading others intentions. A woman attracted to you is not necessarily in love with you. Giving a woman money is not giving a woman love.
Making such mistakes can cause a lot of disappointment and hurt… probably make someone a bitter sexist grudge holder.
Here you begin to confirm what I am saying- in being a vessel for you, we obviously are not talking about sex, because that cannot be done here. What it is you wish I would be better at "taking in" for you? Your thoughts, ideas, convinction..will? To do what you say, agree with you? Swallow it all?
Here we get to the other types of demands that exist out there, and that many men are attracted to- a woman who will swallow his (in this case, at least) bull#.
Just because she isn’t having sex with a man, that doesn’t mean he isn’t getting pleasure out of telling her what to do, when where and wearing what…that she is wide eyed an agreeing with all he says, being “enlightened” by his wisdom.
I will not be as sexist as you have been and claim all men are unavoidably looking for or attracted to that specific sort of reception, many other factors are involved in individual attraction… but many find this desireable. As apparently you know intimately.
Never claimed I’d be your deep throat for your bull#, so you weren’t deceived. And if you have trouble finding a woman that will, it is definitely because what you have to share isn’t wise, or even mature.
Most of that is so self contradictory, it is a waste of time to show so.
On the question of being a "vessel" for someone- A psychological term. Having someone who "gets" you. That person you like to be around because they "get" you. To get is to receive. To take in. To be a container for.
Many men value having another individual who gets them- who understands what they think, feel, need, want, intend. (most people in general do... but here we are talking about what a specific type of exchange). Control is one way of experiencing another "getting" you. When they obey you, you witness feedback that they heard and understood your will.
Many men value having another individual who gets them- who understands what they think, feel, need, want, intend. (most people in general do... but here we are talking about what a specific type of exchange). Control is one way of experiencing another "getting" you. When they obey you, you witness feedback that they heard and understood your will.
This is something a man can get in return for their money, and some enjoy it. Even if there is no sex involved. And especially if it is someone who enjoys power. Love isn't needed for that sort of exchange.
...and some guys bitch and moan that no women ever "get" them, because they are all stupid ninnies. (without actually asking themselves if there might be a problem in the way they present and express themselves instead....). Can't be you,huh? MUST be half of the human race, the entire female gender, of course! *eye roll *
galadofwarthethird
I have actually never heard a guy say that women dont get them. But I have heard plenty of women use that line.
talking with most of the female gender is already like talking to a wall or a 5yr old, and never mind that you may as well be in a different dimenshion
Or do I need to call you more mean names before you get the picture?
Off course love is needed for that, what you describe is love
Here you go then-
Calling people names is an obstacle to communication, not an aid. Most people figure that out around five years old. The names and insults you have towards me, your opinion of me, simply has nothing to do with the subject of discussion. (but you can refer to this quote too, as an example of a man complaining that a woman isn't "getting" him )
I described exchange of power for money. That is not love for me. The women in the article make it clear that they do not consider that love either. With your definition of love, then if you are employed, you have a love affair with your employer.
I never said any such thing!!!! I spoke of subjects of attraction. Attraction is not love, money is not love. Love does not play any part in any part of this subject.
Hell, I must admit, I find power and wealth very attractive in a man...I associate them with characteristics like will power, self discipline, force of character, possessiveness, hard working, focused..... traits that would make a good partner, protector, father of children. That may not always be reliable, but it gets me softened up subconsciously.
"Just admit that there is little to no discernible difference between money wealth or power, and as such for some, ie including you and others the majority of females, that there is no difference but a technical one, and there would be no difference other then semantics between love and money depending on factors most of which social. You may call it whatever you want, but ultimately it's just words expressing the same thing"
galadofwarthethird
Well that is not gender specific, that is not even generally specific to any men, that is only me specific. It can not be construed to any general term of men. The rest of what you said is just a bland statement on communication which serves no purpose but the obvious. You may as well have said that you get wet when you jump in water. To that and what you said I would respond...DUH!
Seems the only way some people would be able to grasp some things, there a bit thick concerning some things. It serves its purpose, and that purpose is to grb there attention.
Listen here, by the fact that you changed you wording and constantly contradicting what you said the first or second time, its obviously your just bull#ing or faking. In fact you seem pretty fake, in fact your not even a real frenchy, your some sort of fake frenchy.
like I said you may try to mince words but you already said money, power all of that = love, the fact that you may have used other words makes no difference, after all can you have power, wealth, without money? No!
To say your statement of men with money and wealth are some sort of demi gods in willpower is way incorrect.
Consent that I am right in this, then you can go away as you wasting my time, the few minutes it took to write this up I want back. Unless you like arguing with strange dudes about absolutely nothing, I may even start thinking you have a thing for this sort of thing.
3u40r15m
If they had a Cougar Mommy site I'd sign the hell up....edit on 15-1-2014 by 3u40r15m because: (no reason given)
You said you have never heard of a man saying that- so I showed you an example of a man saying that- you happen to be a man and said that in the same post. Yes, I think that what I said is rather simple and obvious, and it does seem strange that you argued against it, but I was kind, I broke it down and explained instead of just calling you a name.
If someone is answering you, that means they are giving you attention already. You have had my attention from the beginning, and before you fell into fits of childish name calling and insults. Those have just been wasted letters on the posts.
I have changed ways of explaining the same thing, because I find that if a person doesn't understand what you are saying, you might be approaching from an angle they can't relate to. It is best to try from a different one. Use different words, other examples. As you can see above, it is effective. Wording makes a difference. The concept didn't change, only the wording.
If you were more knowledgeable in philosophy and psychology, you would have grasped right away what I was refering to with the terminology of "vessel". I did not know you were lacking that knowledge. When you argued that, it became clear you had no idea what it meant, so I explained for you.
Go back and read my own history which I included- I married a man with no job, no money, no home. I supported him financially and emotionally, and aided him to find and build his own career. Yes, love can exist without money.
I must admit, I find power and wealth very attractive in a man... Attraction is not love, money is not love.
To be attracted to something and to be in love with it, are NOT THE SAME THING. As I explained, power and wealth can be a product of a strong will, which makes it an attention grabber. But grabbing ones attention is not worth much. It is a second look, it is superficial.
One can also observe a strong will existing in a man, without him having wealth and power yet. As I did with my husband. We were young, and it was still a potential.
You exaggerate with your demi-gods characterization. But your example does not show any lack of will power. Will power is the ability to go after and do what you want.
What you want.... as opposed to "what others want you to do", or "what your society, or religion, wants you to do."
That is why it is just the first point of interest to a woman- it is not enough to find a mate who goes after what he wants, it is finding one that has the same wants as yourself!!!!! "DUH!" as you so like to say.
The opposite of a guy with will power is one that does everything he thinks others want him to, but spends his time being a whiny, bitter, passive aggressive child because he doesn't have what he really wants. That is the ultimate turn off.
Yes, I find the challenge of effective communication interesting. I grew up with a retarded sibling, and work with handicapped people, emotionally traumatized people, and even animal training as a lucrative hobby on the side. You incarnate almost all those challenges in one, LOL! I have sympathy for people with difficulties, that just need someone to make the effort.