Fukushima radiation… what you need to know and why

raymundoko
reply to post by RickinVa

 

I don't know why you keep trying to play word games with diluted. The scientific word for what happens is dilute...

e360.yale.edu...

So yes, the pacific ocean is diluting the radiation.

A quote from your source:

“Given that the Fukushima nuclear power plant is on the ocean, and with leaks and runoff directly to the ocean, the impacts on the ocean will exceed those of Chernobyl, which was hundreds of miles from any sea,” said Ken Buesseler, senior scientist in marine chemistry at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts. “My biggest concern is the lack of information. We still don’t know the whole range of radioactive compounds that have been released into the ocean, nor do we know their distribution. We have a few data points from the Japanese — all close to the coast — but to understand the full impact, including for fisheries, we need broader surveys and scientific study of the area.”

Buessler and other experts say this much is clear: Both short-lived radioactive elements, such as iodine-131, and longer-lived elements — such as cesium-137, with a half-life of 30 years — can be absorbed by phytoplankton, zooplankton, kelp, and other marine life and then be transmitted up the food chain, to fish, marine mammals, and humans. Other radioactive elements — including plutonium, which has been detected outside the Fukushima plant — also pose a threat to marine life. A key question is how concentrated will the radioactive contamination be. Japanese officials hope that a temporary fishing ban off the northeastern Japanese coast will be enough to avert any danger to human health until the flow of radioactive water into the sea can be stopped. But that spigot is still running. Since the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, and the resulting damage to the reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, huge quantities of water have been poured on four stricken

The key question is how concentrated will the radioactive contamination be. reactors to keep them cool. Thousands of tons of radioactively contaminated water have then been released from the Fukushima complex into the ocean. And even though the Japanese this week stopped a leak of highly radioactive material from the badly damaged Reactor No. 2, the water used to cool the reactor cores continues to flow into the sea. In addition, atmospheric fallout from the damaged reactors is contaminating the ocean as prevailing winds carry radioactivity out over the Pacific. The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has reported that seawater containing radioactive iodine-131 at 5 million times the legal limit has been detected near the plant. According to the Japanese news service, NHK, a recent sample also contained 1.1 million times the legal level of radioactive cesium-137. Studies from previous releases of nuclear material in the Irish, Kara and Barents Seas, as well as in the Pacific Ocean, show that such radioactive material does travel with ocean currents, is deposited in marine sediment, and does climb the marine food web.

I think they summed up 'our' concerns nicely. Not enough info. No solutions. Signs of contamination. 5 million times the legal limit. Known to travel with the currents.

Regarding "dilution" - yes, technically if you have a marble in a glass of water compared to a marble in a bathtub of water, the marble in the bathtub of water is 'diluted' as it is surrounded by more water - but not 'dissolved' or rendered 'harmless'. - it is still a marble and alive and kicking until it breaks down on its own sweet time - meanwhile more marbles are joining it every second of every day of every year.

Natural radiation is not the same as man made radiation in nuclear reactors. I will take a sunburn any day over breathing plutonium. But no worries, just drink some more fluoridated water and remain 'complacent'....

RickinVa
To prevent thread drift, let start with what facts can be proven and what cannot proven, backed up by scientific data and not speculation or guesses by the expert of your choice.

When you boil it down to raw facts, most people would be shocked that after 3 years, most of the stuff at Fukushima is really unknown.


KNOWN FACTS:

1. The Pacific Ocean will not "dilute" the radiation coming out of Fukushima.
2. Fukushima is leaking radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean and into the atmosphere on a daily basis.
3. There is no current time frame for when the leaks at Fukushima will be stopped.
4. The radiation from Fukushima that goes into the Pacific Ocean will dissipate.

UNKNOWN FACTS:

1. Exactly how much radiation is coming out of Fukushima on a daily basis into the air and ocean?
2. What are the long term health effects for the radiation from Fukushima?
3. What will be the bio-accumulation from Fukushima?
4. How far spread will the bio accumulation from Fukushima be?
5. When will people be able to return to their homes in the exclusion area outside of Fukushima?
6. What is going to happen with the radioactive water stored in the tank farms at Fukushima?
7. How far did the radiation from the original meltdown spread?
8. What was the severity of the initial releases during the first days of the accident?
9. What is the long term effects going to be on the local fishermen around the Fukushima area?
10. How long can Tepco keep pumping money at Fukushima before it starts becoming an unbearable financial strain?
11. When will the Japanese government seize control of the Fukushima plant from Tepco?
12. How long before morale becomes a serious issue with the workers at the plant?

