Fukushima radiation… what you need to know and why

reply to post by losthighway


Rofl!

Your Posting is a good Evidence of your lack of knowledge
but this is Okay, we are here to grow together!

But please ask yourself: "What do i know about how the Japanese
Government and the Japanese Nuclear Complex handle this Accident
regarding the flow of Information"?

Do you know how many so called "Grasrootmovements"
came into being after the Explosions in Daiichi?

Do you know how many Studies, Reports and Investigations
got published in the last 1.000 Days?

Do you know how many Hours the national TV
spend for this Accident, the Radio or how
many News-Article was seen alone in the big Newspapers?

Do you know how many People participated in the
Anti-Nuclear Movement here in Japan?

I bet you can't provide a proper Answer but as i said
"this is Ok"!

Fukushima is already now one of the best investigated Events
in the human History.

PS: The Soviets/ Russians done nothing
or mostly useless things in Chernobyl.

Human0815
reply to post by losthighway

 

Rofl!

Your Posting is a good Evidence of your lack of knowledge
but this is Okay, we are here to grow together!

But please ask yourself: "What do i know about how the Japanese
Government and the Japanese Nuclear Complex handle this Accident
regarding the flow of Information"?

Do you know how many so called "Grasrootmovements"
came into being after the Explosions in Daiichi?

Do you know how many Studies, Reports and Investigations
got published in the last 1.000 Days?

Do you know how many Hours the national TV
spend for this Accident, the Radio or how
many News-Article was seen alone in the big Newspapers?

Do you know how many People participated in the
Anti-Nuclear Movement here in Japan?

I bet you can't provide a proper Answer but as i said
"this is Ok"!

Fukushima is already now one of the best investigated Events
in the human History.

PS: The Soviets/ Russians done nothing
or mostly useless things in Chernobyl.

edit on 14-1-2014 by Human0815 because: spell and chane

edit on 14-1-2014 by Human0815 because: more questions

"Fukushima is already now one of the best investigated Events
in the human History." I almost choked on that one.

If its so well investigated then please answer the following questions.

1. Exactly how much radiation is being leaked out in to the area and ocean?

2. When will the site be fully contained ; ie when will there be no more leakage???

3. The most important question of them all, Can you please tell me precisely where the 3 coriums in the melted reactors are located.

4. In what century will the coriums finally be safe enough to get close and be able to be dug out?

5. Why did Tepco initially tell the world that the 3 reactors were safely in cold shut down when they were in fact in full blown uncontrolled meltdown?

6. In what century will the people who live in the exclusion zone be allowed to return home?

7. What will be the effect of continued radiation leaking into the atmosphere and ocean for centuries??

That's a few of the easy ones..... have at it.



Fukushima is uncharted territory.

There is no possible way anyone can claim that Fukushima is over.... it's going to continue for centuries.

Pro- nukers rush to the defense and claim that Fukushima is under control and every thing is going to be just fine because its been almost 3 years and no body is glowing on the dark yet.... they like to ignore the fact that this is most likely going to continue for thousands of years.

RickinVa

Do you have any idea of how much radiation is coming out of Fukushima? NO

Do You have any idea of when the site will be contained? NO

Most importantly of all........ can you tell me where the 3 melted coriums are currently located?? NO

So until you can answer those 3 questions, the topic is alive in my opinion!



until you can answer those 2 questions, then we will continue the discussion.

Fukushima is uncharted territory.

edit on 14-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Yes, Fukushima is uncharted Territory but it is not absolute Darkness

We know how much Radiation is ca. coming out from Daiichi,
the Plan estimate at least 40 Years for the whole Dismantling of the NPS
and also a Yes for your last Question: i think we know where the molten Fuel is located!

Also i didn't want to stop your Discussion but my first Posting was based
on your Discussion, which was bad for you, in the other Thread,
i thought and still think that you got angry because your chain of Arguments
was not 100% Waterproof!

So, please continue

HOW TO AVOID BIOACCUMULATED TOXINS:

Eat low on the food chain! Krill will have the least, and shrimp, herring, smelt, sardines.

Whale will have the most, tuna, snapper, marlin, etc.

I am SO glad that someone is finally taking a realistic stance on this matter. THERE WILL NOT BE ANY OTHER EXPLOSIONS AT FUKUSHIMA! Therefore all you have to worry about is the radiation already released, and to a SLIGHT degree, the radiation released into the ocean, which is BALLS FREAKIN HUGE!!!!!

RickinVa

Human0815
reply to post by losthighway

 

Rofl!

Your Posting is a good Evidence of your lack of knowledge
but this is Okay, we are here to grow together!

But please ask yourself: "What do i know about how the Japanese
Government and the Japanese Nuclear Complex handle this Accident
regarding the flow of Information"?

