China Plans To Seize South China Sea Island From Philippines, Says "Battle Will Be Restricted"

dragonridr

OccamsRazor04

EA006
reply to post by Argyll

 

They can, but they won't. China takes one island, then another, then another. The U.S does nothing.
China has a strong military easily transported to the area. Boots on the ground. The U.S does nothing.
China flips off America.....you see where this is going.

China is an ant right now anywhere outside the Chinese mainland. They have zero force projection power and would be completely unable to land any boot anywhere without US allowance. In 15-20 years this might have changed, but right now China is more than happy to not spend money on force projection and allow the US to spend it's money ensuring the trade security China enjoys.

Well in truth if a battle did occur at first the air war would be costly but eventually id say a month the US would own the skies over China then its over. You can look at Iraq control the skies you control the country. Of course provided id stayed conventional

edit on 1/12/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Costly for who? The taxpayers? China? Are you forgetting about our growing fleet of UAVs that we could now gleefully unleash on a target that the American public would sanction and approve of?

I maintain that there is a good chance we could beat China into dust without deploying a single troop and as long as they don't go nuclear, without any nukes. The second I'm less sure about since I believe there is a good chance China will lob some nukes if they get desperate.

elysiumfire
OccamsRazor04:

They have zero force projection power...

They are a nuclear armed country, you don't get more projection power than that! I'll bet they are more willing to die for their country than Americans are for theirs, and they can absorb the loss much better. Americans, eh...think they can act militarily with impunity. America got its ass handed to it in Vietnam, China is a fair number of magnitudes above Vietnam. Hey, by all means, underestimate China, They would love you to do so.

How does having nuclear weapons magically allow you to transport troops over the Pacific to the US mainland? Maybe you need to look at the kill count for the Vietnam war. The US was so far superior it's hilarious, Vietnam did not win the war, US reluctance to fight did. Mostly fueled by the media and Hollywood. Not to mention the military was run by politicians and severely handcuffed.

Please show me what China has that would allow it to either A) bomb the US mainland via aircraft or B) land troops in the US mainland. I will wait for it.

elysiumfire
They certainly seem to act with all the precocity of children. We have one claiming that the Chinese have no projection power, yet they can easily reach American cities with their nukes. They can certainly hit Japan.

And we have you making claims you can't backup. As I said, I will wait for your answer to my above questions.

ketsuko
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Well, we've got the same problem in reverse, and I just don't see the American people backing a war in China.

They will if China strikes first. Or made to look that way at least.

Before WW2, there was a strong Nazi movement here in the States and many were isolationist as well.

That turned around rather quickly after Dec 7th., didn't it?

reply to post by dragonridr

Well in truth if a battle did occur at first the air war would be costly but eventually id say a month the US would own the skies over China then its over. You can look at Iraq control the skies you control the country.

Maybe, China is relatively new with their modernization but I'm somewhat skeptical of the idea of a cake walk. Was recently reading about China's plan to neutralize our naval forces using some type of what seemed a surface and sea to sea missile offense. Can't remember where now. Just saying, if China is going to do this they've already planned ahead.

Granted we spend as much on our military as the next twelve highest spenders. I don't really care about the per capita argument, when you spend the big bucks you get the big weapons. While small compared to our spending (borrowing?) for the military there's still going to be a lot of hardware flying.

TDawgRex:Lobbing missiles at each other really doesn't help when you are looking for resources. And trying to exploit them.

True, but that's how a supposedly intelligent species would bring about its own extinction.

Until you have some one standing on the ground, holding a rifle in his hands and waving the flag, you don't own it.

I see. Don't you think that to be a little bit basic?

ketsuko
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

They have the men to make it really ugly is all I'm saying.

If the US had 1 million bombers and 0 pilots what good are those 1 million bombers? Wold you claim we have the bombers to make it really ugly? They are worthless sitting at home in their base.

reply to post by TDawgRex


It did, but back then we were all basically Americans and proud to be so and felt it meant something. Even the ones who felt that fascism was the way of the future were still Americans. These days, I'm not so sure. There are an awful lot of people who feel that being American is something to be ashamed of and that does things to you when it comes time to think about going off to war.

TDawgRex

OccamsRazor04

TDawgRex
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I was with you until you said "impossible".

No, I said all BUT impossible. Please feel free to read it again.

That means not impossible, just extremely improbable.

Ok, got it.

I must have missed that.