I could probably think of a dozen more unknowns, but I hope you are getting my point.

There are simply too many unknown factors about Fukushima to make a really sound logical decision on most of the stuff people discuss about Fukushima. People are going to debate their side of the issue and there is no stopping that, but that's a good thing... as long as people keep talking then Fukushima will never be pushed to the back burner.

edit on 17-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Excellent List - did you mean in #4 to say will "not" dissipate? I'd like to add to the "knowns":

- the Tepco water barrels are leaking and repaired with duct tape
- they have told us they have to dump it all in the oceans soon
- Tepco is an operations company, not an engineering company and have no clue how to deal with this unprecedented catastrophe
- Japan now has a secrecy law in effect to prevent information leaks while allowing radiation leaks
- global help is not being allowed
- US and Canada stopped monitoring radiation right after the meltdowns
- thousands of Japanese have not survived being evacuated and homeless

Why?

- is the governments (Canada/US) not pro-active in monitoring radiation?
- did Japan make information illegal?
- isn't the world jumping in to help deal with this?
- are animals appearing with hair loss, bleeding and seizures?
- aren't they burying it with zeolite which absorbs radiation and is plentiful nearby?
- aren't they providing proper containers to house radiated water?
- aren't they protecting the clean water below ground?

AND additional things that we know.

5 We are seeing an increase in radiation spikes at our monitoring stations, and an increase in the ocean currents off of the West coast of N America.

6 The amount of radiation leaking out of Fukushima is increasing, and the increase is possibly accelerating, if recent reports are correct.

7 Things are going to get worse before they get better.

reply to post by wishes


For starters they have to bring in the big guns, it's all about containment, they can build Islands, they can do this if it's not already to late. They need to build remote operated machines that can work it the radiation unaffected, then they can start to build a sea wall with massive amount of concrete. It's still all about containment, this is going to change the world for certain, the fishing industry will come to a end in the North Pacific. The Japanese are such big fish eaters and that is coming to a end, they will have to look else where.

At Fermi they had the lower portion of the reaction chamber built on a slope so if they did have a melt down the nuclear material would not drop on the ground, but would just run down the slope. They were worried it would exploded if it hit the ground in a excited state. I would bet these people in Japan are just waiting for this thing to blow. Worst case.

There is even talk that Japan was involved in some covert, weapons grade material manufacture, at these reactors locations. I don't know if these were fast breeder type reactors, most likely were. So they don't want any help, the US set them up in Biz, they should, step up to the plate and make their presents, involvement know with what ever means needed. Japan is getting to big for their britches any how with talk of a offensives military, they gots plans, the US should of never let go of control of them.

RickinVa
KNOWN FACTS:

1. The Pacific Ocean will not "dilute" the radiation coming out of Fukushima.
2. Fukushima is leaking radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean and into the atmosphere on a daily basis.
3. There is no current time frame for when the leaks at Fukushima will be stopped.
4. The radiation from Fukushima that goes into the Pacific Ocean will dissipate.

UNKNOWN FACTS:

1. Exactly how much radiation is coming out of Fukushima on a daily basis into the air and ocean?
2. What are the long term health effects for the radiation from Fukushima?
3. What will be the bio-accumulation from Fukushima?
4. How far spread will the bio accumulation from Fukushima be?
5. When will people be able to return to their homes in the exclusion area outside of Fukushima?
6. What is going to happen with the radioactive water stored in the tank farms at Fukushima?
7. How far did the radiation from the original meltdown spread?
8. What was the severity of the initial releases during the first days of the accident?
9. What is the long term effects going to be on the local fishermen around the Fukushima area?
10. How long can Tepco keep pumping money at Fukushima before it starts becoming an unbearable financial strain?
11. When will the Japanese government seize control of the Fukushima plant from Tepco?
12. How long before morale becomes a serious issue with the workers at the plant?

1. We could expect ca. 10 Mio Bq. a Hour for each Reactor- 720.000.000 Bq a Day
Tepco Roadmap

2. Here you need to give more Info like for the People of Futaba, or in Fukushima, in Tohoku,
in Japan, Asia or the whole World.
But i offer you this:
No Immediate Health Risks from Fukushima Nuclear Accident Says UN Expert Science Panel
United Nations

3. I do not understand this Question!

4. Northern Pacific only, see Kuroshio Current

Kuroshio, ( Japanese: “Black Current”: ) also called Japan Current, strong surface oceanic current of the Pacific Ocean, the northeasterly flowing continuation of the Pacific North Equatorial Current between Luzon of the Philippines and the east coast of Japan. The temperature and salinity of Kuroshio water are relatively high for the region, about 68° F (20° C) and 34.5 parts per thousand, respectively. Only about 1,300 feet (400 m) deep, the Kuroshio travels at rates ranging between 20 and 120 inches (50 and 300 cm) per second.