Do you know how many so called "Grasrootmovements"
came into being after the Explosions in Daiichi?

Do you know how many Studies, Reports and Investigations
got published in the last 1.000 Days?

Do you know how many Hours the national TV
spend for this Accident, the Radio or how
many News-Article was seen alone in the big Newspapers?

Do you know how many People participated in the
Anti-Nuclear Movement here in Japan?

I bet you can't provide a proper Answer but as i said
"this is Ok"!

Fukushima is already now one of the best investigated Events
in the human History.

PS: The Soviets/ Russians done nothing
or mostly useless things in Chernobyl.

edit on 14-1-2014 by Human0815 because: spell and chane

edit on 14-1-2014 by Human0815 because: more questions

"Fukushima is already now one of the best investigated Events
in the human History." I almost choked on that one.

If its so well investigated then please answer the following questions.

1. Exactly how much radiation is being leaked out in to the area and ocean?

2. When will the site be fully contained ; ie when will there be no more leakage???

3. The most important question of them all, Can you please tell me precisely where the 3 coriums in the melted reactors are located.

4. In what century will the coriums finally be safe enough to get close and be able to be dug out?

5. Why did Tepco initially tell the world that the 3 reactors were safely in cold shut down when they were in fact in full blown uncontrolled meltdown?

6. In what century will the people who live in the exclusion zone be allowed to return home?

7. What will be the effect of continued radiation leaking into the atmosphere and ocean for centuries??

That's a few of the easy ones..... have at it.



Fukushima is uncharted territory.

There is no possible way anyone can claim that Fukushima is over.... it's going to continue for centuries.

Pro- nukers rush to the defense and claim that Fukushima is under control and every thing is going to be just fine because its been almost 3 years and no body is glowing on the dark yet.... they like to ignore the fact that this is most likely going to continue for thousands of years.

edit on 14-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Tell me where the 3 melted coriums are

You can't because no one can get close enough to the buildings to find out.

One more question about the most studied event in history.

The Fukushima NPP sits above an a huge freshwater supply.

Can you tell me for certain that the 3 melted coriums are contained?? Where are they??? Are they at the bottom of whats left of the reactors or have they breached the containment vessel and are now happily living life somewhere under the plant??

What happens if the coriums contaminate the fresh water?

reply to post by RickinVa


Do you visit and Read:
My Thread

As long as you don;t do it as long there is no sense to answer your Question
because we would turn around and around and i am very tired of this
because we done this already 1.000 Days

But nice as i am i will give you a Hint:
The molten Fuel is not on the Top of the Reactor

Fukushima is bad mojo, and that's all there is to it.

As of 1/14/2014 it appears that the area is relatively stable... but that can change in a moment with out notice.

There are thousands of fuel rods that have to be removed....

The ground at Fukushima Daiichi is completely saturated with water.... the reactor buildings are sinking and in danger of collapse at any time. Reactor 4, which houses around 6000 or so fuel rods is leaning 30 inches on one side.... 30 inches!!!

Reactor 4 could come tumbling down at any moment and that one event in itself could release the radiation equivalent of 11,000 Hiroshima bombs...... if that happens, then they have no choice but to abandon the site, which would leave the remaining fuel rods subject of loss of cooling and they too would begin to fission.

Open air fission is probably the worst case scenario at any nuclear power plant.

The whole area is seismically unstable and the chances of another earthquake of 6.0 or higher is a very likely event to occur. If this occurs close enough to the plant.... then its game over.... the buildings are just too structurally unstable to survive another earthquake, especially with the amount of ground water.


There are just too many unknowns to say that Fukushima is over and done with.... it is literally the gift that just keeps on giving.


Even if Fukushima remains as it is today for the next 20 years..... it will continue to leak radiation into the air and into the ocean,,,, and that's the best case scenario!!!

Human0815
reply to post by RickinVa

 

Do you visit and Read:
My Thread

As long as you don;t do it as long there is no sense to answer your Question
because we would turn around and around and i am very tired of this
because we done this already 1.000 Days

But nice as i am i will give you a Hint:
The molten Fuel is not on the Top of the Reactor

I did look at the the first PDF you provided... I made it as far as page 6 of the first file where it clearly states:

52 instances of unconfirmed and unexplained events were extracted

That's the good ole Tepco way.......if you can't explain it or justify abnormally high readings....then just delete the info and pretend it never happened.

I trust Tepco's information about zero percent.... and the information provided by the Japanese government is just about as trustworthy.

fractal2
reply to post by RickinVa

 

The information that would be useful is how much of any given type of radiation would actually be able to start killing sea life or rendering it unfit for consumption. All the Fukashima threads just spit out large numbers at me and expect me to be scared by big numbers. Its not big numbers that scare me. When sea life starts shows tested as dead due to radiation poisoning, thats when I start worrying.