No problem I was guilty of the exact same thing yesterday

Please show me what China has that would allow it to either A) bomb the US mainland via aircraft or B) land troops in the US mainland. I will wait for it.

All warfare is based on deception. China has friends with this capacity, even if and i doubt this, they can't get them there themselves.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


I guess it depends on where the theater winds up being. Are we assuming an invasion of US soil or fighting over in Asia again? If the latter, does it matter that they can't send their men our way? We would be coming to them.

reply to post by Bassago


*Yawn*

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ketsuko
reply to post by elysiumfire

 

It's not that they can't hit us with anything. I think what the poster in question was relying on was MAD. If they hit us with nukes, we hit them back unless they feel their cyberattack capability is enough to scramble our launch ability and keep us from counterattacking.

And then there is the added dimension of space weaponry. Do they have satellites that can knock missiles out of the sky? I doubt it. Do we? I don't know.

edit on 12-1-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

I have heard of the possibility of the US possessing space based weaponry that does not violate the treaty. It is ground based systems that bounce off space based sattelites. Depending on the weather the weapon system I have heard about (if it actually exists now) would be able to destroy thousands of targets per "shot".

reply to post by EA006


This could be true, but highly unlikely. Again, as I stated earlier, we have many friends. Our friends outnumber the Chinese's friends. I don't care who they are. China (and friends) doesn't have a fart's chance in a hurricane of even doing anything remotely disruptive with a conventional military war, which is what they will get if they attack the Philippines.

reply to post by elysiumfire


Basic, maybe.

But true as well.

(I'm talking warfare here, not the give and take that has been going on for the past seventy years)

OccamsRazor04:

How does having nuclear weapons magically allow you to transport troops over the Pacific to the US mainland?

Point out where in my post I mentioned anything about troops. You won't find it because I didn't write about it! I wrote about the projective power of their nukes, not troops. Are you really this incapable of discerning what I meant?

dragonridr

OccamsRazor04

EA006
reply to post by Argyll

 

They can, but they won't. China takes one island, then another, then another. The U.S does nothing.
China has a strong military easily transported to the area. Boots on the ground. The U.S does nothing.
China flips off America.....you see where this is going.

China is an ant right now anywhere outside the Chinese mainland. They have zero force projection power and would be completely unable to land any boot anywhere without US allowance. In 15-20 years this might have changed, but right now China is more than happy to not spend money on force projection and allow the US to spend it's money ensuring the trade security China enjoys.

Well in truth if a battle did occur at first the air war would be costly but eventually id say a month the US would own the skies over China then its over. You can look at Iraq control the skies you control the country. Of course provided id stayed conventional

edit on 1/12/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Absolutely, we would take losses taking the skies. We would use tactics unavailable in our "modern" wars we have fought though, making the task easier .. though losses would certainly be suffered. At that point though we would just bomb them and destroy their entire country. We aren't Germany, we wouldn't be looking to conquer them, we would only look for aquiesence.

EA006

Please show me what China has that would allow it to either A) bomb the US mainland via aircraft or B) land troops in the US mainland. I will wait for it.

All warfare is based on deception. China has friends with this capacity, even if and i doubt this, they can't get them there themselves.

This brings up an excellent point, 3rd party combatants. While I don't see Russia and China as all that friendly what's Putin going to be doing while the fireworks are going off right next door. Probably criss-crossing from NK to SK to Japan and what about Taiwan?

reply to post by Krazysh0t


If that is your final stance on this, Happy hunting. You're in for a shock.

reply to post by ketsuko


Well, lets see how the average American thinks after a couple of cities have been nuked. or have had biological warfare introduced.

I think that China is not above those tactics if they are losing a "Restricted battle".

ketsuko
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I guess it depends on where the theater winds up being. Are we assuming an invasion of US soil or fighting over in Asia again? If the latter, does it matter that they can't send their men our way? We would be coming to them.

Ok, let's assume that the conflict will be in East Asia. The Philippines aren't very big, they can only hold so much. Not to mention they can be easily bombed from the sea. China would have a difficult time defending them without air and naval support. Infantry numbers would be worthless in that regard. Again, China may have the people, but does it tech to arm and utilize all of them? We have drones and non-nuclear ICBM's that we can launch at any Chinese target, whether in reclaimed Philippine territory or in mainland China. We could EASILY soften the Chinese up while gearing for a full scale invasion. As soon as we win the air war over China's mainland, it will just be a matter of time before they lose. Again the casualties will heavily favor the Chinese. We will have some, but it won't be too bad.