Flowing past Taiwan (Formosa) and the Ryukyu Islands, the current skirts the east coast of Kyushu, where, during the summer, it branches west and then northeast through the Korea Strait to parallel the west coast of Honshu in the Sea of Japan as the Tsushima Current. In the vicinity of latitude 35° N

Source

Here we need to observe the Eddies:
Source

5. This is a running Process, some may never return and other have returned already,
for example: Nuclear evacuation zone revised in Fukushima’s Tomioka
Japan Times

Evacuation Zones:
Google Images

6. Here you need to understand ALPS first:
Overview of the Multi-nuclide Removal Equipment (ALPS) at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
Tepco Hand-Out

7. Here you need to tell me what you are looking for but i can say that we found
traces all around the World!

8. It was a massive Release in the first Week and a bit less in the Days after,
the estimated Release is ca. 900 PBq. (Chernobyl was ca. 5.200 PBq)
Fukushima radiation higher than first estimated

Tepco, set to be nationalised in July in exchange for a Japanese government bailout, estimated meltdowns at three Fukushima reactors released about 900,000 terabecquerels of radioactive substances into the air during March.--
---More than 99 percent of the radiation released by the accident came in the first three weeks, it added.

Source

9. At the moment they get their Money from Tepco/ Government

10. Tepco is mostly owned by the Government since 07/12, afaik. 51.,7%
Japan to take control of Tepco in return for bailout
BBC Source

11. see Nr. 10.!

12. the Morale is bad and the Scaremongering of many People create a very bad Situation
for all the Worker there who sacrifice their Life for us!
Plummeting morale at Fukushima Daiichi as nuclear cleanup takes its toll
The Guardian

wishes



Why?

- is the governments (Canada/US) not pro-active in monitoring radiation?
- did Japan make information illegal?
- isn't the world jumping in to help deal with this?
- are animals appearing with hair loss, bleeding and seizures?
- aren't they burying it with zeolite which absorbs radiation and is plentiful nearby?
- aren't they providing proper containers to house radiated water?
- aren't they protecting the clean water below ground?

1. Ask them!

But imo they provide their Measurements, at least the Americans via EPA
EPA Source

2. Information about Fukushima is not Illegal,
please inform your self!

3. It seams like you don't know anything about the happenings in Fukushima Daiichi,
"the World" is there since Day 1.!

4. What do you expect, we poison the World since Decades,
but also we see that many Habitats are overcrowded with Mammals,
all this Diseases are natural Ways to handle such situation!

5. Inform yourself, to bury this Plant will not help,
instead they should do this in Chernobyl where it make sense!

6. Because there is not enough Time to do it in a proper Way

7. I don't know, i would build a small Channel with Windmills
before the Plant but it seams like that this is a "big No No"!

reply to post by Human0815

Did you see what they did at Chernobyl .
They are entombing it.
Put a lid on it big time.

reply to post by OOOOOO


Danger Graphic Video !
nuclear exodus

If you are interested this is what they did in Chernobyl.
They built a roof over it but it leaks, the water gets in and makes a explosion danger but also it runs out spreading more radiation every day. That roof is about to collapse if not repaired.
Things you read make it sound like Chernobyl is all safe and rosy right, I dare you to watch 2 hours of this film!
IT WILL BE MANY CENTURIES BEFORE THE DEATH AND SUFFERING AROUND Chernobyl ENDS!

Most comparisons I see make Fukushima worse by factors of 100 or 10000 ?

The interest and the will of the people of Earth left these people. There's no money for any help there, excepting volunteers though, do you care enough ?

Is this what becomes of the Fukushima area ? The bread basket of Japan?

OOOOOO
reply to post by Human0815

 

Did you see what they did at Chernobyl .
They are entombing it.
Put a lid on it big time.

They just build a Roof, Entombing is something else!

also you need to understand the difference between both happenings,
the Accident in F'Shima released Radioactive Gases
while in the Disaster of Chernobyl the whole Core exploded,
the Fuel is still inside of Fukuichi while the Fuel of Chernobyl
exploded and expelled from the Containment or burned up for 10 Days!