I haven't seen any evidence that correlates the loss of sea life directly to the events at Fukushima.... I doubt very seriously if Fukushima has leaked enough radiation to start killing sea life, especially on the other side of the ocean. But if it keeps continuing to leak radiation into the ocean for decades and centuries.... then all bets are off

People want to naturally assume that since there have been some abnormal losses of sea life that it must be because of Fukushima..... there is no proof of that whatsoever that I have personally seen.

Should you be concerned about the effects of the radiation leaking from the stricken plant?

Absolutely.


That was in my original post and I will stand by that unless someone can provide valid scientific evidence that the radiation leaking into the air and ocean at Fukushima is harmless to the environment and to humans.

What are the effects of radiation on cells?

Radioactive materials that decay spontaneously produce ionizing radiation, which has sufficient energy to strip away electrons from atoms (creating two charged ions) or to break some chemical bonds. Any living tissue in the human body can be damaged by ionizing radiation in a unique manner. The body attempts to repair the damage, but sometimes the damage is of a nature that cannot be repaired or it is too severe or widespread to be repaired. Also mistakes made in the natural repair process can lead to cancerous cells. The most common forms of ionizing radiation are alpha and beta particles, or gamma and X-rays.

www.epa.gov/radiation/understand/health_effects.html

What kind of health effects does exposure to radiation cause?

Stochastic Health Effects

Stochastic effects are associated with long-term, low-level (chronic) exposure to radiation. ("Stochastic" refers to the likelihood that something will happen.) Increased levels of exposure make these health effects more likely to occur, but do not influence the type or severity of the effect. Cancer is considered by most people the primary health effect from radiation exposure. Simply put, cancer is the uncontrolled growth of cells. Ordinarily, natural processes control the rate at which cells grow and replace themselves. They also control the body's processes for repairing or replacing damaged tissue. Damage occurring at the cellular or molecular level, can disrupt the control processes, permitting the uncontrolled growth of cells cancer This is why ionizing radiation's ability to break chemical bonds in atoms and molecules makes it such a potent carcinogen. Other stochastic effects also occur. Radiation can cause changes in DNA, the "blueprints" that ensure cell repair and replacement produces a perfect copy of the original cell. Changes in DNA are called mutations. Sometimes the body fails to repair these mutations or even creates mutations during repair. The mutations can be teratogenic or genetic. Teratogenic mutations are caused by exposure of the fetus in the uterus and affect only the individual who was exposed. Genetic mutations are passed on to offspring.

Non-Stochastic Health Effects

Non-stochastic effects appear in cases of exposure to high levels of radiation, and become more severe as the exposure increases. Short-term, high-level exposure is referred to as 'acute' exposure. Many non-cancerous health effects of radiation are non-stochastic. Unlike cancer, health effects from 'acute' exposure to radiation usually appear quickly. Acute health effects include burns and radiation sickness. Radiation sickness is also called 'radiation poisoning.' It can cause premature aging or even death. If the dose is fatal, death usually occurs within two months. The symptoms of radiation sickness include: nausea, weakness, hair loss, skin burns or diminished organ function. Medical patients receiving radiation treatments often experience acute effects, because they are receiving relatively high "bursts" of radiation during treatment.

www.epa.gov...

Is any amount of radiation safe?

There is no firm basis for setting a "safe" level of exposure above background for stochastic effects. Many sources emit radiation that is well below natural background levels. This makes it extremely difficult to isolate its stochastic effects. In setting limits, EPA makes the conservative (cautious) assumption that any increase in radiation exposure is accompanied by an increased risk of stochastic effects. Some scientists assert that low levels of radiation are beneficial to health (this idea is known as hormesis). However, there do appear to be threshold exposures for the various non-stochastic effects. (Please note that the acute affects in the following table are cumulative. For example, a dose that produces damage to bone marrow will have produced changes in blood chemistry and be accompanied by nausea.)

www.epa.gov...


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When a cell encounters radiation, one of 4 states must be achieved:

1. The track(s) crossed the cell and no damage is created.

2. The track(s) crossed the cell and the cell was damaged, but the cell was able to repair itself prior to division.

3. The track(s) crossed the cell and the cell was killed.

4. The track(s) crossed the cell and the cell was damaged, but the cell was unable to repair itself prior to division.

#4 should seem familiar to you.... the cell itself is damaged and unable to repair itself before it divided, It now divides and you have 2 cells that have the same damage then it divides again and now you have 4 damaged cells and so on and so forth.

This could lead to cancer, mutations, or other undesirable side effects from your encounter with radiation.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I submit the following picture for your viewing pleasure:




The above picture demonstrates what radiation looks like in lung tissue.

That's one single particle!!


so in conclusion..... There is no safe dose of radiation.... at least not as far as I am concerned.

so should you be concerned about the radiation coming out of Fukushima??