To entomb the Plant in Fukushima is stupid but we discussed this
Ad Nauseam in 2011/12!

donlashway
reply to post by OOOOOO

 

Danger Graphic Video !
nuclear exodus

If you are interested this is what they did in Chernobyl.
They built a roof over it but it leaks, the water gets in and makes a explosion danger but also it runs out spreading more radiation every day. That roof is about to collapse if not repaired.
Things you read make it sound like Chernobyl is all safe and rosy right, I dare you to watch 2 hours of this film!
IT WILL BE MANY CENTURIES BEFORE THE DEATH AND SUFFERING AROUND Chernobyl ENDS!

Most comparisons I see make Fukushima worse by factors of 100 or 10000 ?

The interest and the will of the people of Earth left these people. There's no money for any help there, excepting volunteers though, do you care enough ?

Is this what becomes of the Fukushima area ? The bread basket of Japan?

edit on 18-1-2014 by donlashway because: (no reason given)

They didn't build a proper roof over it - I believe even 6 feet of dirt will contain radiation better than cement every would. They could build a mini-mountain over the entire thing and then cement it. Ya gotta keep asking yourself why all these guys aren't "properly" containing any of the nuclear leaks and waste around the world?!?!?

Human0815

OOOOOO
reply to post by Human0815

 

Did you see what they did at Chernobyl .
They are entombing it.
Put a lid on it big time.

They just build a Roof, Entombing is something else!

also you need to understand the difference between both happenings,
the Accident in F'Shima released Radioactive Gases
while in the Disaster of Chernobyl the whole Core exploded,
the Fuel is still inside of Fukuichi while the Fuel of Chernobyl
exploded and expelled from the Containment or burned up for 10 Days!

To entomb the Plant in Fukushima is stupid but we discussed this
Ad Nauseam in 2011/12!

To entomb the plant is one solution and better than leaving it all exposed like they are. Exactly 'how' to entomb it is a different question altogether. They could start by pushing dirt from a distance away and building a wall around it then filling it in with zeolite. As I understand it there's a zeolite mine nearby and zeolite absorbs radiation. Our problem with Fukushima that you keep wanting to profusely defend is that they're doing NOTHING and saying NOTHING about its reality.

reply to post by Human0815


Without going backward and regurgitating or searching out all the data would you please, agree most of the fuel in three reactors breached the containment vessel.

Leaks continue to transfer material from the containment's to this day.

The presents of plutonium and other materials kilometers away indicate the containment failed and fuel was ejected.

Not to the extent of Chernobyl but very bad none the less.

Human0815

wishes



Why?

- is the governments (Canada/US) not pro-active in monitoring radiation?
- did Japan make information illegal?
- isn't the world jumping in to help deal with this?
- are animals appearing with hair loss, bleeding and seizures?
- aren't they burying it with zeolite which absorbs radiation and is plentiful nearby?
- aren't they providing proper containers to house radiated water?
- aren't they protecting the clean water below ground?

1. Ask them!

But imo they provide their Measurements, at least the Americans via EPA
EPA Source

2. Information about Fukushima is not Illegal,
please inform your self!

3. It seams like you don't know anything about the happenings in Fukushima Daiichi,
"the World" is there since Day 1.!

4. What do you expect, we poison the World since Decades,
but also we see that many Habitats are overcrowded with Mammals,
all this Diseases are natural Ways to handle such situation!

5. Inform yourself, to bury this Plant will not help,
instead they should do this in Chernobyl where it make sense!

6. Because there is not enough Time to do it in a proper Way

7. I don't know, i would build a small Channel with Windmills
before the Plant but it seams like that this is a "big No No"!

edit on 18-1-2014 by Human0815 because: spell

First of all the Canada and US Governments have been asked and it's been discussed before. Their equipment is "broken", lolol. And yeah, we can surely trust the EPA which is a government arm. As well ANYTHING coming out of the UN is from the other side, not our side - and if YOU were more well informed about the UN and what it really is you would understand that. Many of us on these forums have a far greater understanding of the global political stage than most - and once you see what's really 'behind the curtain' then you understand "why" this (Fukushima is just one example) is happening in the first place.

You buy into all their excuses, like no time to do it the proper way - BS! They absolutely CAN do it proper but DON'T! It's been 3 years and you excuse their shoddiness with no time? Most of your replies are foundless and seem to only want to dissuade real discussions about real issues not being addressed.

And no, the world is not in Japan helping to deal with this, TEPCO is there doing it all! And yes, new laws in Japan have made 'questioning' the status quo illegal and punishable with jail time. You are seeing only one tiny perspective and not the bigger picture and until you open your viewpoint you will remain stuck.

reply to post by donlashway


No, i can't agree with that because it is not the Reality,
the Design of the Reactor Type of F'Shima provide 3 different
Vessels and Containment,
the Fuel mostly left the Reactor Pressure Vessel in all
3 Reactor but do not left the final Containment!

Please look one more time in to the Files to see
and to understand the Design!
(like Accident Reports provided by all the huge Player)

reply to post by wishes


Bs.,

you are without any knowledge about this Accident
but we should be not surprised about this because
People who believe in L. Moret or Jimstoned Freelance
will never believe in official Reports!

Their view and interpretation of this Accident are discussed
in the Hoax Bin but not here!

I need Realism because the Plant is very close,
you can go with the "Hot Air" because for you it is
"just a Story"!

donlashway
reply to post by OOOOOO

 

Danger Graphic Video !
nuclear exodus

If you are interested this is what they did in Chernobyl.
They built a roof over it but it leaks, the water gets in and makes a explosion danger but also it runs out spreading more radiation every day. That roof is about to collapse if not repaired.
Things you read make it sound like Chernobyl is all safe and rosy right, I dare you to watch 2 hours of this film!
IT WILL BE MANY CENTURIES BEFORE THE DEATH AND SUFFERING AROUND Chernobyl ENDS!

Most comparisons I see make Fukushima worse by factors of 100 or 10000 ?

The interest and the will of the people of Earth left these people. There's no money for any help there, excepting volunteers though, do you care enough ?

Is this what becomes of the Fukushima area ? The bread basket of Japan?

edit on 18-1-2014 by donlashway because: (no reason given)

Ya got to wonder why there's trillions of dollars for military and black ops budgets, but zero to help people... They (governments) always talk about budget cuts - but their budget in the first place is whatever they allot to any sector, not near what they actually have in their banks. As I recall in Canada the actual cost in healthcare was about 3% of their entire money, but the government has continually cut back and closed down services and hospitals screaming that it costs too much - but they can give tons of money away to other countries and they've never accounted for what they get from their 7% tax on EVERYTHING they put in place years back. It's all a sham! People are left to deal with the underdogs and helpless and poor because the governments are doing their own thing all the time - they aren't here to govern us, they're here to control what we get and how much we can have.

I absolutely believe Fukushima is far worse than Chernobyl - and I absolutely believe they could be doing more to stop it but aren't - everything they've done/doing is ridiculous - duct tape? seriously? I also believe people spending any amount of time in there is getting totally radiated regardless of their masks and suits.

The video you posted looks heart wrenching - I will watch it when I can grab some time which is very short in next while.

Human0815

They just build a Roof, Entombing is something else!

also you need to understand the difference between both happenings,
the Accident in F'Shima released Radioactive Gases
while in the Disaster of Chernobyl the whole Core exploded,
the Fuel is still inside of Fukuichi while the Fuel of Chernobyl
exploded and expelled from the Containment or burned up for 10 Days!

There were multiple explosions at Fukushima, here is reactor 3 :




If the fuel of Chernobyl was expelled, then why is the 'elephant's foot' inside the sarcophagus they built?

reply to post by jrod


He is not composed by pure Fuel but a Melange of Fuel,
Graphite, Sand, Concrete, Lead and other "Dirt"!

Still now you can go to Chernobyl and collect Fragments
of pure Fuel!

They done nothing in Chernobyl, absolute no Cleaning.
I need to dig for Numbers but afair. Chernobyl still
emits Radioactivity on a similar Scale like Fukuichi today,
incl. Groundwater!

reply to post by Human0815

With all that contamination at Chernobyl, the catfish are still able to thrive in the cooling pond there!

I think it is reasonable to assume the explosions at reactor 1 and 3 at Fukushima also spread pieces of fuel, I've even heard them referred to as fuel fleas.

jrod
reply to post by Human0815

 

With all that contamination at Chernobyl, the catfish are still able to thrive in the cooling pond there!

I think it is reasonable to assume the explosions at reactor 1 and 3 at Fukushima also spread pieces of fuel, I've even heard them referred to as fuel fleas.

No, the Explosions in F'Shima was outside of the Containment
and in Chernobyl inside,
(the Word "Containment" in the case of Chernobyl is not right)
you need to look for the basic Differences in their Design!
(in the case you don't know!)

F'Shima do not spread "Hardware" but Gases,
Chernobyl spread Fuel Fragments!
(ca. 75-80% burned or expelled, some People believe this Numbers are higher)