Absolutely!!!

Human0815
Op looks very angry because someone do not shared his Opinion,
but anger is a bad reason to start a Discussion, Topic or What So Ever

I am "happy" that this Accident happen/ed here in Japan and not
somewhere else like in Bulgaria, Slovenia or any other old Eastern European Plant.

Actually this would have been much better if it had happened in Bulgaria or Slovenia and not right on the Pacific ocean which is now providing a superhighway to spread the contamination WORLDWIDE. Look at Chernobyl, it was localised except for moderate atmospheric fallout. Fukushima has spread millions of kilograms of radioactive material onto the nearby ocean floor and local fish are regularly testing 100times of more over the "safe" limit. (That safe limit has already been raised to an absurd threshold anyway)

8675309jenny

Human0815
Op looks very angry because someone do not shared his Opinion,
but anger is a bad reason to start a Discussion, Topic or What So Ever

I am "happy" that this Accident happen/ed here in Japan and not
somewhere else like in Bulgaria, Slovenia or any other old Eastern European Plant.

Actually this would have been much better if it had happened in Bulgaria or Slovenia and not right on the Pacific ocean which is now providing a superhighway to spread the contamination WORLDWIDE. Look at Chernobyl, it was localised except for moderate atmospheric fallout. Fukushima has spread millions of kilograms of radioactive material onto the nearby ocean floor and local fish are regularly testing 100times of more over the "safe" limit. (That safe limit has already been raised to an absurd threshold anyway)

If this had happened in the middle of a land locked country, then it most likely would have been much easier to deal with and probably been buried via Chernobyl style a couple of years ago.

The physical location of the Fukushima Daiichi Plant makes it impossible to mitigate with today's current technology.

I often wonder how many years its going to be before this place is stopped from leaking radiation...... Here we are 3 years later and nothing has really changed. The plant is still leaching contaminated groundwater with unknown amounts of radiation.
And people tend to forget that its still leaking radioactivity into the air as well.

I truly wonder what the world will look like when my grand kids are my age.

reply to post by 8675309jenny


So?

You value the Sea more than "the Motherland"?

The behaviour of Radioactivity in the Sea is much better for us than on the Soil,
on the Land the Emissions accumulate on the Surface only and decreased
2- 5 Cm. in a Year,
while in the Sea the whole Water-column is used,
this Dilution Effect is much better not only for us as the Humankind
but for all Earthlings!!

Human0815
reply to post by 8675309jenny

 

So?

You value the Sea more than "the Motherland"?

The behaviour of Radioactivity in the Sea is much better for us than on the Soil,
on the Land the Emissions accumulate on the Surface only and decreased
2- 5 Cm. in a Year,
while in the Sea the whole Water-column is used,
this Dilution Effect is much better not only for us as the Humankind
but for all Earthlings!!

Sorry but you're wrong. Earth/soil does not move in constant rapid currents and we can choose not to live near a given place on LAND. Yet every last one of us is affected by the Oceans becoming unsupportive to life!

The Pacific is connected to the Atlantic Ocean, Indian Ocean, Artic Ocean etc etc. The Oceans are all one, and the contamination is not stopping.

reply to post by 8675309jenny


For Japan it would be a Catastrophe when the 80% of the total released Radioactivity
hit this small Island, we are happy that it is gone to the Seas-Side because
the Pacific is much, much bigger than Japan!

Fukushima was and is the Garden of Japan and one of the most important parts
for our production of Food, we can't keep away from t/here.

Some issues here that need addressing folks...

Fukushima is out of control

The situation is far worse than Tepco maintain, and you don't need a degree in nuclear physics to work that one out

Despite protestations to the contrary nuclear power is not safe by any stretch of the imagination, look at the whole process including decommissioning and 'storage' of waste that is required

Looking at absorption of anything nuclear into the biomass or food chain has to be undertaken for obvious reasons, not least of which most sane people on ATS do not believe a word that TPTB spout and so many Trolls support the 'official line' on here these days there must be a queue waiting as each post hits the ether. Predictable to the point of humorous now.

I'm not sure of the full picture wrt Fukushima, but I do know that with the amount of nuclear crap issuing from its wreckage over these 1000+ days the kelp beds will have some interesting tales to tell.

Deny ignorance, yep, and while you are at it deny baiting of posters, you know it makes sense!

reply to post by Human0815

I cant believe this guy. This is a global disaster!
Still im glad you are happy for japan since the leak went to the pacific so it will trouble other countries too, and not so much yours!
Japan is the first responsible for this whole disaster. The plant shouldnt have been built there in the first place.
And I personally believe that if the problem should have happened in europe it would be better dealt with, any european country would call for interntional assist in such a case, instead of closing themselves and restricting information on the accident.